Irish abuse report is 'shocking'

[benedictus2]

I attended a Catholic boarding school in the 50s and I have many fond memories of the school. In fact I believe the nuns saved my sanity.

However, after reading some of these posts I realise that I must have been abused! Why? Our matresses were stuffed with coir - a natural fibre which looks a bit like the fibre on the outer husk of a coconut. The location of the Convent was in an area which was rather cold at night in winter and we used to put newspapers between the mattress and the iron beds to insulate and keep us warm (about half a dozen of us did that). Gosh, I was abused and I didn’t know it!!

Off to a $150 an hour weekly psycho therapy for you Cinnette for the next 5 yrs!

 

[redrosetea]

I attended a Catholic boarding school in the 50s and I have many fond memories of the school. In fact I believe the nuns saved my sanity.

However, after reading some of these posts I realise that I must have been abused! Why? Our matresses were stuffed with coir - a natural fibre which looks a bit like the fibre on the outer husk of a coconut. The location of the Convent was in an area which was rather cold at night in winter and we used to put newspapers between the mattress and the iron beds to insulate and keep us warm (about half a dozen of us did that). Gosh, I was abused and I didn’t know it!!

And now? What happens to my fond happy memories of my Convent school?

Oh maaannn! Do I report this to the media? It will sell newspapers - that’s for sure!

My son went to summer camp every year run by the Divine Word priests…He always had a wonderful time

I am not going to let some people turn me against all religious because of what some did

I know when sex abuse charges were first launched in this country there were all kinds of claims that were proven to be false, and people were whipped into a frenzy over them

This was an account at a secular day school with no ties to any religion…Even professions aren’t above reporting things that aren’t true

I recall also one young man gave a story about a well respect Bishop giving him a ring after he was molested,his psychiatrist had regressed him…Ity was all iuntrue and the Bishop was so very kind to this disturbed young man, after being falsely charged

Lives were ruined as well as reputations with no proof at all

People can make all kinds of claims and often do , some for attention, and some because they are disturbed, as well as those that were actual victims

It does no good to act hysterically over things like this…Nor to dwell on them

I take a lot of stuff with a grain of salt when these reports emerge with claims so fantastic that any Dr would tell you someone would be in the hospital or dead if it happened

 

[Sonic]

No we are not naive about abuse. We know it still occurs.

Absolutely… many of us have following these stories for years and no a lot about what is going on… and are deeply concerned.o T assume that we’re naive, and have the audacity to lecture us on that assumption is pure arrogance and nothing more.

This is not the first time these abuses have been brought up. I remember hearing about this on the RTE a couple years ago, and I’ll give them some points for trying to present information from both sides.

Something that has not been brought up yet, but definitely needs to be. Many of the priests, nuns, and brothers in these institutions were themselves inmates in them (or similar institutions) when they were children. Many of them came from abusive situations both inside and outside these institutions. Many of them were brought to these institutions, because there was no other place for them to go (as an act of charity) other than the streets. It was thought that the Church might do much to helping these people by helping them to live holy lives.

It’s sad to say that there was no form of counseling or treatment to correct their behavior. When bad behavior is not properly corrected, then it tends to be accepted as normal or acceptable by those who do it. If nobody teaches an abused person the right way to interact, then more and likely they will act out on the behaviors they were taught. People need to have a little pity for all the people involved.

Also, it needs to be remembered that people who have allocated to the outskirts of society are often treated as nonpersons. People in institutions, hospitals, orphanages, prisons, and nursing home… regardless of who is running those institutions and what religious affiliation they are. Out of sight out of mind. This situation only contributes to these situations.

Also, in the days when these abuses occurred, there was a belief that children would never rise above the station of their parents. If a parent was thief, then the children would all be thieves. It’s not much incentive to improve ones life. It’s actually an invitation to withdraw from society and creates an atmosphere of social failure.

 

[JosieElaine]

Christ was also a God, remember. Like I said to someone else, I cannot “explain” anything, but God does : Man is sinful by nature and in need of a Saviour.

 

[JosieElaine]

Dear Benedictus 2 No, I wasn’t. I believe enforced celebacy is “one” of the probable causes of pedophilia but there are others, one being man’s sinful nature. And the Apostle Paul said it was better to be married then to burn. Some priests are not made for celibacy, it would not be their choice if it was optional. I was told that by some priests themselves. But if they want to be priests they are not given the choice. So they try to remain celibate. Some are able to keep their promise, some are not. For those who are not, I still believe it would be preferable for them to be married than to be pedophiles. Don’t you?

