Is being anti homosexual anti christian?

[GreenJeans]

So we should depatholgize cannibalism?

A value system based on whatever animals do is fine does not sem to be much of a values system at all.

Is there a moral or natural law problem with cannibalism? If so, what is it?

 

[gardenswithkids]

how can you differeniate acts of sexual expression and same sex attraction. human beings are sexual beings and express human bonding thru acts of sexual intercourse. the issue of sex and marriage is moot, because homosexuals arent allowed to be married.

Human bonding rarely expresses itself through sexual activity. Sexual unions reflects the “two become one” bonds of marriage. Friendships do not bond by sexual activity. One thing rarely mentioned in discussions of homosexuality: sexual tension enters into same-sex friendships, altering the nature of friendship.

Moral restrictions guide everyone’s sexual activity, not just homosexuals. Most sexual attractions should not be acted upon. Almost everyone is sexual attracted to someone who is somehow off-limits.

Contrary what you wrote, homosexuals can marry–they can even marry another homosexual if the other person is not of the same sex. Marriage does not reflect the relationship between Christ and Christ, or between the Church and the Church. The Bible uses the marital union to tell of the relationship between Christ, the Bridegroom and His bride, the Church. The issue of sex and marriage is not moot–it is central to Christianity.

 

[feetxxxl]

You are thrashing, Dear. Simply thrashing. The quote from Romans shows that Paul was struggling with what he knew to be sin. Slavery? Please. I have forebears who were mutilated and whose lives were forever damaged in the fight against it.

Here. Give yourself some breathing room and take a break. On me: :hug3:

i apolgize for obtuse method of expressing that… in regards to knowing what is of god and what is not, or what is a sin or what is not. according to romans 1:20 that knowledge is the same for believers and non believers.

it is becoming apparent, because of the difficulty that people are having answering my three questions, that romans, the book that was responsible for inditing homosexuality a sin, for the last millenium. that very same book will be the reason, that that inditement is expunged so that believers no longer will be compelled to look on homosexuality as a sin… regardless of how uncomfortable it makes them feel.

in regards to your answer your issue is that using contraceptives is trying to subvert god’s intent of conception.( personnally i believe that no one or nothing can subvert god’s will…my youngest brother being conceived in spite of the fact that my mother religously used a diaphram.) that you are trying to be god. but isnt that the intent of the rythym method. isnt it about the spirit behind the action not necessarily the the action itself. isnt that the understanding that jesus brought with his covenant and why the law is limited? does that spirit of the action come against the fruit of the spirit and the spirit of christ. or if contraception is used in an attempt to be good stewart’s of our lives. that is an individual personal decision from the heart.

homosexuality is about people who have a mutual, attraction, respect, and love for each other who are involved in human bonding. two people becoming one flesh. human bonding carries the understanding that the sum is greater than the individual parts. that two people committed to each other is greater than two people living seperate lives. surely there is a significant difference between those who have same sex relations in the name of human bonding and those who do it in the name of shame based lust. the same could be said for heterosexual relations.

for those who believe different about homosexuality i have asked for witness. because it is by witness in fellowship that that belief is tested . so far there has been no expressed witness.

here again its not the action but the spirit behind the action.

 

[PauloFreire2]

So we should depatholgize cannibalism?

A value system based on whatever animals do is fine does not sem to be much of a values system at all.

Do you put homosexuality in the same category with cannibalism? If so, I question your value system.:crying:

 

[PauloFreire2]

Oi. I also suffered from Freud for years. Later, I had the misfortune of being educated as a Priest in the Episcopal Church during the vogue of Bultmann and all manner of sexual “liberation.” Took me half a generation to recover from that and todiscover the divine and natural moral law. WHAT a relief!

I’m sorry. I was trolling. No, my degrees are in History and Health Administration. I teach World History to 10th Graders. Sorry.

 

[hosemonkey]

I’m sorry. I was trolling. No, my degrees are in History and Health Administration. I teach World History to 10th Graders. Sorry.

