Is atheism a religion

[Damian]

And why would that be relevant to the subject of this thread?

I’ll leave this to the fair-minded readers to see if my responses are as ridiculous as you appear to believe they are. I don’t think they are as unintelligent to understand what I was talking about or addressing.

 

[Damian]

the latter is Atheistism

Well there’s a new term to use now.

All my position of atheist comes down to the fact that theists can not demonstrate their claims and just argue in logical models. So how do you tell the difference between fantasy comic books and science books? Both are internally logically consistent correct and have their logical models in reference to reality as well. So if you’re going to hang your hat on claims about reality that are all only internally logically consistent arguments, but can not actually be demonstrated or found in reality in any way, you can not distinguish between fantasy and reality statements now. I’m fine with logical arguments for a position about reality, but all that does is tell you where to look in reality for your conclusion to see if its actually the case or not. Once the apologetic finds their terms ends up breaking the logical argument, they just have to redefine the terms and fix the logical argument. All they’re doing is updating the parameters of A and B in the logical argument A + B = C to fit their desired C result. So fine, I’ll give you all the logical arguments you want. But what is justified true belief to hold about reality is what reality demonstrates to be the case, not your untested logical models of reality. That’s how you demonstrate the difference between fantasy and reality. But according to the theistic model, they can’t tell the difference if you use their process of verification of a logical model of reality.

 

[SunshineGrandma]

I do not think it’s bad they get together. I said it’s different than it used to be.

And the reason for saying it is to answer the OP that I believe atheists are a religion because 1) they meet regularly to discuss their “beliefs” 2). They are organized 3). They have moved into putting their “beliefs” into action 4). They want others to join in their beliefs 5). They proselytize

I don’t know why atheists are so defensive when people say they have evolved into a very formalized structure.

 

[MPat]

This is how I see the difference between belief and knowledge claims.

So, now “convinced” again stopped meaning “persuaded” and started to mean “certain”.

I wonder if that is not precisely why you used a word with two meanings like “convinced”…

Of course, it shows that here we have an obvious “red herring”.

I don’t use the word “faith”. This is why I don’t use “Faith”.
Faith is not belief or hope. Faith is the excuse you use for holding a belief about reality when you have no good reason to hold that position.

Oh, really…?

You do not use the word “faith”, and that is why you actually used it once in each of those (and some later) sentences?

Of course you use the word “faith”. You simply can’t handle the case of an atheist wondering if, perhaps, God does exist. And you try to offer an irrelevant and silly distraction to us - or, perhaps, mostly to yourself.

I’ll leave this to the fair-minded readers to see if my responses are as ridiculous as you appear to believe they are. I don’t think they are as unintelligent to understand what I was talking about or addressing.

You know, I suspect that actually saying what “world view” (if not “religion”) is supposed to be, and connecting your sayings to that definition would be more useful.

Of course, if you can’t actually give a definition and stick to it (perhaps with modifications - but explicit ones), and give an argument that does not lead to absurd conclusions (like the conclusion that Christianity or Islam are not “religions” or “world views” either), there isn’t much left for you to do, but offer silly distractions for us - or for yourself…

All my position of atheist comes down to the fact that theists can not demonstrate their claims and just argue in logical models.

And all that has nothing to do with the subject of the thread. The question “Is atheism a religion?” (or “Is atheism a world view?”, if you wish) is completely independent of questions like “Is being an atheist a good idea?”.

 

[niceatheist]

I don’t meet other atheisds, I’m not a member of an organization. So what am I?

 

[blackforest]

Being an atheist is the default position everyone is born to.

I appreciate you clarifying your position so well and reiterating that atheists are not a monolith. Given the historic and cultural predominance of religion and religious beliefs worldwide, however, I’d question whether atheism is the “default.” Human beings are meaning-seeking creatures who seek and employ religious beliefs to make sense of the complicated mysteries of life and death. It seems like culturally speaking, religion has long been the default for societies. As for whether or not you’re “born to” it or it just develops, that gets more complicated. Small children are developmentally unable to distinguish the imaginary from reality, so it would be easy for them to come to supernatural beliefs on their own. (And yes, we people of faith by necessity have to imagine what we cannot see).

What the “default” is presents an interesting question, and I’m not sure I have straight answers.

 

[blackforest]

What you’re describing is a sub-culture of atheist spokespeople to whom Chris Hedges refers as the “new atheists.” They are a very specific breed of narrow-thinking atheists espousing scientism and other absolutist dogma while overtly expressing their prejudices against people of faith.

While they certainly exist and can be quite vocal, it’s no more fair to view them as ambassadors of atheism any more than to say that Protestant televangelists represent the Catholic faith.

 

[SunshineGrandma]

If you share a common belief that God does not exist, you are an atheist.

What is a theist that doesn’t attend church?

 

[niceatheist]

That’s no more a belief than baldness is a hairstyle. You’re going to have to do better than that.

 

[SunshineGrandma]

Sorry, you lost me.

Do Atheists share a common belief that there is no God?

Do you, an atheist (I assume by your username) have the same beliefs as other atheists?