 

[redrosetea]

Dear Benedictus 2 No, I wasn’t. I believe enforced celebacy is “one” of the probable causes of pedophilia but there are others, one being man’s sinful nature. And the Apostle Paul said it was better to be married then to burn. Some priests are not made for celibacy, it would not be their choice if it was optional. I was told that by some priests themselves. But if they want to be priests they are not given the choice. So they try to remain celibate. Some are able to keep their promise, some are not. For those who are not, I still believe it would be preferable for them to be married than to be pedophiles. Don’t you?

How do you explain pedophile protestants that are married? Your argument doesn’t hold water…
and don’t try to claim there are none …all religions have them…there are studies to back up what I am saying

Men are not animals…just because some are pedophiles doesn’t mean they aren’t married or having sex. it means they are mentally disordered

It’s always non catholic who make this claim and turn a blind eye to the problems in their own denomination

You seem to be preoccupied with peoples need to have sex…Some people that are atheist never marry ,and they don’t molest children ,and live as a celibate

 

[JosieElaine]

Dear redrosetea :
The title of this thread is the abuse in the Catholic Church, not in the protestant church or the secular world. I agree there are pedophiles everywhere, but this not what we were asked to discuss. Don’t side-step the issue on the table here.

Pedophilia is a SIN. Priests are grown-up men, well-educated and well aware of the consequences of their choices. No one if “forced” to choose SIN. This is one of Satan’s lies that SIN has come to be called a DISEASE. I strongly believe that before we commit any sin, we are given by God a moment of clarity where we realize what we are doing and we could ask God to come to our help. “Rebuke the devil and he will flee from you.” Man is a Sinner and he chooses to sin.

If, like you appear to say, these pedophile priests are all mentally ill, what are they all doing in the Catholic church?

Like one poster said God “allows” this to happen for a reason. What is this reason I don’t think we understand now. But in no way, shape or form, is it His Will. God never condones any sin. But He sent us a Saviour, and maybe some of those pedophiles need to go on their knees and ask God to heal their sinful souls.

As an aside, I was cruelly sexually abused as a very young child and as an adult I have “chosen” not to abuse anyone. And God, in His unfathomable Love, has given me all the help necessary to be faithful to Him in this area. And He would be faithful to give this help to anyone who ask with a sincere and humble heart.

 

[redrosetea]

Dear redrosetea :
The title of this thread is the abuse in the Catholic Church, not in the protestant church or the secular world. I agree there are pedophiles everywhere, but this not what we were asked to discuss. Don’t side-step the issue on the table here.

Pedophilia is a SIN. Priests are grown-up men, well-educated and well aware of the consequences of their choices. No one if “forced” to choose SIN. This is one of Satan’s lies that SIN has come to be called a DISEASE. I strongly believe that before we commit any sin, we are given by God a moment of clarity where we realize what we are doing and we could ask God to come to our help. “Rebuke the devil and he will flee from you.” Man is a Sinner and he chooses to sin.

If, like you appear to say, these pedophile priests are all mentally ill, what are they all doing in the Catholic church?

Like one poster said God “allows” this to happen for a reason. What is this reason I don’t think we understand now. But in no way, shape or form, is it His Will. God never condones any sin. But He sent us a Saviour, and maybe some of those pedophiles need to go on their knees and ask God to heal their sinful souls.

As an aside, I was cruelly sexually abused as a very young child and as an adult I have “chosen” not to abuse anyone. And God, in His unfathomable Love, has given me all the help necessary to be faithful to Him in this area. And He would be faithful to give this help to anyone who ask with a sincere and humble heart.