I don’t dislike homosexuals, I dislike what they DO! I dislike someone trying to tell me that unnatural acts are natural. We struggle with the scourge of AIDS because homosexuals chose to engage in unnatural acts. Does that make me less of a Christian? I hate the sin, I try to love the sinner.

 

[wanner47]

Do you put homosexuality in the same category with cannibalism? If so, I question your value system.:crying:

Sorry to jump in, but you were the one who started the comparison by saying, “Well, homosexuality occurs in nature, so it must be natural.”

 

[PauloFreire2]

"Sorry to jump in, but you were the one who started the comparison by saying, “Well, homosexuality occurs in nature, so it must be natural.”

You’re forgiven for jumping in. I’m referring to the moral judgment the guy was making. Cannibalism today is suggestive of murder and atrocity. Comparing homosexuality to it isn’t just flat wrong, it’s violently anti-gay, which is sinful.

 

[PauloFreire2]

I don’t dislike homosexuals, I dislike what they DO! I dislike someone trying to tell me that unnatural acts are natural. We struggle with the scourge of AIDS because homosexuals chose to engage in unnatural acts. Does that make me less of a Christian? I hate the sin, I try to love the sinner.

Well, you and the others here are anchored in your Catholic doctrines, so there’s no point in pursuing this much further. I just think it’s illogical to argue that although we see homosexuality in the animal kingdom, and think nothing of it, we consider it a sin in homo sapiens. It’s obvious to me we share animal instincts, no matter how lofty we might come to consider ourselves. Moreover, even from a religious perspective, Jesus never said squat about homosexuality. Sure, Paul did, but Paul didn’t know Jesus, personally.

 

[hosemonkey]

Well, you and the others here are anchored in your Catholic doctrines, so there’s no point in pursuing this much further. I just think it’s illogical to argue that although we see homosexuality in the animal kingdom, and think nothing of it, we consider it a sin in homo sapiens. It’s obvious to me we share animal instincts, no matter how lofty we might come to consider ourselves. Moreover, even from a religious perspective, Jesus never said squat about homosexuality. Sure, Paul did, but Paul didn’t know Jesus, personally.

Whoa! In your profile you claim to be Catholic, so what’s all this jazz about being anchored in “your Catholic doctrines.” Aren’t these YOUR Catholic doctrines too? Animals possess no moral responsibility, animals have no immortal souls to be concerned with, we do. You don’t know what Jesus said about homosexuality because no one wrote anything down, but St. Paul’s pronouncements on the subject seemed to be met with approval by the rest of the Church.

 

[feetxxxl]

Question 3) The spirit of homosexuality is related the spirit of contraception. Both separate sex from the life giving power of human reproduction. They bring lust into a loving relationship. The spirit of “lust and death” fights against the Spirit of “Love and Life”. Most human sexual relationships mix love and lust together, which makes it harder to see the lust clearly. Having won a few battles for love and life against the spirit that promoted contraception in my own marriage, I see more clearly that what I battled against was a principality that does not want either children or humans to exist. God makes humans in His image, and that which hates God also hates humans.

Homosexuals encounter an evil spirit that doesn’t want life to flow out of love because that evil spirit hates life, love and humanity. Take St. Paul’s and St. John’s advice—look back to the beginning of creation. God made us male and female so that human life would flow forth from our love. I don’t know if that answers your questions now, but that’s my witness. I believe it and I live it. Because my husband and I live it, we now care for seven beautiful children made in the image and likeness of God.​

I hope my last few posts answered the questions you asked. I must now go and take care of those little images and likeness of God. (They also bear a striking resemblance to their earthly father and me, but they look nothing like puppies. )

it is becoming apparent, because of the difficulty that people are having answering my three questions, that romans, the book that was responsible for inditing homosexuality a sin, for the last millenium. that very same book will be the reason, that that inditement is expunged so that believers no longer will be compelled to look on homosexuality as a sin… regardless of how uncomfortable it makes them feel.

