S
SedesDomi
Guest
Time to break down that door, don’t you think?
- Status
L
LilyM
Guest
Very likely you do … and as a cradle Catholic I’m both humble enough and eager enough to learn more to admit this. And to admit that the RCIA process, as well as those who administer it, is far from perfect.
I’m also sure that however long anyone spends on RCIA it still wouldn’t be enough to truly absorb (as opposed to ‘learning about’, and believe me there’s all the difference in the world) 2,000 years worth of accumulated Scripture and Tradition.
Read the Confessions of St Augustine - he spent YEARS as a catechumen (being prepared for the faith). The Church was about 1500 years less complicated at that time. And he was one of the most brilliant and learned men of his or any age.
And bear this in mind - evangelicals may be better at attracting people to the faith, but what percentage of those they attract leave again (either the particular denomination or Christianity altogether) a few months or a few years later. The overwhelming majority of Catholics who get to the end of the RCIA program will stay in the Church for the rest of their lives - THAT is what makes a great (or at least much better) program in my book.
I
irishmac
Guest
roblrich, you have seemingly expressed the drive to become Catholic, and it is a tremendous shame that the people in your parish, like other parishes across the country, are not open enough to fellowship. I would volunteer to be your sponsor, but I live out here in Southern California. I hope that the Holy Spirit blesses you with a wonderful person to sponsor you, to strengthen you in the Faith, and support you as you enter the Church. Continue on the journey home and pray for the Holy Spirit to be your guide.
R
roblrich
Guest
Thanks Lily & IrishMac.
Before I take my leave from the forum (as I promised), I do have a question. At Mass, I know that in some parishes they dismiss individuals that aren’t elgible to accept the Eucharist. In my parish, this isn’t done and some walk down the aisle, cross their arms and receive a blessing.
If it is not considered rude, I would prefer not to do this, and either take my leave or stay kneeling at my pew. Are both acceptable, or will I be viewed negatively not walking and asking for a blessing?
If I’m not worthy to take part of the Eucharist, I would rather not take up a seat at the table…
Before I take my leave from the forum (as I promised), I do have a question. At Mass, I know that in some parishes they dismiss individuals that aren’t elgible to accept the Eucharist. In my parish, this isn’t done and some walk down the aisle, cross their arms and receive a blessing.
If it is not considered rude, I would prefer not to do this, and either take my leave or stay kneeling at my pew. Are both acceptable, or will I be viewed negatively not walking and asking for a blessing?
If I’m not worthy to take part of the Eucharist, I would rather not take up a seat at the table…
D
DeFide
Guest
I’d stay in the pew, personally, if I was in your shoes and I’d highly doubt anyone else would notice:
zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=71485
(see follow-up section)
and:
zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=70700
:twocents:
Remember, even Catholics are not required to receive communion every week. They are even required to refrain from communion if they are in a state of mortal sin.
I
irishmac
Guest
Both are acceptable practices. Some people, who haven’t received the Sacrement of Reconciliation in some time, choose to remain in the pew. Some still choose to process up to the altar with either their arms across their chest, or a finger held over a closed mouth, signifying that they are up for a blessing. Remember what St. Paul said in 1st Corinthians, “Whosoever eat of the flesh and drinks of the cup without discerning reeps eternal damnation upon themselves.” (or something like that, I’m away from my Bible.) Just ensure that you do not attempt to receive the Eucharist until you receive the rites of initiation. If you stay in the pew, prayerfully, fine. If you want the blessing from the priest by going close to the Real Presense in the Eucharist, respectfully, that’s fine, too. Enjoy the Mass. An interesting book for to read is The Lamb’s Supper by Dr. Scott Hahn, a Pentecostal minister turned Catholic theologian and professor. He discusses how the Mass is the fulfillment of the Book of Revelation and is Heaven on Earth. Give it a read.
Dominus vobiscum!
Dominus vobiscum!
C
Contarini
Guest
I have not heard of such a parish. Many parishes do dismiss those who are enrolled as candidates. This is an imitation of the ancient policy of dismissing catechumens–but of course back then catechumens were dismissed because anyone not in the communion of the Church was dismissed. Your supposition that this is still the practice was a reasonable one, but current catechetical practice is not so reasonable. Candidates and only candidates are dismissed–I have yet to hear of any parish that requires non-Catholic visitors or casual inquirers to leave.
I rather like receiving a blessing, but I do find it a little embarrassing, because the priest usually has the Host all ready to give you and he has to do a double-take. Last Sunday (which happens to be the last time I went to Mass), the priest actually blessed me with the consecrated Host (i.e., he made the sign of the Cross over me with it). I don’t know if this was on purpose or because he didn’t have time to put the Host back. . . .
I also worry, in churches where I know people, that someone will see me and think I’m receiving Communion illicitly. I especially worry about this for two reasons–first, I have received Communion illicitly a few times (so I have a bad conscience), and second, one good friend of mine from grad school allegedly said (this was relayed to me by others) that it was OK to punch a non-Catholic in order to stop them receiving Communion. His sanguinary views are rare, I’m sure, but whenever I get in the line I have this vision of Tom coming at me with his fists flailing, and I quail inwardly. . . .
In Christ,
Edwin
C
Contarini
Guest
Thanks. Those links are helpful for me as well I generally only go forward if I see that the priest is distributing Communion for the aisle in which I’m sitting, because I wasn’t sure if extraordinary ministers were supposed to give such blessings or not.
Orthodox churches typically have everyone (whether they have received Communion or not) file past the priest and kiss his hand/ring (and the cross he holds) at the end of the Liturgy, so that’s simpler.