You are trying to link pedophilia and celibacy…There is no link…a pedophile is ill…If the church knew they were ill they would never have ordained them

These people are masters at masking their behavior. Ill people are in every denomination…It isn’t like the church advertised to get them, any more than the Protestant churches did… Scandal was badly handled by all religions and families years ago…Almost everyone grew up hearing what would the neighbors think if they knew… about such and such…I guess it was a hold over from Victorian times

God never allows sin, man commits it…God doesn’t allow sin.man does that all by himself with the help from Satan

I am sorry you were an abuse victim, and it is good you have chosen a better path. You are a strong person.Yes these people need to repent but they also need to see a Dr and get help, just repenting won’t do it ,I am afraid…It is more than just sin it is illness that no one fully understands

A pedophile can have sex with a woman and see a child a few minutes later and attack them…They are married men with children, they are someones uncle ,or someones clergy person, or a total stranger, or the guy next door…they are highly educated men, they are found in every field in life, and they are people that are total vagrants, it runs the entire spectrum…They can also be women…look at how many women teachers have abused their male students, and even their female students

If it were just an easy problems it would have been fixed a long time ago…WE don’t even know if there is a fix for a pedophile…It is a tragedy for everyone, including them…because as much as we might dislike them, they are still a child of God. broken and sinful, as they are, and we must pray for them and try to forgive them, as distasteful, as we find them, and it is easier said than done I am afraid…I struggle with this just like everyone else does

 

[JosieElaine]

Dear redrosetea :
I think I may be starting to see your point : you do not see a DIRECT link between pedophilia and priestly celibacy. I am not sure there is one either, at least not a direct one as in cause-and-effect. But I have been asking myself -no proof of that of course- if the fact that priests do not marry, is not considered an attractive shelter for a pedophile, a place where he thinks he might be invisible. It is only a thought that came to my mind. And the undeniable fact is that because when someone complained about abuse, the priest was mainly shuffled around to another parish was not, to a pedophile, something to be considered another attraction. Of course, I think those days of secrecy might be over, as abused people are getting more vocal and society is getting less and less accepting of these escapist behaviours. Just out of curiosity, is the Church doing something now to prevent those perverts from entering her as ministers of God ? and something like AA might be a model for supporting those who truly recognize their problem and want to be healed. I know that in Canada, at least, the priests who were sent to a monastery for penance for six months, almost all of them went back to their pedophilia.

 

[Sonic]

Since the subject of Pedophilia has been brought up in this discussion, I would suggest looking into Father Benedict Groeshel’s writings and talks about the subject of abuse.

amazon.com/Scandal-Hope-Benedict-J-Groeschel/dp/1931709696

Audio Program by Father Groeschel entitled “From Scandal to Hope” can be found at EWTN. Show #44 on this list:

ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?pgnu=2&SeriesID=6132

Here is a direct link to the MP3. I don’t know if it will work:
ewtn.edgeboss.net/download/ewtn/audiolibrary/bookmark2131.mp3

franciscanfriars.com/books/Fr_Benedict_Bio.htm

The term Pedophilia has in many cases been used incorrectly. In most cases of abuse, the term Pedastery is more accurate.

For example…

According to Father Groeschel, Pedophiles are not a separated from the range of sexual attractions. Pedophiles are either heterosexual or homosexual. In other words, Pedophiles are either attracted to very young children of the opposite sex or the same sex. There are heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles. This is something that must be understood in that pedophilia is a descriptive term and not a term designating a separate form of attraction.

 

[redrosetea]

Dear redrosetea :
I think I may be starting to see your point : you do not see a DIRECT link between pedophilia and priestly celibacy. I am not sure there is one either, at least not a direct one as in cause-and-effect. But I have been asking myself -no proof of that of course- if the fact that priests do not marry, is not considered an attractive shelter for a pedophile, a place where he thinks he might be invisible. It is only a thought that came to my mind. And the undeniable fact is that because when someone complained about abuse, the priest was mainly shuffled around to another parish was not, to a pedophile, something to be considered another attraction. Of course, I think those days of secrecy might be over, as abused people are getting more vocal and society is getting less and less accepting of these escapist behaviours. Just out of curiosity, is the Church doing something now to prevent those perverts from entering her as ministers of God ? and something like AA might be a model for supporting those who truly recognize their problem and want to be healed. I know that in Canada, at least, the priests who were sent to a monastery for penance for six months, almost all of them went back to their pedophilia.