in regards to your answer, your issue is that using contraceptives is trying to subvert god’s intent of conception.( personnally i believe that no one or nothing can subvert god’s will…my youngest brother being conceived in spite of the fact that my mother religously used a diaphram.) that you are trying to be god. but couldn’t that same motive be said of the intent of the rythym method. isnt it about the spirit behind the action not necessarily the the action itself. isnt that the understanding that jesus brought, with his covenant and why the law is limited? does that spirit of the action come against the fruit of the spirit, and the spirit of christ. or maybe contraception is being used in an attempt to be good stewart’s of ones life. this is an individual, personal decision from the heart.

homosexuality is about people who have a mutual, attraction, respect, and love for each other, who are involved in human bonding. two people becoming one flesh. human bonding carries the understanding that the sum is greater than the individual parts. that two people committed to each other is greater than two people living seperate lives. surely there is a significant difference between those who have same sex relations in the name of human bonding and those who do it in the name of shame based lust. the same could be said for heterosexual relations.

for those who believe different about homosexuality i have asked for witness. because it is by witness in fellowship that that belief is tested . so far there has been no expressed witness.

here again its not the action but the spirit behind the action.

previously i sent this message to the wrong person my apologies.

 

[blessedtoo]

for those who believe different about homosexuality i have asked for witness. because it is by witness in fellowship that that belief is tested . so far there has been no expressed witness.

You were given “witness” way back on the first three pages of this thread. Goofyjim replied countless times with his testimony. Does his “witness” not count because he has chosen to walk with Christ and remain chaste?

How about the “witness” I provided? Do these examples hold no weight?

All of the “couples” that I have know who have been in long term relationships still carry on outside sexual activities, often with their partner’s knowledge. Monogamy is not something the homosexual community favors.

My experience after working with many homosexual men and women for years is that numerous partners (and for men, often numerous anonymous partners) is the norm.

 

[hosemonkey]

it is becoming apparent, because of the difficulty that people are having answering my three questions, that romans, the book that was responsible for inditing homosexuality a sin, for the last millenium. that very same book will be the reason, that that inditement is expunged so that believers no longer will be compelled to look on homosexuality as a sin… regardless of how uncomfortable it makes them feel.

in regards to your answer, your issue is that using contraceptives is trying to subvert god’s intent of conception.( personnally i believe that no one or nothing can subvert god’s will…my youngest brother being conceived in spite of the fact that my mother religously used a diaphram.) that you are trying to be god. but couldn’t that same motive be said of the intent of the rythym method. isnt it about the spirit behind the action not necessarily the the action itself. isnt that the understanding that jesus brought, with his covenant and why the law is limited? does that spirit of the action come against the fruit of the spirit, and the spirit of christ. or maybe contraception is being used in an attempt to be good stewart’s of ones life. this is an individual, personal decision from the heart.

homosexuality is about people who have a mutual, attraction, respect, and love for each other, who are involved in human bonding. two people becoming one flesh. human bonding carries the understanding that the sum is greater than the individual parts. that two people committed to each other is greater than two people living seperate lives. surely there is a significant difference between those who have same sex relations in the name of human bonding and those who do it in the name of shame based lust. the same could be said for heterosexual relations.

for those who believe different about homosexuality i have asked for witness. because it is by witness in fellowship that that belief is tested . so far there has been no expressed witness.

here again its not the action but the spirit behind the action.

previously i sent this message to the wrong person my apologies.

Why do you feel compelled to validate a mortal sin and disgusting perversion? Because it is sinful, the “gay” world is not a happy place. Man is made for woman and woman is made for man. It is insulting for anyone to suggest otherwise. You call evil good and good evil. I stand with St. Paul.

 

[goofyjim]

Some therapies do little good for any disorder so I’m not sure how to respond. If you mean there is no way to overcome the disorder then I disagree. I’ve friends who have overcome the disorder. I’ve heard the testimony of many who have overcome it. However, it is a strong disorder and not everyone who tries to overcome is successful. But those who endure until the end, as the Apostle says, and keeps on getting up to lead a sinless life will be saved.

CDL

For those who experience same gender attraction there is only the requirement to persevere in chastity not convert to opposite gender attraction. They are not leading a sinful life based on attraction and therefore have nothing to be healed of.

