Irish government firm but diplomatic in reply to Vatican [CWN]

[hawkeye]

Yes I suppose, but I don’t see abortion, same sex marriage, euthanasia etc; coming from the throne of God… the responsibility is with the Church, and they do need to get their act together.

I just feel that the EU is using money to blackmail other countries into signing up for things they wouldn’t normally sign up for…

 

[Scoobyshme]

No I do not forget . But this is men and women deliberately and willingly abusing children.

There is no sin outside of one’s free will. In order for it to have been a sin, they would have had to abuse the children deliberately and willingly.

And as I have posted before, it is NOT a small minority.
Itis in fact a sizable majority.

Please provide proof. Cite the total number of priests, as well as the total number of priests who abused children, as well as your source.

And please stop blaming the media for what has in fact been accurate and fair reporting! Based on the reports commissioned and published by reputable leaders of the Irish community. There has been and is no need to exaggerate. Sadly

The media have exaggerated and misreported many things with regard to abuse in the Church, painting the whole Church as guilty, when in fact, a very small minority of priests were even accused. And gullible, simple-minded folks swallowed it all hook, line, and sinker, including some who regard themselves as Catholic.

There is grave danger on all sides in blaming satan for what we willingly do. We are not puppets.

Saying that Satan’s influence was involved in these sins is not removing blame from anyone. Everyone has a free will, unless he is insane. However, to reject the notion that Satan isn’t involved is to give him more influence and power. This issue is not merely a secular issue. It is a spiritual one even more so.

My question remains; why do these people who claim to be of Christ, do such abominable things? is sex their god?

Why do you commit the sins you do? Why do I commit the sins I do? Again, we are in a battle. We were born with Original sin, and while Baptism washed that sin away, the effects of it remain, namely, darkness of intellect and weakness of will. Keep in mind that of the first 12 Catholics (the Apostles, hand-chosen by Christ!), one was Judas Iscariot, another was Peter (who denied Him three times), and the rest, except for St. John, deserted Him like cowards during His passion and death! Do you claim to be sinless? Or that your sins are somehow “better” than the sins of these poor priests? If you end up in hell (hope not!), are you going to point to priests who end up there and say, “Yes, I committed mortal sins, but not THOSE mortal sins!”? LOL Do you think that’s going to help your situation any? 'Fraid not.

 

[Scoobyshme]

Wow, not only was that one of the best posts I’ve read addressing the sex-abuse scandal, but I realized it was from Northport AL! I go to school in Tuscaloosa, Roll Tide!

Roll Tide! I belong to St. Francis, too!

 

[Hopemercy]

**QUOTE=hawkeye;8359918]There are many good Catholics here, and many faithful priests carrying their cross for the sins of others.
In Ireland many got caught up with money, wealth & greed, the housing market went off the richter scale with the young unable to purchase homes because of the rip-off merchants we have here.
Now their greed has caught up with them, the celtic tiger is a pussycat, the housing market and the economy over-all is suffering.
We aren’t poor, we have food, a roof over our heads and clothes on our backs, many’s a child or family in other parts of the world would feel like millionaires if they had that.
Many are poor here though, poor to the things of God, and do they want to know ?not many, they put their faith in money instead of God.
Anyway, lets not forget our Confirmation vows, to be soldiers of Christ, otherwise they were only hollow words.**Ephesians 6:10 Finally, brethren, be strengthened in the Lord, and in the might of his power. 11 Put you on the armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the deceits of the devil. 12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places. 13 Therefore take unto you the armour of God, that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and to stand in all things perfect. 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of justice, 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace: 16 In all things taking the shield of faith, wherewith you may be able to extinguish all the fiery darts of the most wicked one. 17 And take unto you the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit (which is the word of God).

This is a complete non sequitur and totally irrelevant to the situation, Especially as the Church is the richest of all here.

Clergy abuse has nothing to do with riches; are you blaming the people for being abused?

I woindered if I had strayed from the thread!

It is the clergy and religious who you should be teaching.

Someone who left the Church opined that the devil had entered it and I grow more and more to agree with that idea.

Your words are an insult to the abused, frankly.

But that too is common here now.

 

[SanAgustin]

Offical figures leaked from the Vatican state as 76 % of clergy and religious were abusers.

You still haven’t provided any sources for this outlandish and impossible figure (76%!!!).

Can I interpret your silence on the matter as admission it was a made up number?

 

[hawkeye]

This is a complete non sequitur and totally irrelevant to the situation, Especially as the Church is the richest of all here.

Clergy abuse has nothing to do with riches; are you blaming the people for being abused?

I woindered if I had strayed from the thread!

In your original post you seemed to be asking for an explanation, then when one was given you didn’t like the response.

I think it’s unfair to blame every priest for the goings on of others, if that’s your yard-stick then lets blame the eleven +Jesus for Judas.

It is the clergy and religious who you should be teaching.

You seem to dismiss Ephesians, even though it was quoted twice, it is both a physical and spiritual battle we are in, whether you accept it or not.

Someone who left the Church opined that the devil had entered it and I grow more and more to agree with that idea.

Most likely, think Pope Paul vi famously said " the smoke of satan has entered the Church, back to Ephesians.

Your words are an insult to the abused, frankly.

And you have no bother tarring every priest with the same brush ? I find that’s un-fair as-well, totally unjust.
My heart goes out to victims, but lets not castigate them all, ( so there are no good Priests out there ) ?

But that too is common here now.

I’m not defending offending priest’s…as above.
The reason I brought up the money thing is because I grew up and saw first-hand how Ireland changed, especially with all the money being pumped into the Republic.
massive new roads, over-priced houses, now the whole thing has collapsed around us, the people became too materialistic and spiritually barren. IMO & the whole priestly scandal was the final nail in the coffin for many.
I’m not leaving the Church, John stood by the Cross of Jesus with His mother to the bitter end. I’ts painful I’ll admit, but Jesus never said it would be easy, if people want to leave that’s there choice, I’ll die a Catholic…:knight1:

 

[pepipop]

Initially, I thought Enda Kenny’s remarks to the vatican were way off - and of course were greatly admired by the unionists up north. Now, I see this as being a positive way forward between the Irish government and the CC as negotiations and discussions will be taking place between both, which will hopefully iron out a lot of the issues. I pray and hope that this will actually strengthen links between the CC and the Irish government in the longer term and I pray to St Patrick and Brigit that this will be the case.