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Pfaffenhoffen
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- No.
- Confusing. I do not underrrrrssstand you.
- You did not answer the question. Easier say: “You are right!”
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Dale_M
Guest
Could this be related to the decline in the practice of confession? If everyone presents themselves for the Eucharist, then many will not bother to assess whether they are properly disposed or not. And if they do not question themselves regarding this, they have less incentive to seek out confession.
As long as the dying individual is able to signal acceptance, canon law allows that person to receive the sacrament.
*
844 §4. If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who seek such on their own accord, provided that they manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and are properly disposed.*
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2T.HTM
h/t Michelle Arnold
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saveusfromhell
Guest
google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=commit%20mortal%20sin&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saintaquinas.com%2Fmortal_sin.html&ei=sJboTs6iLs20hAe178DgCA&usg=AFQjCNFcMb-cC3OtyAsGfyl3XNVKuKDbeg&sig2=rNdhUvjRHH0PLw5EiAoGsg
actually i answered your 3rd question but you didn’t seem to understand that either, but i am interested why you think it’s posible not to know your committing a mortal sin?
by the way, what is your first language, is it spanish?
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vincentsrus
Guest
If the Archbishop is unhappy with people turning up at church only when they want to receive a sacrament, then he should be telling parish priests not to perform these rites unless they know the people receiving them are practicing their faith. I know of couples that have been refused marriage in one parish due to lack of attendance, but been married in a neighboring parish without being known at all.
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Luvtosew
Guest
OriginalJS,
I also noticed that when I started going back to Church, no one would be at confession but everyone would recieve communion.
When I quit going to Church, I didn’t go for Christmas or Easter either, I would of felt hypocritical to do that.
althought I’m unable to attend Mass at this time, I still like to go to confession a few times a year.
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
I think you should let the guy laugh…I do not know what the subject is, but in present days, laughing till you fall to the ground is healthy…
Dont take at heart…I do not know what the discussion is !!!
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
The Church stated that no one may say for sure that he is in a state of Grace.
So, the opposite must be true…
Do you know the 3 conditions to have a mortal sin? The first 2 demand “full”…100% certtainty. Can you be sure that you did it 100%?
If you do not mind, I would prefer to remain “incognito” here.
I understand and speak spanish very well.
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trials
Guest
I can understand his frustration. There is a problem with cultural Catholicism here in Ireland. People who go to Mass when they absolutely have to, for the social element, or just for the “hatch, match and dispatch” occasions. Perhaps he hopes to purge the Church of those who do damage from the inside - the “I’m a Catholic, but…” brigade, of which I used to be a member - as in “I’m a Catholic but I don’t believe in contraception, I don’t go to Confession, etc., etc.”
And I suppose it’s two-sided. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if there was just a core group of really faithful believers in the Church, all with the same goal and belief system, all encouraging each other in personal holiness, instead of the mish-mash of New Age, liberal, cafeteria Catholics that we currently have.
However, having been part of the latter group, maybe we would be depriving them of an encounter with God which might be instrumental in their re-conversion to the faith. Maybe the words they might pick up in one homily could speak to their hearts, maybe… But I still understand his frustration, and would liken it to Jesus’ cleansing of the Temple.
And I suppose it’s two-sided. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if there was just a core group of really faithful believers in the Church, all with the same goal and belief system, all encouraging each other in personal holiness, instead of the mish-mash of New Age, liberal, cafeteria Catholics that we currently have.
However, having been part of the latter group, maybe we would be depriving them of an encounter with God which might be instrumental in their re-conversion to the faith. Maybe the words they might pick up in one homily could speak to their hearts, maybe… But I still understand his frustration, and would liken it to Jesus’ cleansing of the Temple.
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saveusfromhell
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stanczyk
Guest
And I’m sure the bishop in question would agree with you, but I just don’t see that as an apt comparison. I don’t care whether we’re talking about pro-death cafeteria Catholics, Christmas-and-Easter Catholics, or subversive “change it from the inside” Catholics, the bottom line is that they are all Catholics, and they have just as much right to participate in this metaphorical temple as any other Catholic. This is a Church governed by law, not personal prejudice.
