Irish bishop urges end to celibacy in clergy

[gonesimera]

Former bishop of Derry Edward Daly says allowing the clergy to marry would solve some of the church’s problems…

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A high-profile Irish bishop who tended some of the dead and wounded of Bloody Sunday has called for an end to celibacy in the clergy.

Edward Daly, who was bishop of Derry for nearly 20 years, said allowing the clergy to marry would solve some of the church’s problems. He is the most senior figure in Irish Catholicism to challenge the ban.

The number of Catholic priests in Ireland is in sharp decline as older clergy die out and very few young men choose to take up a celibate life. In some parishes the church has transferred priests from Poland and the developing world to fill the gap.

“There will always be a place in the church for a celibate priesthood, but there should also be a place for a married priesthood in the church,” he said on BBC Radio Ulster.

“I think priests should have the freedom to marry if they wish. It may create a whole new set of problems but I think it’s something that should be considered. I’m worried about the decreasing number of priests and the number of older priests. I think it’s an issue that needs to be addressed, and addressed urgently.”

Daly accepted he might be out of step with current Vatican thinking but said he was “not engaged in a popularity contest”.

He said that during his time as a bishop he found it “heartbreaking” that so many priests or prospective priests were forced to resign or were unable to get ordained because of the celibacy issue. Many young men who had once considered joining the priesthood turned away because of the rule, the cleric said.

Daly, now 77, became a recognised figure around the world in 1972 when he was seen waving a bloodied white hankerchief in front of British paratroopers in Derry during Bloody Sunday. The sight of the then priest during the shooting of 13 civilians in the city became one of the most enduring images of the Northern Ireland Troubles.

During the 25-year conflict Daly was a fierce critic of the IRA’s armed campaign and a supporter of the peace process.

guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/13/irish-bishop-celibacy-clergy

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Former bishop of Derry Edward Daly says allowing the clergy to marry would solve some of the church’s problems…

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images...s/2011/9/13/1315906266576/Edward-Daly-007.jpg

A high-profile Irish bishop who tended some of the dead and wounded of Bloody Sunday has called for an end to celibacy in the clergy.

Edward Daly, who was bishop of Derry for nearly 20 years, said allowing the clergy to marry would solve some of the church’s problems. He is the most senior figure in Irish Catholicism to challenge the ban.

The number of Catholic priests in Ireland is in sharp decline as older clergy die out and very few young men choose to take up a celibate life. In some parishes the church has transferred priests from Poland and the developing world to fill the gap.

“There will always be a place in the church for a celibate priesthood, but there should also be a place for a married priesthood in the church,” he said on BBC Radio Ulster.

“I think priests should have the freedom to marry if they wish. It may create a whole new set of problems but I think it’s something that should be considered. I’m worried about the decreasing number of priests and the number of older priests. I think it’s an issue that needs to be addressed, and addressed urgently.”

Daly accepted he might be out of step with current Vatican thinking but said he was “not engaged in a popularity contest”.

He said that during his time as a bishop he found it “heartbreaking” that so many priests or prospective priests were forced to resign or were unable to get ordained because of the celibacy issue. Many young men who had once considered joining the priesthood turned away because of the rule, the cleric said.

Daly, now 77, became a recognised figure around the world in 1972 when he was seen waving a bloodied white hankerchief in front of British paratroopers in Derry during Bloody Sunday. The sight of the then priest during the shooting of 13 civilians in the city became one of the most enduring images of the Northern Ireland Troubles.

During the 25-year conflict Daly was a fierce critic of the IRA’s armed campaign and a supporter of the peace process.

guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/13/irish-bishop-celibacy-clergy

Marriage in Protestant Clergy has solved their problems? I think that it is better to optimize what we have: nuns and laity.

 

[Abba]

The world does NOT need more ‘priests’ that want to split their devotion between God and the world. We do need more priests and we should pray to Our Lord to send more shepherds to tend his flock.

Besides, that is a mute point, since he is a senior priest he should know that and his comment is scandalous especially because of his seniority.

 

[ProVobis]

The number of Catholic priests in Ireland is in sharp decline as older clergy die out and very few young men choose to take up a celibate life. In some parishes the church has transferred priests from Poland and the developing world to fill the gap.

So why not find out why the Polish culture produces an overabundance of priests before these ages-old instant “remedies” are re-proposed in others?

 

[cemiller]

The world does NOT need more ‘priests’ that want to split their devotion between God and the world. We do need more priests and we should pray to Our Lord to send more shepherds to tend his flock.