The best place for a pedophile to hide is in marriage ,and having a family ,so he has victims to abuse anytime he wants, and this is what happens most of the time…They are married men, with families, and wives…Daddy is the number 1 culprit, and a male relative number 2

You have to remember these people don’t wear a sign saying I am a sexual predator…The church didn’t admit pedophiles knowingly and neither does any place else

There are many safeguards in place we didn’t have in the past starting in the seminaries…All people dealing with children in any form must be screened for a police record, and any acusations of sexual abuse must be reported to the police at once

In the past these men were sent ot a clinic or a Dr for treatment…When the Dr pronounced them cured they were moved…Now to be fair, this all happened decades ago, and there probably wasn’t much of a medical treatment plan or even that much known about this behavior…The Dr probably did think they were cured and the Bishop believed him

I am sure everyone would love a better way to screen for this, but without a police record there just isn’t much to go on, if they haven’t already offended

Hindsight is always 20/20 and in most cases they probably didn’t think these men would be repeat offenders…but it should have been handled better and I am sure all of us wished it had been…but this is ihow all places treated this behavior, it seems

If a boy had said his female teacher had seduced him, people would have probably said you lucky dog, I wish it would happen to me…Or don’t tell anyone just forget it, its over and done with

Society has never been perfect, so we will never have a perfect church or a perfect anything else either

We are in an era where things are brought to the surface and hopefully dealt with, but that doesn’t mean this stuff will be stamped out…I doubt we will ever have an end to sexual abusers any more than there will be an end to other crimes…We just have to be more aware and do a better job protecting children if we can

 

[redrosetea]

Since the subject of Pedophilia has been brought up in this discussion, I would suggest looking into Father Benedict Groeshel’s writings and talks about the subject of abuse.

amazon.com/Scandal-Hope-Benedict-J-Groeschel/dp/1931709696

Audio Program by Father Groeschel entitled “From Scandal to Hope” can be found at EWTN. Show #44 on this list:

ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?pgnu=2&SeriesID=6132

Here is a direct link to the MP3. I don’t know if it will work:
ewtn.edgeboss.net/download/ewtn/audiolibrary/bookmark2131.mp3

franciscanfriars.com/books/Fr_Benedict_Bio.htm

The term Pedophilia has in many cases been used incorrectly. In most cases of abuse, the term Pedastery is more accurate.

For example…

According to Father Groeschel, Pedophiles are not a separated from the range of sexual attractions. Pedophiles are either heterosexual or homosexual. In other words, Pedophiles are either attracted to very young children of the opposite sex or the same sex. There are heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles. This is something that must be understood in that pedophilia is a descriptive term and not a term designating a separate form of attraction.

I would tend to believe Fr Groeschel, given his medical knowledge…I have also heard this stated before

 

[JosieElaine]

Dear redrosetea : What you say makes a lot of sense.
But I will tell you one thing :
When my daughter’s parish priest comes over for supper and then goes down to the playroom to play with my little grand-son and his toys, Grandmother follows the two of them down and I watch him like a hawk. He finds that funny and he teases me about it. Not that he ever gave any sign of being a pedophile. But not under my watch is anyone, priest or otherwise, going to hurt my little boy !

 

[redrosetea]

Dear redrosetea : What you say makes a lot of sense.
But I will tell you one thing :
When my daughter’s parish priest comes over for supper and then goes down to the playroom to play with my little grand-son and his toys, Grandmother follows the two of them down and I watch him like a hawk. He finds that funny and he teases me about it. Not that he ever gave any sign of being a pedophile. But not under my watch is anyone, priest or otherwise, going to hurt my little boy !

You need to watch everyone including family members, friends ,and neighbors, teachers…We can never be too careful

Just try to remember 98% of priest are not molesters and it is the same amount for other religions too

I once heard Fr Corapi say a priest can’t be seen with anyone or people will think the worst…If he is seen with a woman, he is accused of having an affair with her…If he is seen with a man it is assumed it is a gay partner, and if it is a child, it is assumed he is a pedophile…He said it with s smile poking fun at himself, but it is true…They are under a cloud just because they are priests…It is a pity

 

[JosieElaine]

Dear redrosetea :
Of course, you are right. I personally knew several priests (5) who turned out to be pedophiles and never, never, would I have thought that to be the case.
But I also know several priests who are not pedophiles, at least not yet ! But it hurts me to have to be so careful.
And if it hurts me, how much must it hurt them ! I never looked at it under that angle.
But I would feel more charitable toward a priest having an affair or turning out gay than towards one who hurts an innocent child. Can’t help myself !
Coming back to marriage for priests, it is because it is normal and natural for a man and a woman to be together that it would not bother me one bit if priests got married, wheras it would bother me somewhat if he turned out gay, and would devastate me if he turned out pedophile. There is a progression of gravity in the behaviour here … And having a wife is the least objectionable as far as I am concerned …