If a baptized Catholic wants to participate in any of the above, it’s no reason for them to leave the Church, or be asked to leave the Church. So long as they aren’t actively promoting heresy, in which case there is a procedure for their removal, impious Catholics have all the rights and privileges as the pious ones. Because really, who is to judge between the pious and impious, save Christ?
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markomalley
Guest
Of course, his Excellency could be taking this into :
[BIBLEDRB]Titus 3:8-11[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Titus 3:8-11[/BIBLEDRB]
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saveusfromhell
Guest
i think stanczyk you should read this, it may help understand the difference between admonishing the sinner and not judging
google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=catholics%20to%20admonish%20the%20sinner&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CEYQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.catholicity.com%2Fcommentary%2Fshea%2F08409.html&ei=-07vTrfWEcaFhQfalZClCA&usg=AFQjCNHGpoCVtowqjYbcT0fFsj7AEcY7pA&sig2=icNfLZl0ghxhour-h0lujQ
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Elizabeth502
Guest
I.m.o. the Archbishop was issuing a wake-up call to encourage discernment as opposed to rejection. The key words are “maturity” and “belief.” What he is saying is that, if your faith has become so ritualized and separate from regular observance, consider what your faith means to you and whether you believe any of it. As a child complies with external commands, despite not always wanting to, you (technical Catholics) are behaving like children going through the motions. Examine your faith, because if you believe that all that is necessary is “a” sacrament as a “passage,” then you cannot really believe in Catholicism.
Faced with the prospect of leaving that identity behind vs. living that identity, it might occur to some individuals that a minimalist “identity” is a contradiction in terms.
Faced with the prospect of leaving that identity behind vs. living that identity, it might occur to some individuals that a minimalist “identity” is a contradiction in terms.
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odile53
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I’m not of Irish descent, nor have I ever been to Ireland, so I don’t know if this is an ethnic thing. I’m thinking that maybe His Grace was using what used to be called “reverse psychology.” In other words, tell the slackers that they should get out, and next week, they’ll be back in droves? Maybe that was his thinking?
Sure, it could backfire. But then again, it could light a fire under them!
Sure, it could backfire. But then again, it could light a fire under them!
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Holly3278
Guest
I personally think his approach to lapsed Catholics is quite sad. Instead of telling them to have the “maturity” to leave the Church, he should have told them they need to have the maturity to believe what the Church teaches and to practice the Faith. I mean he should have been gentle about doing this of course and it isn’t as simple simply telling someone who has trouble with the faith to believe and practice it but what I am trying to say is basically that instead of telling them to leave the Church, he needs to be encouraging them to stay in the Church and to become active and faithful members of the Church.
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stanczyk
Guest
Well said!
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stanczyk
Guest
I’m well aware of the distinction, and in fact it is precisely what I am doing in this thread. I’m admonishing sinners for the sin of being judgmental and hardening their hearts against impious Catholics.
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saveusfromhell
Guest
okay let me ask you is it okay for these non practising catholics to recieve communion at their own wedding knowing they probably won’t be back till next wedding baptism or funeral they attend
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stanczyk
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Of course not, nobody is suggesting that. Like I said earlier in the thread, there is simply no need for such alarmism, as every parish will have a PreCana or marriage prep program to prepare a couple. You can’t just show up at a Catholic Church and get married. This isn’t Vegas were talking about for crying out loud.
What is at issue is if impious Catholics should be encouraged to leave the Church or come back into the fold. The answer should be obvious.
There is more to “judging someone” than deciding whether or not “they are going to hell.” Honestly, I find your statement a bit confusing, since it is not in the power of a human being to decide such things for others, only for themselves. Hell is a choice made when one embraces sin and turns from God. Judgment is when one evaluates the conduct of others and hardens their hearts against them. It is what Jesus cautioned us against when He said that only he who has not sinned should cast the first stone.
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saveusfromhell
Guest
i have been at maybe 20-30 weddings the last 15 years none of them were or are now practising catholics. this is the norm not the acception. so no your wrong on this again.
i took the last bit about judging out obviously while you were posting because i can see that turning into a circular argument.
i’ll give you a recent example. a womwn recently died of cancer the priest went to the wake and was talking to her son in law an atheist. the son in law made a point of telling the priest he was atheist, yet come holy communion during the funeral son in law gets up as one of chief mourners to recieve.again not even slightly unusual.
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