Beside, that is a mute point, since he is a senior priest he should know that and his comment is scandalous especially because of his seniority.

Priestly celibacy is a doctrine not a dogma. It could theoretically be changed if needed. I don’t think it should, but it could be. I don’t think it’s scandalous for him to speak about it, as long as he’s still obeident to the doctrine. There are a lot of people that believe that allowing Priests to marry would increase the number of Priests in the world, which is probably true. The real question is if it’s worth it or not. Right now Priests can focus on God and the Church. They can spend as much time as they need to ensure their flock is well cared for. With a wife and family it is obvious that they would not have as much time to devote to the Church’s needs as their time and effort would be divided. I for one don’t think it would be better.

 

[Abba]

No. It will create more and weaken the witness to the faith etc, etc, etc,

We call them deacons. We do not need more Catholic Priests not anything less. A Catholic parish is not a service center that needs more employees or something. We need to pray fervently.

As a matter of fact, let’s say a little prayer now:

His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI prayer for priests:

Prayer for Priests

LORD JESUS CHRIST,
eternal High Priest,you offered yourself to the
Father on the altar of the Cross and through the
outpouring of the Holy Spirit gave your priestly
people a share in your redeeming sacrifice.
Hear our prayer for the sanctification of our priests.
Grant that all who are ordained to the ministerial
priesthood may be ever more conformed to you,
the divine Master. May they preach the
Gospel with pure heart and clear conscience.
Let them be shepherds according to your own Heart,
single- minded in service to you and to the Church
and shining examples of a holy,simple and joyful life.
Through the prayers of the Blessed Virgin Mary,
your Mother and ours,draw all priests and the flocks
entrusted to their care to the fullness of eternal life where
you live and reign with the Father and the Holy Spirit,
one God,for ever and ever. AMEN
BENEDICTUS PP. XVI

It sure would and the Church in her wisdom and with centuries of experience is well aware of them.

It is quite a sacrifice but it is one that the ones who are call to do it uphold like a brilliant light to God and all the world is illuminated by their presence, sacrifice, witness, devotion, dedication which all serve to inspire many faithful and strengthen and guide them. People consider a lot of things but, if people considered the priesthood and turned away just because it calls to live a celibate life I have to question their calling to the priesthood in the Catholic Church.

 

[Brendan]

Marriage in Protestant Clergy has solved their problems? I think that it is better to optimize what we have: nuns and laity.

I would agree that marriage in the Protestant communities has not really solved any problems. Suburban parishes have a glut of clergy, while the poor and rural parishes are even worse off than ours.

Imagine when a bishop needs to send not only a priest, but his family, to a distant rural parish! Protestant spouses have been very reluctant to make such moves.

As far as optimizing the laity ( nuns are technically laity), that has some promise, but does little to relieve the shortage of priests.

Rather, we must look at what countries\dioceses\parishes that generate vocations are doing and emulate it everywhere.

 

[BrushedByAngels]

I think if more married men became deacons, it would solve some of the problem

 

[ConstantineTG]

I agree, I think married men should be admitted to the priesthood. My current priest is the best priest I’ve ever had, and he’s married. And all these accusations of “splitting time between the priesthood and the world” is false. Do you think celibate priests do nothing but pray, celebrate Mass, give the Sacraments, and do other priestly duties? They operate on a similar work schedule as most of us, unless of course they belong to Religious Orders. But secular priests do their 9-5 and will only work more if necessary (sick call, schedule Mass in the evening or other duties).

He does have a point about the age of priests. The average age of Roman Catholic priests is about 60, or close to it. The average age of priests in Ukraine where there are married priests, 37.

 

[Brendan]

I think if more married men became deacons, it would solve some of the problem

Not really. It’s a different call and a different ministry.

A Deacon cannot say Mass, hear confessions or Annoint the Sick.

There is no substitute for the priesthood.

Where the Deacon can assist is in bringing Communion to the sick, assisting with Sacramental prep, or preaching the homily so that the priest does not have to prepare one.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Not really. It’s a different call and a different ministry.

A Deacon cannot say Mass, hear confessions or Annoint the Sick.

There is no substitute for the priesthood.

Where the Deacon can assist is in bringing Communion to the sick, assisting with Sacramental prep, or preaching the homily so that the priest does not have to prepare one.

In the Latin Rite, the deacon can also baptize (as an ordinary minister) and witness a marriage.

