Irish archbishop horrified by confirmation of unmarked babies' graves [CC]

[Rosebud77]

This is not a hoax. shamed at this thread

Dear ones. I dropped away as I knew what was about to break here in Ireland.

And today I read here that the appalling discoveries of what will be up to 6000 Irish babies buried like so much rubbish is a hoax?

Not so.

This week the Church here in Ireland has been all but destroyed by the findings.

clericalwhispers.blogspot.ie/2017/03/tuam-mother-and-baby-home-everything_3.html

The commission into this has been working for 2 years.

Now we have the names of all the children.

clericalwhispers.blogspot.ie/2017/03/these-were-796-children-who-died-at.html

And each day new revelations from other mother and baby homes run by religious orders

breakingnews.ie/ireland/names-of-dead-infants-at-bessborough-and-roscrea-were-given-to-the-hse-in-2011-780324.html

We need your prayers and that we all face the truth of all this. I work on a big Irish forum, boards.ie and the thread on this would break the heart of Jesus. Breaks mine. I ache with weeping.

Please pray for us here

Please let this thread stand.

 

[panevino]

Does anyone know with some certainty, what standard practice is around the western world for dealing with the remains of aborted babies?

 

[Rosebud77]

Does anyone know with some certainty, what standard practice is around the western world for dealing with the remains of aborted babies?

These were not aborted babies. 36 weeks gestation to 3-5 years old uncovered so far.Buried in a disused extended wastewater facility ie a septic tank

Many died of malnutrition as is recorded on the death certificates signed by medical practitioners.

That has been proved and recorded by independent experts now

 

[MartinJordan]

This is not a hoax. shamed at this thread

Dear ones. I dropped away as I knew what was about to break here in Ireland.

And today I read here that the appalling discoveries of what will be up to 6000 Irish babies buried like so much rubbish is a hoax?

Not so.

This week the Church here in Ireland has been all but destroyed by the findings.

clericalwhispers.blogspot.ie/2017/03/tuam-mother-and-baby-home-everything_3.html

The commission into this has been working for 2 years.

Now we have the names of all the children.

clericalwhispers.blogspot.ie/2017/03/these-were-796-children-who-died-at.html

And each day new revelations from other mother and baby homes run by religious orders

breakingnews.ie/ireland/names-of-dead-infants-at-bessborough-and-roscrea-were-given-to-the-hse-in-2011-780324.html

We need your prayers and that we all face the truth of all this. I work on a big Irish forum, boards.ie and the thread on this would break the heart of Jesus. Breaks mine. I ache with weeping.

Please pray for us here

Please let this thread stand.

Definitely the death of these poor babies and children are not a hoax.

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

irishtimes.com/news/politics/sound-and-fury-overwhelm-rational-political-debate-1.1831900

MJ

 

[epostle]

It appears the Archbishop of Tuam has been duped by fake news.

From the Catholic League:

It was a lie in 2014 and it is a lie in 2017. There is no evidence of a mass grave outside a home for unmarried women operated by nuns in Tuam, Ireland, near Galway, in the 20th century. The hoax is now back again, and an obliging media are running with the story as if it were true.

Any objective and independent reporter would be able to report what I am about to say, but unfortunately there are too many lazy and incompetent reporters prepared to swallow the latest moonshine about the Catholic Church. If there were a Pulitzer for Fake News, the competition would be fierce.

Ireland’s Mother and Baby Commission completed its inquiry into this issue and released a statement on March 3rd about its findings today. The probe was a response to allegations made by a local historian, Catherine Corless, who claimed that 800 babies were buried in a tank outside the former Mother and Baby home that was operated by the Bon Secours nuns.

The statement issued by the Mother and Baby Commission never mentions anything about a mass grave. Having completed a test excavation of the Tuam site, it found “significant quantities of human remains” in most of the underground sewage chambers. “These remains involved a number of individuals with age-at-death ranges from approximately 35 foetal weeks to 2-3 years.”

That’s the story. If there were “mass graves,” not only would the official statement mention it, but so would Katherine Zappone TD, Minister for Children and Youth Affairs; she issued her formal remarks today. She says absolutely nothing about any “mass graves.” Moreover, when the government’s Interim Report was issued on July 12, 2016, it also made no mention of “mass graves.”

“Experts Find Mass Grave at ex-Catholic Orphanage in Ireland.” That is what the Associated Press reported on March 3rd. The author, Shawn Pogatchnik,** offers no evidence and no citation** from the government’s report to prove his allegation.
read more about this hoax

 

[epostle]

What gets me is CatholicCulture.org and Vatican Radio is printing this fake news as if it were true.
IRELAND’S “MASS GRAVES” STORY IS FAKE NEWS

 

[ARSpade]

These were not aborted babies. 36 weeks gestation to 3-5 years old uncovered so far.Buried in a disused extended wastewater facility ie a septic tank

Many died of malnutrition as is recorded on the death certificates signed by medical practitioners.