 

[mercygate]

i apolgize for obtuse method of expressing that… in regards to knowing what is of god and what is not, or what is a sin or what is not. according to romans 1:20 that knowledge is the same for believers and non believers.

it is becoming apparent, because of the difficulty that people are having answering my three questions, that romans, the book that was responsible for inditing homosexuality a sin, for the last millenium. that very same book will be the reason, that that inditement is expunged so that believers no longer will be compelled to look on homosexuality as a sin… regardless of how uncomfortable it makes them feel.

. . . deleting some text here to meet length limit for posting

. . . isnt that the intent of the rythym method. isnt it about the spirit behind the action not necessarily the the action itself. isnt that the understanding that jesus brought with his covenant and why the law is limited? does that spirit of the action come against the fruit of the spirit and the spirit of christ. or if contraception is used in an attempt to be good stewart’s of our lives. that is an individual personal decision from the heart.

homosexuality is about people who have a mutual, attraction, respect, and love for each other who are involved in human bonding. two people becoming one flesh. human bonding carries the understanding that the sum is greater than the individual parts. that two people committed to each other is greater than two people living seperate lives. surely there is a significant difference between those who have same sex relations in the name of human bonding and those who do it in the name of shame based lust. the same could be said for heterosexual relations.

for those who believe different about homosexuality i have asked for witness. because it is by witness in fellowship that that belief is tested . so far there has been no expressed witness. . .

You must be very young.
Do you say that we have expressed no witness because we witness to something other than palsy-walsy buddy-hood? We’re witnessing like crazy, and we are doing it in peace and charity and with reason. The fact that we do not buckle under to unreasonable and easily refutable claims doesn’t mean there is no witness.

No one disagrees that heterosexual relations outside of marriage share the label “shame based lust”. Has anyone here said that heterosexual adultery, contraception, cohabitation, fornication or masturbation is dandy? Plenty of sexual activities besides homosexual ones are on the list of unchastity.

But the pile-up of half arguments with which you defend homosexual relations is a confused conglomeration of mixed matters.

In the natural law view of human sexuality, both physical and psychological complementarity is required for the unitive aspect of sexual expression. The “oneness” of human union is incomplete without both the male and female components. Since human sexuality is both unitive and procreative, openness to procreation (whether or not it is likely or even possible) must be present in sexual intercourse for the coming together to be what is required: a natural human act of intercourse. Otherwise it becomes what Paul describes as one of the “unfruitful works of darkness.”

No: NFP is NOT contraception (nor is it as risky as the old rhythm method). No sexual act is thwarted, subverted or defrauded when a couple foregoes intercourse because of sound medical, psychological, or financial reasons. Read *Humanae vitae. *It gets better with every pass.

The questions you ask are common. Christopher West in his book Good News about Sex and Marriage handles many of these questions about human sexuality, intercourse, homosexuality, masturbation and contraception in quick Q&A format. GET THIS BOOK! You will at least have a better grip on the QUESTIONS even if you don’t like the answers.

Setting what Paul refers to in Romans 7 as ‘the law of God’ (in which he delights) against the spirit of the heart as if they are in conflict is wholely artificial. In the converted soul, they are the same thing. Paul says it is the *flesh, *not the *spirit *that is at war with the law of God. Be careful using Romans to justify an antinomian position. It will not support such a position except if used out of context.

Paul also clearly distinguishes ‘the law of God’ from Mosaic law. In today’s Gospel reading, when Jesus instructs the rich young man to keep the commandments, the commandments he lists are the social ones – written on the heart of all men: murder, adultery, fraud, honoring your parents. In one way or another, homosexual acts participate in violating at least 3 of these four commandments, if not the first (and a case can even be made for that when people knowingly pass along AIDS without warning).

 

[hosemonkey]

Amen! Well said.

 

[PauloFreire2]

“Why do you feel compelled to validate a mortal sin and disgusting perversion?”

These are just your opinions. Perhaps there are certain aspects of your lifestyle and character that others would consider ‘disgusting perversions’. Or, are you ***perfect? ***Just so say, and I’ll believe you.

“Because it is sinful, the “gay” world is not a happy place.”