 

[Cristiano]

Priestly celibacy is a doctrine not a dogma. …

Priestly celibacy is not a doctrine it is a discipline, and you are quite correct when you say that it can be changed and that people should be allowed to discuss about changing it. However, the caveat is that it should be allowed as long as it is done in a manner that does not bring scandal to the Church.

 

[corsair]

Sounds as if our Irish brethern are enroute to joining our Austrian brethern.

 

[Warrior1979]

Priestly celibacy is not a doctrine it is a discipline, and you are quite correct when you say that it can be changed and that people should be allowed to discuss about changing it. However, the caveat is that it should be allowed as long as it is done in a manner that does not bring scandal to the Church.

Ditto.

The bishop isn’t doing anything wrong by bringing up the matter for discussion.

Marriage in Protestant Clergy has solved their problems?

I think this is the wrong example to use. It would be more proper to use the various Orthodox Churches for comparison.

 

[ringil]

With all due respect to this Bishop I (just a humble layman) think he is sowing division. Given his perceived authority I don’t see this public airing of his personal beliefs as helpful at all.

 

[malphono]

Pfaffenhoffen;8357714:

Marriage in Protestant Clergy has solved their problems?

I think this is the wrong example to use. It would be more proper to use the various Orthodox Churches for comparison.

Actually, no, it wouldn’t be. The differences are huge. Protestants appear to have no restrictions, so it seems that a minister may marry at will, just like any non-minister. OTOH the Orthodox, along with the ECCs/OCCs (and this was also the case in the Latin Church until the discipline was changed), do not “allow priests to marry” but rather they can (and do) ordain married men to the priesthood. Another big difference.

 

[Speedypizza]

I myself am very conflicted on this issue. Both sides seem to have very good points. My feeling, and it is little more then that, is that celibacy is something good to have in the priesthood. I also am not as worried about priests wives as I am about a priest with 5 children. I am not sure it would be fair to his children for him to be away so much. On the positive side I think that a married priest with children might be better able to talk to married people and give good advice on families if they have one of their own. I cannot see a priest having many words of wisdom for me on how to be a father to my 6 year old.

Maybe some of the Orthodox can tell me what their experience has been with their priests in regards to having time to be a father and if they feel that their advice is better on family matters?

 

[ConstantineTG]

I myself am very conflicted on this issue. Both sides seem to have very good points. My feeling, and it is little more then that, is that celibacy is something good to have in the priesthood. I also am not as worried about priests wives as I am about a priest with 5 children. I am not sure it would be fair to his children for him to be away so much. On the positive side I think that a married priest with children might be better able to talk to married people and give good advice on families if they have one of their own. I cannot see a priest having many words of wisdom for me on how to be a father to my 6 year old.

Maybe some of the Orthodox can tell me what their experience has been with their priests in regards to having time to be a father and if they feel that their advice is better on family matters?

As an Eastern Catholic, I already mentioned that I regard my current priest as one of the best I’ve had as a pastor. I don’t really attribute it to him being married, but more of seeing that marriage has not diminished his ability to be a good priest, as some would claim.

The only problem I see is that in many predominantly Roman Catholic places, the culture would need to shift dramatically to accommodate having a married priesthood. In Ukraine for example, priests are highly regarded in the culture and there are cultural norms with women dating seminarians. Western countries do not have that in their societies so it can be pretty messy.

Our ECF Forum regular and top contributor, Alexander Roman, I believe is the son of a Ukrainian Catholic priest. If you wish to ask for his perspective on the matter.

 

[Iotaunum]

Firstly, I have to say I was not shocked to hear this on the news today. Anyone who has talked to any number of priests, bishops and laity in Ireland today will realise in just how much of a minority those who want to keep Priestly celibacy are. So this statement is pretty much a reflection of the thoughts of a vast majority today in Ireland. I have talked with Catholics I know who attend daily Mass, give out communion, do the readings etc in the parish and when the subject of Celibacy comes up I am shocked to hear that all of them think priests should be allowed to marry. Not only that, but half of them throw in the statement that they would have no objection to women priests either!

Bishop Daly said:

---

“I think priests should have the freedom to marry if they wish. It may create a whole new set of problems but I think it’s something that should be considered.”