 

[Damian]

All secular governments are atheistic because they don’t have a religious government. They allow for all groups, including religious people to the table to discuss how to create a just society though. You don’t find that in religious governments because one of the defining identities of religion is to be tribal, us-vs-them, god-vs-devil, etc. Secularist governments are inclusive. You’re allowed to have a voice at the table, but that does not mean that anyone has to respect your position or take it seriously though.

 

[SunshineGrandma]

“You’re allowed to have a voice at the table but that doesn’t mean your opinion will be respected or taken seriously”

An opinion that won’t be respected or taken seriously is not inclusive.

 

[Damian]

I acknowledge that we have a built in need for ceremony. When ever we are in a heightened state of emotion, we need a physical ritual for release to work through that emotional state. That’s why we kiss photos of loved ones, talk to tomb stones of our loved ones, hit the ground out of frustration, relax by lighting candles, calming exercises, etc. We never out grow this. We built upon this need for psychological release by rituals. That’s how I see that these rituals were around from the beginning. Then due to tribalism, we started creating our groups for our accepted ceremony expressions for emotional release and our need to have an answer to the unknown and viola you have religion.

 

[SunshineGrandma]

I have found Catholicism to be the opposite. I am called to reach out and interact with those I have nothing in common with and who can’t do anything for me.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

I do not think it’s bad they get together. I said it’s different than it used to be.

Yes, you said it was different in a pejorative manner. First, you were unhappy that they were getting together to affect change in the public square. You’ll find that secular individuals and organizations that tackle things like religious displays in public that the current tack is to make sure secular displays are displayed alongside them (which is more than fair).

And the reason for saying it is to answer the OP that I believe atheists are a religion because 1) they meet regularly to discuss their “beliefs” 2). They are organized 3). They have moved into putting their “beliefs” into action 4). They want others to join in their beliefs 5). They proselytize

You’ve described more than a few non-profits.

I don’t know why atheists are so defensive when people say they have evolved into a very formalized structure.

You don’t know why because they aren’t defensive when they organize in one way or the other. Being part of an organization with others of similar ilk in no way makes it a religion.

 

[Damian]

Because every absurd position is dismissed. If you can present your position as something to be seriously considered, then it will win over people by its merits, regardless of the source it came from. But at least in secular societies, we allow every good and bad idea to be discussed at the table, regardless of the group it came from. Now compare that to societies where they are ran by the religious; catholic, muslim, jewish, any religion. Name me one society that was ran by a religion that didn’t codify the law of the land to silence other groups through pain of death or kicking them out of the conversation some how and removing their voice.
That is one defining difference between a religiously oriented society and a secular society and how you can tell the difference. I don’t mean religious societies that are built around a codified belief in the supernatural, but religious in practice. So governments that were not associated to an official religion but used the exact same play book that religious governments do. Change the deity to the head of state or the government but operate exactly the same way to control the people. Create an us vs them, deity vs devil, identity. Outlaw blasphemy against the state/deity/church. Promotion of fascism and dictator leadership. Infallibility of state/church leadership. Declarations of miracles and state/religious run news. None of this comes out of a secular state with a secular constitution and secular values because no idea or person or organization is held sacred or infallible. Every idea is open for discussion and to be tossed out if it is found to be a bad idea in concept and/or in practice.

 

[Bradskii]

Gee, there’s always so much nonsense posted in these atheist threads. Here’s a little story:

‘Do you believe in gods?’
‘Me? Nah, I’m an atheist’.
‘Oh, OK. Wanna another beer?’

The End.

Now I’m off with a lot of other like-minded people to sing and chant and worship the one who was sent to us to lead us out of the wilderness. It must be a religion as far as some people here are concerned. I’ll let you know if we win later.

 

[stoplooklisten]

Hi everyone. So I was wondering if atheism is a religion. If not, what is it?

Everyone has a religion. Religion is what defines our worldview, morality, purpose, sense of history, sense of the future.

See the Wikipedia article for “List of religious populations”. Link: List of religious populations - Wikipedia

The category for irreligious, atheist and unaffiliated is #3 behind Christianity and Islam and ahead of all the others.

 

[SunshineGrandma]

I find it interesting myself. Here’s a conversation from two Thanksgivings ago:

Me - “hey, bro-in-law, hows it going?”
BIL - “pretty good. I have been doing these meet ups with my atheist group. We laugh and say we’re like a church group. I’ve been bringing (son) along too”
Me - I see. Pass the sweet potatoes.

Not the end.

BIL on Facebook touting his “unbelief”.
BIL stops to visit on his way through our city and brings up topic attacking religious viewpoints on hot topic issues.

I guess it’s who you know. He’s obviously not the cool “can I get another beer atheist” and neither are his meet-up companions. Unfortunately.

 

[SunshineGrandma]

I think you have me mixed up with another poster. You keep telling me what I said and meant even though I didn’t say it or mean it.

I agree about the non-profit connection. I would add sports fanatics in there as well.

I still contend that when like-minded people gather on a regular basis, discuss their beliefs, and want others to know and share their viewpoint, claim people who don’t think like they do are ______, it has become a religion. Their religion.