Irish bishop urges end to celibacy in clergy

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Credendum said:
I must not have been clear enough. What I meant is that marriage in the priesthood opens the door for another kind of sin to creep in, namely, recreational sex. Of course that’s not the purpose of marriage, and that’s not to say priests will do that, but the chances of it happening will be greater than they are now, excluding church scandals.
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St. Paul already answered this long ago for you:

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 7:9[/BIBLEDRB]

Would you rather have those that do not have control over their urges to pursue other ways outside of marriage? Those who can control their urge will have no problem. But those who can’t, what now? Celibacy doesn’t solve that.
 
BrushedByAngels said:
I think if more married men became deacons, it would solve some of the problem 👍
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Well, marriage is begrudgingly allowed to deacons, I suppose as a concession to their human weakness. If you read the fine print of the diaconal contract (at least in my diocese) a deacon is not allowed to remarry if his wife is killed or dies. If that prohibition of remarriage were lifted more men might consider the diaconate.
 
StAnastasia said:
Well, marriage is begrudgingly allowed to deacons, I suppose as a concession to their human weakness. If you read the fine print of the diaconal contract (at least in my diocese) a deacon is not allowed to remarry if his wife is killed or dies. If that prohibition of remarriage were lifted more men might consider the diaconate.
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That rule is universal in the Apostolic Churches. That won’t change as a rule.
 
cemiller said:
Priestly celibacy is a doctrine not a dogma. It could theoretically be changed if needed. I don’t think it should, but it could be. I don’t think it’s scandalous for him to speak about it, as long as he’s still obeident to the doctrine. There are a lot of people that believe that allowing Priests to marry would increase the number of Priests in the world, which is probably true. The real question is if it’s worth it or not. Right now Priests can focus on God and the Church. They can spend as much time as they need to ensure their flock is well cared for. With a wife and family it is obvious that they would not have as much time to devote to the Church’s needs as their time and effort would be divided. I for one don’t think it would be better.
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I’m glad the bishop has raised the question. The danger of the faithful being bereft of the Eucharist is too important not to examine all our options.
 
StAnastasia said:
I know. It limits the appeal of the diaconate, sort of like a safety valve.
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At some point one has to trust in the plan of God. You don’t get called to serve the Lord without the Lord looking out for you.

In my case, I can’t even see why I’d want any other woman than my wife. If faced with that difficult situation, the only reason I can see I’d marry again is to find one to take care of the kids. And that is an unfair reason to marry someone.
 
ConstantineTG said:
At some point one has to trust in the plan of God. You don’t get called to serve the Lord without the Lord looking out for you. In my case, I can’t even see why I’d want any other woman than my wife. If faced with that difficult situation, the only reason I can see I’d marry again is to find one to take care of the kids. And that is an unfair reason to marry someone.
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I can easily imagine a young deacon falling in love with another woman if his wife dies or is killed. If sex was not considered sinful within his first marriage, I can’t see a reason for it to be considered so in a second marriage.
 
I quote the bishop:
"I think priests should have the freedom to marry if they wish. It may create a whole new set of problems but I think it’s something that should be considered.
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Oh my, yes, it would create an even worse set of problems…
  1. priests (and/or their wives) using artificial birth control
  2. priests getting divorced
  3. priests having premarital sex when dating
  4. parishes paying for the support of priests’ large families. Will parishes have a say in how many children the priest will have, and what their standard of living will be?
  5. the conflict between the priest’s vow of obedience to his bishop vs. considering the wishes of his wife and family
  6. the conflict between his obligations to the parish and to his family. Who will be his priority?
In my opinion, either way – if married men were allowed to become priests or if priests were allowed to marry (there is a difference) – to allow married clergy would be the end of Catholicism as we know it.
 
jpjd said:
In my opinion, either way – if married men were allowed to become priests or if priests were allowed to marry (there is a difference) – to allow married clergy would be the end of Catholicism as we know it.
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I know several married men with families who have been ordained and served parishes. Are you suggesting that they mark “the end of Catholicism as we know it”?
 
jpjd said:
  1. the conflict between the priest’s vow of obedience to his bishop vs. considering the wishes of his wife and family
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How is that any different from a corporate executive’s vow to his board of directors and “the wishes of his wife and family”? I know executives who are forced to move around the country every three or four years at the behest of their companies. Should they be required to be celibate? Why or why not?
 
StAnastasia said:
I know several married men with families who have been ordained and served parishes. Are you suggesting that they mark “the end of Catholicism as we know it”?
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On a world-wide basis, yes. Especially in the very secular United States.
 
StAnastasia said:
How is that any different from a corporate executive’s vow to his board of directors and “the wishes of his wife and family”? I know executives who are forced to move around the country every three or four years at the behest of their companies. Should they be required to be celibate? Why or why not?
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I do not equate a corporate executive with a priest. The former is a job, the latter is a vocation.
 
jpjd said:
I do not equate a corporate executive with a priest. The former is a job, the latter is a vocation.
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I didn’t suggest an equation. I’m arguing that if corporate executives can juggle career with family, priests could juggle career with family. Many lawyers spend less time with their young children than do the married priests I know.
 
jpjd said:
On a world-wide basis, yes. Especially in the very secular United States.
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You still haven’t answered my question about why sex is good in a first diaconal marriage, but not in a second. Is that because there is in fact no coherent answer?
 
StAnastasia said:
Evidently it’s not a “solution” in Ireland, or in much of Europe, or parts of the United States.
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Sure it is. All the bishop has to do is call up the various superiors and ask them to provide pastors for his parishes. They will come.
 
So far I’ve seen a lot of posts on this thread that go something like “this heretic is trying to put an end to priestly discipline, nothing should separate priests from having a loving relationship without our Savior”

But my take on this is, the idea isn’t that bad. No one’s said so far than Eastern Catholic Priests and deacons aren’t in “perfect union with our Savior” Priests getting married is actually, dare I say, a good idea.
 
Will_S said:
Sure it is. All the bishop has to do is call up the various superiors and ask them to provide pastors for his parishes. They will come.
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Thanks. I didn’t know it was as easy as that! Oregon will be pleased to learn this.
 
jpjd said:
In my opinion, either way – if married men were allowed to become priests or if priests were allowed to marry (there is a difference) – to allow married clergy would be the end of Catholicism as we know it.
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Hyperbole. Catholicism is not just the Roman Church but the 22 other Churches in communion with Rome as well, many of them with married clergy. I rather doubt it would be the “end of Catholicism” as we know it. For sure we’d see changes in the Roman Church, but I doubt it would be the end of the world.
 
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