Dr Daly said he found it “heartbreaking” during his term as Bishop when priests, or prospective priests, were forced to resign or unable to join the priesthood because of the celibacy rule.***"

Well with due respect to the bishop, I do not find it heartbreaking when priests are “forced” to resign over the issue. I find it heartbreaking that in this age there are a large number of priests who have vowed celibacy and yet cannot remain faithful to that vow nor see the great grace and privilage which Celibacy actually is to a priest.

Also, candidates for orders are/were solemnly warned by the bishop at the beginning of the ceremony:

"You ought anxiously to consider again and again what sort of a burden this is which you are taking upon you of your own accord. Up to this you are free. You may still, if you choose, turn to the aims and desires of the world (licet vobis pro artitrio ad caecularia vota transire). But if you receive this order (of the subdiaconate) it will no longer be lawful to turn back from your purpose. You will be required to continue in the service of God, and with His assistance to observe chastity and to be bound for ever in the ministrations of the Altar, to serve who is to reign."

Men have a choice. The media and even those ignorant of the doctrine paint it in such a way as to make it appear as though a man destined to become a priest is forced to be celibate, when in fact they have as much choice as anyone. They are free to get married, or beome a priest/religious. Both are vocations. Marriage requires dedication, perserverance and hard times as well as fidelity. The same is demanded of the celibate priesthood.

Bishop Daly said: “There will always be a place in the church for a celibate priesthood, but there should also be a place for a married priesthood in the church,”

The problem with that is that it does not work in practice. Given the choice to be celibate and live the married life most candidates would chose the latter, going on what the majority opinion seems to be here. In my opinion things would go the same way as every choice/option which was given by Rome. Communion in the hand started as an abuse - the Popes tried to stop it, then gave in to an indult. Now we see it everywhere. In fact large numbers of people have been refused communion or made to look foolish for wanting to recieve in the mouth, kneeling. The same with altar boys. Every where young boys were lined up to serve mass. Now, when girls were permitted as an option we see nothing but girls on the altar. No boy wants to even serve here now because it is seen as a girls role - that is no joke either. The same with the lay eucharistic ministers. If a priest does not call certain members of what some call the “trouser suit” (“Pant suit” ) brigade on a Sunday, they are in the bad books and reported promptly to the bishop. (yes, this actually happens). I believe the celibacy issue would go the same road. Once celibacy becomes a mere choice, it think the death knell will already be ringing loudly to signal another great loss.

The bottom line is Priests and bishops - even laity- are faced with a vast reduction in vocations. Their answer however, I believe, is a cure worse than the disease. The loss of vocations is not due to celibacy. The children need taught catechism once again in schools, and taught why priests are celibate. If you ask a school pupil here today (as they did on the news) they have no objections to married priests since they don’t even know why they are celibate to begin with. It is as though they have been done wrong and had their rights violated when they are not allowed to marry. “There’s nothing wrong with being married” was an answer given by one child (17/18 years old) who just demonstrated that they did not know anything about the doctrine.

Lastly, I believe the remedy is a return to tradition - which has growing vocations - and a return to traditional catholic education of children, who will be the next generation to decide their vocation. The bishop talks of men who were put off by celibacy, but a large number of priests left due to the reforms of the 60’s and a vast quantity of candidates who would have no problem with celibacy were put off becoming priests due to the liberal seminaries and the reforms.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The problem with that is that it does not work in practice. Given the choice to be celibate and live the married life most candidates would chose the latter, going on what the majority opinion seems to be here. In my opinion things would go the same way as every choice/option which was given by Rome. Communion in the hand started as an abuse - the Popes tried to stop it, then gave in to an indult. Now we see it everywhere. In fact large numbers of people have been refused communion or made to look foolish for wanting to recieve in the mouth, kneeling. The same with altar boys. Every where young boys were lined up to serve mass. Now, when girls were permitted as an option we see nothing but girls on the altar. No boy wants to even serve here now because it is seen as a girls role - that is no joke either. The same with the lay eucharistic ministers. If a priest does not call certain members of what some call the “trouser suit” (“Pant suit” ) brigade on a Sunday, they are in the bad books and reported promptly to the bishop. (yes, this actually happens). I believe the celibacy issue would go the same road. Once celibacy becomes a mere choice, it think the death knell will already be ringing loudly to signal another great loss.

This is just not true. It not like we have a dearth of celibate men in the Eastern Rites. If we do not have them, where do we get our bishops? Also monasticism is one of the reasons why men choose to be celibate in the East. There is a number of Religious Orders that require vows of celibacy (and this will not change) so there will still be celibate priests, even if assuming that all diocesan priests will be married.