Is abortion a litmus test for someone to be a catholic?

[st_lucy]

Yea but the victim and the robber are two seperate indviduals the pregnant mother is more ambigiuous. The point i was trying to make about womankind is that we always hear stories about women who were coerce to get an abortion by a male or they were threaten to go through with the pregnancy. Of course a father has great influence on the development of their child but a father cant empathize with what it means to be pregnant. Their decision to have children is important but the femals decision when to have children is more important because they have to go through the physical exercision.

That makes absolutely no sense. As a women who has very risky births I would have to say that I would never have the right to opt for an abortion instead. Its like saying because I am the the stay-at-home mom and since I have more physical exercise involved than my husband I can opt to kill one or more of my children at any given time. I mean he can’t possible empathize with what it means to be a stay-at-home mom, since I had to give birth to them and stay-at-home with them I can do what ever I want. Right?

 

[Sheeniac]

That’s a very flimsy claim to superiority, that the term “dogma” is not used in Protestant denominations. If that makes you happy, I’m glad for you.

Claim to superiority? Huh? All I did was address your very specific point. No need to get snippy with me. It is possible to engage in discussion here without getting overly-emotional, isn’t it? Perhaps there was more going on than meets the eye in this thread, but I was casually skimming, came across the dogma discussion, and replied.

Not only is the term dogma not used by Prots, for the most part the concept isn’t. And I think that’s a VERY important thing to consider, not flimsy in the least. Good grief - the existence of dogma causes consternation within some Catholic circles.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Yea but the victim and the robber are two seperate indviduals the pregnant mother is more ambigiuous.

There’s an old saying, “You can’t be ‘just a little bit’ pregnant.” The point is, pregnancy is unambiguous – a woman is or she isn’t and no two ways about it.

The point i was trying to make about womankind is that we always hear stories about women who were coerce to get an abortion by a male or they were threaten to go through with the pregnancy.

I’m working with a couple of state legislators to grant such women the right to sue the abortionist – it’s his responsibility to be sure his patient is both fully-informed and willing.

Of course a father has great influence on the development of their child but a father cant empathize with what it means to be pregnant.

He can’t?

I hate to break it to you, but many men have sympathetic labor pains.

Their decision to have children is important but the femals decision when to have children is more important because they have to go through the physical exercision.

The decision to have children is one thing. The decision to kill the child is another thing entirely.

 

[melensdad]

It strikes me that no matter what arguments are made, the idea of being Catholic and Pro-abortion are not compatible.

 

[vern_humphrey]

It strikes me that no matter what arguments are made, the idea of being Catholic and Pro-abortion are not compatible.

Tertullian summed it up neatly around 200 AD. “In our case, a murder being once for all forbidden, we may not destroy even the fetus in the womb, while as yet the human being derives blood from the other parts of the body for its sustenance. To hinder a birth is merely a speedier man-killing; nor does it matter whether you take away a life that is born, or destroy one that is coming to birth. That is a man which is going to be one; you have the fruit already in its seed” (Apology 9:8 [A.D. 197]).

But there seem to be some Catholics who haven’t got the message.

 

[melensdad]

But there seem to be some Catholics who haven’t got the message.

Are they really Catholics?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Are they really Catholics?

I wouldn’t accuse anyone of not being a Catholic, when they claim to be.

But as a general rule, I would say that when one rejects such a basic and fundamental teaching of the Church and embraces such a grisly thing as abortion – even if only in the mind – one has separated oneself from the Church in a very real sense.

 

[LJN21]

I can give plenty of examples - and I am not name calling and putting down those who actually care about human life - I am putting down the fanatics who actually are “pro-death”. I am totally pro-life - I am for the mother’s right to live when she has an ectopic pregnancy unlike the “pro-life/pro-death” fanatics. That’s one example, there would also be the situation of a grave threat to the mother’s life during pregnancy.

How much more arrogant can one get.

There are completely moral ways of dealing with an ectopic pregnancy that dont’ risk the life of the Mother and you know that.

Being pro-life is believing ALL life is sacred not just Mommy’s life. Stop hiding behind your pro-death stance calming to be pro-life.

 

[estesbob]

How much more arrogant can one get.