That has been proved and recorded by independent experts now

It wasn’t a septic tank, it was a pit grave. Rather common in Europe to this day. They built caskets.

The government was running an unmarked grave for kids nearby too, but that’s okay for some reasons.

And, yes, some died of malnutrition and many other old timey childhood diseases because, as much as they don’t like to admit it, Ireland was practically a third world country for a long time. There’s a reason lots of people left the place. That combined with the poor prenatal care of women in crisis pregnancies and these things happen. The infant mortality rate for the unwed mothers the nuns cared for was very high.

It’s not like the nuns were intentionally murdering people.

This whole story just seems like another excuse to whine about the Church.

 

[panevino]

Originally Posted by panevino View Post
Does anyone know with some certainty, what standard practice is around the western world for dealing with the remains of aborted babies?,

These were not aborted babies.

I assume your right. Story would be worse if they were

36 weeks gestation to 3-5 years old uncovered so far.Buried in a disused extended wastewater facility ie a septic tank

disused and had a capping layer of soil /rubble beneath burials? As described here thejournal.ie/human-remains-found-baby-home-tuam-3268465-Mar2017/
Some clarification by the original lady /historian is here alsoirishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/tuam-mother-and-baby-home-the-trouble-with-the-septic-tank-story-1.1823393

Many died of malnutrition as is recorded on the death certificates signed by medical practitioners.

That has been proved and recorded by independent experts now

Some modern arrangements for aborted babies Is described in this article , including “medical waste” which when thought of in the context of abortion all seems to me worse than tuam (and considered acceptable or ignored by general public)
mamamia.com.au/foetal-tissue/

This article Is worth reading also I think, with respect to various comments including malnutrition/mortality
google.com.au/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/eamonnfingleton/2014/06/09/that-story-about-irish-babies-in-a-septic-tank-is-a-media-hoax/amp/

 

[Vouthon]

This is a highly unsettling topic.

I have been naturally horrified by the revelation, courtesy of a local historian, that many children at a home for unmarried mothers under the control of a religious order in Tuam between the years 1925-1961 were buried en masse in an unmarked grave or septic tank.

I have been unable to discern a number of important details regarding this - perhaps these are not known at present, perhaps I’ve simply missed them.

Did the infants die from natural causes and the nuns therefore treated the dead babies with callous disregard? Or, is criminal activity being alleged in the sense that the children died from abuse and/or neglect? Or, worse and far more horrifying still, is this a mass homicide case?

These details are unclear to me based upon the media reports I’ve seen.

Apologies in advance for asking outright such disturbing and dismaying questions but they need to be asked, I feel, so that I can better understand the enormity, nature and scale of what has been perpetrated.

 

[anon98328916]

i found this as i was reading a yahoo article about islamophobia. A comment by someone referring to the former subject matter, decided to jump on this “catholic” atrocity.

Very disappointing how people want to find fault with the catholic church, just to “stir the pot”.

Mj

 

[Crusaderbear]

People need to understand you cannot judge some actions in the past by modern standards. The people involved where doing the best they could given their times and circumstances. I seriously doubt there was any evil intent towards these unfortunate little ones. They died due to their environment.

We should just pray for their souls and the souls of those who tried to do the best they could by them…

 

[anon98328916]

People need to understand you cannot judge some actions in the past by modern standards. The people involved where doing the best they could given their times and circumstances. I seriously doubt there was any evil intent towards these unfortunate little ones. They died due to their environment.

We should just pray for their souls and the souls of those who tried to do the best they could by them…

I agree but the Irish media hate the church in Ireland and thats putting it mildly. Any chance they get at all they love to stir things and everytime people fall for everything the media say. Sadly I just read an article from an Irish website and the comments after it were showing enormous hatred for the church. One in particular comment which I see time and time again went something like ‘I’ll never darken a church again and anyone that still continues to support and attend such an organisation is a hypocrite’. I could almost feel their hatred but for me being an Irish Catholic I love Jesus and His church though to be honest I’m very fearful for the church in Ireland. Please pray for her. Thank you.

 

[anon98328916]

It wasn’t a septic tank, it was a pit grave. Rather common in Europe to this day. They built caskets.

The government was running an unmarked grave for kids nearby too, but that’s okay for some reasons.

And, yes, some died of malnutrition and many other old timey childhood diseases because, as much as they don’t like to admit it, Ireland was practically a third world country for a long time. There’s a reason lots of people left the place. That combined with the poor prenatal care of women in crisis pregnancies and these things happen. The infant mortality rate for the unwed mothers the nuns cared for was very high.