 

[redrosetea]

I am content to have a celibate clergy…I don’t focus on the sins of a priest more than I do the sins of a pastor, and my g grandfather was a protestant pastor

 

[JosieElaine]

Dear redrosetea :
There is a difference here: if my pastor is guilty of a gross sin, like for example, having an affair and leaving his wife, he will have to resign as a pastor and if he does not have enough moral integrity to do so by himself, the Council of Elders will signify to him that he has to leave.
And the Pastor holds us all responsible as members of our church to see to it that he is a model for us. Of course, he still is a sinner, but he is not to be a scandal to the church. In this, we follow the model of church discipline given to us in the New Testament. Rough and tough, but effective. Our pastor had to submit his own father to the church discipline last fall, and we all cried, but we supported him. We all prayed daily for his father, alone and in groups. After six months of being under such church discipline, his father came back with his wife and was re-admitted to the church.

 

[St_Francis]

The best place for a pedophile to hide is in marriage ,and having a family ,so he has victims to abuse anytime he wants, and this is what happens most of the time…They are married men, with families, and wives…Daddy is the number 1 culprit, and a male relative number 2

I want to clarify two things here. Fathers are *not *the number one culprit. *Maybe *when the groups are broken down like this: Father/father figure; uncle; brother; cousin…

Fathers rarely abuse their own children sexually. What the relatively high number of “father/father figures” refers to is stepfathers and live-in boyfriends, ie, “father figures,” not to real biological fathers. OTOH, biological fathers are often the victims of false accusations in divorce cases

One of the aims of those who want to get rid of the family and replace it with the government is to paint man as violent within their families; thus the conflation of fathers and “father figures.” This is something we must fight against, not play along with. Be careful of whose numbers you are reading, and who is discussing the results.

 

[Cinette]

Dear Benedictus 2 No, I wasn’t. I believe enforced celebacy is “one” of the probable causes of pedophilia but there are others, one being man’s sinful nature. And the Apostle Paul said it was better to be married then to burn. Some priests are not made for celibacy, it would not be their choice if it was optional. I was told that by some priests themselves. But if they want to be priests they are not given the choice. So they try to remain celibate. Some are able to keep their promise, some are not. For those who are not, I still believe it would be preferable for them to be married than to be pedophiles. Don’t you?

Celibacy has nothing whatever to do with paedophilia. How about the many married men who are paedophiles??

 

[Cinette]

Dear redrosetea :
The title of this thread is the abuse in the Catholic Church, not in the protestant church or the secular world. I agree there are pedophiles everywhere, but this not what we were asked to discuss. Don’t side-step the issue on the table here.

Pedophilia is a SIN. Priests are grown-up men, well-educated and well aware of the consequences of their choices. No one if “forced” to choose SIN. This is one of Satan’s lies that SIN has come to be called a DISEASE. I strongly believe that before we commit any sin, we are given by God a moment of clarity where we realize what we are doing and we could ask God to come to our help. “Rebuke the devil and he will flee from you.” Man is a Sinner and he chooses to sin. Of course - you are right - we can always ask God’s help in moments of temptation.

If, like you appear to say, these pedophile priests are all mentally ill, what are they all doing in the Catholic church? All! What all? So all paedophile clergy are to be found in the Catholic Church? How absurd!

Like one poster said God “allows” this to happen for a reason. What is this reason I don’t think we understand now. But in no way, shape or form, is it His Will. God never condones any sin.Of course not - but he does not stop it from happening either…in this way he allows it. But He sent us a Saviour, and maybe some of those pedophiles need to go on their knees and ask God to heal their sinful souls.I can’t imagine what goes on through their minds! Their acts are such an abuse of power. It is horrific.

As an aside, I was cruelly sexually abused as a very young child and as an adult I have “chosen” not to abuse anyone. And God, in His unfathomable Love, has given me all the help necessary to be faithful to Him in this area. And He would be faithful to give this help to anyone who ask with a sincere and humble heart.

Sure. Yes, God heard your prayer - you chose to ask him to help you and he responded.