There are completely moral ways of dealing with an ectopic pregnancy that dont’ risk the life of the Mother and you know that.

Being pro-life is believing ALL life is sacred not just Mommy’s life. Stop hiding behind your pro-death stance calming to be pro-life.

Jack seems to hijack every thread about abortion into a discussion on ectopic pregnancies where he takes great delight in lecturing us using big words and the marvelous insights he has gained being a Dr.

 

[LJN21]

Jack seems to hijack every thread about abortion into a discussion on ectopic pregnancies where he takes great delight in lecturing us using big words and the marvelous insights he has gained being a Dr.

I don’t even understand why someone would think ectopic pregnancy even a relevant argument for abortion.

 

[jack_hawkins]

Jack seems to hijack every thread about abortion into a discussion on ectopic pregnancies where he takes great delight in lecturing us using big words and the marvelous insights he has gained being a Dr.

not at all - there’s several issues I have with the “pro-lifers”
since there is a considerable amount of self-deception and evasion on the topic of ectopic pregnancy I am concentrating on that
they may be “big words” to you, but they are just the proper terminology to you - whether or not they impress you is neither here nor there
if people find insight disturbing it is they who need to examine themselves, not me

 

[estesbob]

I don’t even understand why someone would think ectopic pregnancy even a relevant argument for abortion.

It is a very common tactic to try and change the subject and/or try and paint pro-life proponents as heartless fanatics.

 

[jack_hawkins]

I don’t even understand why someone would think ectopic pregnancy even a relevant argument for abortion.

that lack of understanding is precisely the issue

 

[jack_hawkins]

It is a very common tactic to try and change the subject and/or try and paint pro-life proponents as heartless fanatics.

there’s certainly some heartless fanatics who call themselves “pro-life”
ectopic pregnancy is extremely relevant to the subject of abortion as expounded by the fanatics

 

[jack_hawkins]

How much more arrogant can one get.

There are completely moral ways of dealing with an ectopic pregnancy that dont’ risk the life of the Mother and you know that.

Being pro-life is believing ALL life is sacred not just Mommy’s life. Stop hiding behind your pro-death stance calming to be pro-life.

I wish you’d get up to speed with the issues
all methods (except "expectant) of dealing with ectopic pregnancies involved killing the embryo
face facts

 

[estesbob]

there’s certainly some heartless fanatics who call themselves “pro-life”
ectopic pregnancy is extremely relevant to the subject of abortion as expounded by the fanatics

Not really-in fact you are the only one who seems to think it should be bought up each and every time abortion is discussed The best bet for those in these discussions is to ignore your attempts to hijack the thread.

 

[LJN21]

I wish you’d get up to speed with the issues
all methods (except "expectant) of dealing with ectopic pregnancies involved killing the embryo
face facts

I am up to speed on this issue and I’m not going to debate it with you. You obviously are convinced of your own mental superiority on the issue, nothing would be achieved of by the argument.

“Don’t argue with a fool. The spectators can’t tell the difference.”

 

[st_lucy]

I am up to speed on this issue and I’m not going to debate it with you. You obviously are convinced of your own mental superiority on the issue, nothing would be achieved of by the argument.

“Don’t argue with a fool. The spectators can’t tell the difference.”

I agree. I have chosen to just ignore jack, my only thought every time I see him on these threads is, I cannot believe he is a real dr, since he is on here 24 hrs a day telling us how we “pro-lifers” have an agenda. Not much time for patients, eh.

 

[jack_hawkins]

I agree. I have chosen to just ignore jack, my only thought every time I see him on these threads is, I cannot believe he is a real dr, since he is on here 24 hrs a day telling us how we “pro-lifers” have an agenda. Not much time for patients, eh.

I can’t believe many posters here are even Christian - and?
my reasons for not practising are personal and private - any decent Christian would not jump to the conclusion I was lying but then I see many people here who do not confrom to decent Christian behaviour
how unsavoury - instead of answering someome’s objection rty character assassination
yet another reason why so-called “pro-lifers” lack Christian charity and the spirit of Christ

 

[Angela_Tate]

“This thread temporarily closed pending moderator review”.