It’s not like the nuns were intentionally murdering people.

This whole story just seems like another excuse to whine about the Church.

I agree…a daily accurate in Ireland. Any chance to get at the church.

 

[panevino]

This is a highly unsettling topic.

I have been naturally horrified by the revelation, courtesy of a local historian, that many children at a home for unmarried mothers under the control of a religious order in Tuam between the years 1925-1961 were buried en masse in an unmarked grave or septic tank.

apart from the septic tank unmarked grave is still done today for aborted babies with public awareness.
I understand the septic tank was not used any longer and capped prior burials? still horrible but, likely not just remains thrown in on raw sewage

I have been unable to discern a number of important details regarding this - perhaps these are not known at present, perhaps I’ve simply missed them.

Did the infants die from natural causes

my understanding is medical reports mention some died of malnutrition. I think the air of the story tries to suggest that the nuns were basically almost torturing them and then tossing them. But it’s seems more likely that they were very under funded and likely overcrowded( not aborting children, trying to get them adopted (rationally? Questionable should of been left with their mums)

and the nuns therefore treated the dead babies with callous disregard? Or, is criminal activity being alleged in the sense that the children died from abuse and/or neglect? Or, worse and far more horrifying still, is this a mass homicide case?

don’t think anyone is suggesting mass homicide

These details are unclear to me based upon the media reports I’ve seen.

Apologies in advance for asking outright such disturbing and dismaying questions but they need to be asked, I feel, so that I can better understand the enormity, nature and scale of what has been perpetrated.

I think the abortions / unmarked garden/medical waste/research in this modern story is reflective and accepted even described a a special place and medical waste is just skimmed over
mamamia.com.au/foetal-tissue/

 

[ShrodingersCat]

Just remember the priests and nuns of the time were products of society. A society in which the church played a large role, but also a society in which those of other religions felt the same way. It is horrid, but I think society as a whole has moved on and as a result the clergy are more aligned to what was always Catholic teaching in this area.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

What gets me is CatholicCulture.org and Vatican Radio is printing this fake news as if it were true.
IRELAND’S “MASS GRAVES” STORY IS FAKE NEWS

THIS IS NOT FAKE NEWS! I am Irish. It is true. I despise the term fake news, it now gets slapped onto any news that an individual doesn’t like.

 

[Ghosty]

I’m a little confused. There are medical records and death certificates for these infants and toddlers? If so, is the outrage over the fact that they were buried or interred in what appears to be a decommissioned stone septic tank?

I’m not trying to belittle the issue, just trying to get a better handle on what exactly is upsetting people. Speaking for myself I don’t find this story to be overly disturbing if the deaths were indeed recorded. A better burial place would certainly be preferred, but if the children were interred and not simply dumped in the sewer, so to speak, then it is mildly troubling but hardly earth shaking. I don’t know what means were available at that time and place to establish a proper grave for each child.

Am I missing an element of the story?

 

[marCork]

Given the nature of the homes, I wouldn’t be too surprised about remains of foetuses and babies up to about a year. Poor education, poor support, poor medical care and poor nutrition provided by the homes means that the number of children who died within the first year would be very high.

It’s the children over a year that need extra focus - were they subject to extreme levels of physical abuse, or was disease and malnourishment rampant? A child over a year is pretty easy to keep from dying - feed them and don’t let them fall from a big height.

It’s the level of cover-up that allowed so many children to die without anyone raising a flag that something might be wrong.

If the bodies had all been buried in individually-marked graves that wouldn’t make it “OK” that an insanely high infant mortality rate went unreported and uninvestigated for so long.

 

[Shattered]

Just asking. In disasters, aren’t mass graves used to prevent further infection and disease? Which would make them necessary? Perhaps that was the procedure the sisters had to follow? There’s no denying that Ireland was in dire poverty. So with all the tuberculous spreading around, not to mention all the flu, whooping cough, measels, polio, pneumonia, all HIGHLY contagious, isn’t it possible the sisters did what they could with what they had, and HAD to do?

There’d been mass graves throughout history.

Here in the U.S. in August of 2015 a construction worker in a small Pennsylvania town found a mass grave that was subsequently linked to that 1918 Flu Pandemic. And over in West Africa the mass graves due to the Ebola outbreak.
To prevent contamination weren’t the corpses quickly buried for sanitation concerns?
Two more quick things: These children had death certificates. How is there a cover-up.
Finally, for what it’s worth, there’s no proof that the septic tank was actually used for sewage/waste and such. Considering there were chambers in it I find it difficult to think they were used for that. Just saying.