If it’s unhappy, which it isn’t, it would be because of age-old, societal persecution.

“Man is made for woman and woman is made for man.”

Then why did God create homosexuality? Why did He reason, “I’ll create it in animals, and consider that okay. But in humans, it will be a horrific sin for which I will punish those who indulge it.”? Is God irrational? I don’t think so.

“It is insulting for anyone to suggest otherwise.”

Then get accustomed to being insulting. The world is full of perspectives that clash with yours.

“You call evil good and good evil.”

And you speak violence in the name of your decency and goodnes.

“I stand with St. Paul.”

Yeah, Paul, who ‘needed’ his young ***male ***companions so desperately, all the time.

 

[hosemonkey]

“Why do you feel compelled to validate a mortal sin and disgusting perversion?”

These are just your opinions. Perhaps there are certain aspects of your lifestyle and character that others would consider ‘disgusting perversions’. Or, are you ***perfect? ***Just so say, and I’ll believe you.

“Because it is sinful, the “gay” world is not a happy place.”

If it’s unhappy, which it isn’t, it would be because of age-old, societal persecution.

“Man is made for woman and woman is made for man.”

Then why did God create homosexuality? Why did He reason, “I’ll create it in animals, and consider that okay. But in humans, it will be a horrific sin for which I will punish those who indulge it.”? Is God irrational? I don’t think so.

“It is insulting for anyone to suggest otherwise.”

Then get accustomed to being insulting. The world is full of perspectives that clash with yours.

“You call evil good and good evil.”

And you speak violence in the name of your decency and goodnes.

“I stand with St. Paul.”

Yeah, Paul, who ‘needed’ his young ***male ***companions so desperately, all the time.

Your entire argument is specious. God did not create homosexuality, Satan did.
You obviously have serious issues that you need to deal with, but do not attempt to convince me that homosexuality is anything other than pathology. Are you implying perhaps that St. Paul was homosexual? That’s a real stretch. Nobody is speaking “violence.” If you can’t deal with the truth, then perhaps you had better seek another forum.

 

[feetxxxl]

You were given “witness” way back on the first three pages of this thread. Goofyjim replied countless times with his testimony. Does his “witness” not count because he has chosen to walk with Christ and remain chaste?

How about the “witness” I provided? Do these examples hold no weight?

your witness is thru your fellowship…are you saying that you know of no heterosexual coupling where one or both of the pardners wasnt consistently promiscuous…MAURY POVICH…has.built a successful television program on heterosexual promiscuity, on the issue of paternity tests and identifying the biological parents. are you as disgusted with promiscuity of those couples as you are with homosexual promiscuity.

have you considered giving consideration of your homosexual brothers and sisters in christ with whom you worship and lift up christ, either together or seperately. i know of no body of believers that supports heterosexual or homosexual promiscuity. i know of no homosexual or heterosexual believer who believes sexual promiscuity is of christ.

 

[mercygate]

your witness is thru your fellowship…are you saying that you know of no heterosexual coupling where one or both of the pardners wasnt consistently promiscuous…MAURY POVICH…has.built a successful television program on heterosexual promiscuity, on the issue of paternity tests and identifying the biological parents. are you as disgusted with promiscuity of those couples as you are with homosexual promiscuity.

Of course. You can’t seriously believe otherwise. Most of us think this whole thread is too narrow. We think contraception, masturbation, fornication and adultery all belong on the same page with homosexual acts.

have you considered giving consideration of your homosexual brothers and sisters in christ with whom you worship and lift up christ, either together or seperately.

Serious question: is English your native language? I do not have the least idea what this sentence means. And I am not being obtuse or “difficult”.

i know of no body of believers that supports heterosexual or homosexual promiscuity. i know of no homosexual or heterosexual believer who believes sexual promiscuity is of christ.

Good. We can leave all of that out of future discussions. Promiscuity is off the table for this discussion. There was a whole sub-culture in the 70s that espoused “open marriage”, though. That was a fancy word for sleeping with people other than your spouse. When does adultery become promiscuity? For Christians, it’s ALL off the table.