Edwin
G
gardenswithkids
Guest
Don’t feel the need to leave this forum if you changed your mind about how friendly we are. We can be an opinionated bunch, but don’t take it personally.
Not every parish dismisses candidates before the Eucharist as you observed. Those that dismiss them usually conduct classes during that time. If your parish doesn’t do this, then I encourage you to stay for the rest of Mass. It’s fine to pray in your pew at Communion time. Just sort of scoot your legs to the side to let others in the pew pass. You certainly don’t need to go up for any blessing if you don’t wish–some parishes don’t do that either. Individual Catholics sometimes don’t recieve Communion every Sunday either, if for example they haven’t fasted or been to confession. You might want to recite a prayer called a “spiritual communion” during that time–there are various versions but they basically ask Jesus to come into your heart spiritually since you can’t recieve Him physically in Holy Communion.
R
RCConvert
Guest
Hi! This is my first post here. First, I want to congratulate you on your desire to enter the Church. As a convert, I know the feeling!
*But it sure is clear that Catholics have no idea how to evangelize. It’s seems to be not in their character or “style” to go out of their way to lead souls to God. *
True, but the Church herself is calling for a change, and fortunately there are many of us out here who hear the call and are working for change.
Someone here mentioned that the vast majority of people who go through RCIA remain in the Church afterwards. Actually that’s not true - the USCCB has found the 36% of people are gone a year after confirmation.
The problem, however, as the bishops have identified it, is in the very beginning of the process, in what is called “primary proclamation of the gospel.” What that means is, many parish RCIA programs tend to focus on presenting a series of doctrines, but neglect to really focus on proclaiming Christ and bringing the person into a relationship with Christ. If you already have a relationship with Christ, as it sounds you do, it won’t be as much of an issue for you.
But this is one respect in which today’s RCIA (in practice, if not in theory) differs from the RCIA of the early Church. In the early Church, Christ was proclaimed clearly, and only after people had made a commitment to Him were they then given the sacraments and taught the full doctrines of the Church.
I’m a graduate student in a Catholic institute, studying evangelization and catechesis, and we’re studying this very problem and trying to come up with solutions.
I’m also interning in an RCIA program this year, and as a convert have been in a couple of different RCIA’s and helped with others. The quality varies from parish to parish depending on available resources and talent - some are very good, some leave much to be desired.
As to the time it takes to enter the Church, in my experience it is time well spent. I really enjoyed my RCIA experiences, found it a very deep and enriching time of learning, sharing, and reflecting on the faith with my companions in the process, after which I was very, very ready for the sacraments - and my first reception of Holy Communion was wonderful, in large part due to the long preparation I had received. Entering the Church is not just joining something in the usual sense. It’s a marriage, with Christ and the whole Body, and takes time to prepare. So don’t worry, make the most of it!
I will say this in closing: The Catholic world is not a perfect world. There’s plenty of wheat, and plenty of weeds. But it’s a beautiful world, much more than just the parish, a real global community (which can be very exciting), and there’s a lot of on fire Catholics who are heeding the call of the Church, and really wanting to make a difference. So, I encourage you!
God bless you,
Aimee
*But it sure is clear that Catholics have no idea how to evangelize. It’s seems to be not in their character or “style” to go out of their way to lead souls to God. *
True, but the Church herself is calling for a change, and fortunately there are many of us out here who hear the call and are working for change.
Someone here mentioned that the vast majority of people who go through RCIA remain in the Church afterwards. Actually that’s not true - the USCCB has found the 36% of people are gone a year after confirmation.
The problem, however, as the bishops have identified it, is in the very beginning of the process, in what is called “primary proclamation of the gospel.” What that means is, many parish RCIA programs tend to focus on presenting a series of doctrines, but neglect to really focus on proclaiming Christ and bringing the person into a relationship with Christ. If you already have a relationship with Christ, as it sounds you do, it won’t be as much of an issue for you.
But this is one respect in which today’s RCIA (in practice, if not in theory) differs from the RCIA of the early Church. In the early Church, Christ was proclaimed clearly, and only after people had made a commitment to Him were they then given the sacraments and taught the full doctrines of the Church.
I’m a graduate student in a Catholic institute, studying evangelization and catechesis, and we’re studying this very problem and trying to come up with solutions.
I’m also interning in an RCIA program this year, and as a convert have been in a couple of different RCIA’s and helped with others. The quality varies from parish to parish depending on available resources and talent - some are very good, some leave much to be desired.
As to the time it takes to enter the Church, in my experience it is time well spent. I really enjoyed my RCIA experiences, found it a very deep and enriching time of learning, sharing, and reflecting on the faith with my companions in the process, after which I was very, very ready for the sacraments - and my first reception of Holy Communion was wonderful, in large part due to the long preparation I had received. Entering the Church is not just joining something in the usual sense. It’s a marriage, with Christ and the whole Body, and takes time to prepare. So don’t worry, make the most of it!
I will say this in closing: The Catholic world is not a perfect world. There’s plenty of wheat, and plenty of weeds. But it’s a beautiful world, much more than just the parish, a real global community (which can be very exciting), and there’s a lot of on fire Catholics who are heeding the call of the Church, and really wanting to make a difference. So, I encourage you!
God bless you,
Aimee
R
roblrich
Guest
Thanks for all the replies and promised prayers. And today, those prayers were heard and answered.
I went to noon Mass today, and things seemed to be different as far as the “world was against me” feeling that I had before about converting and unsure of the parish’s acceptance of me. Today, I made it a point to hang around after Mass and several people did approach me and seemed to be interested in me.
I also approached the lady which is the education director which leads the RCIA, and explained my situation to her, and she seemed quite receptive. Turns out that last years RCIA class had a couple of problems with a couple of people that was on the path to conversion, until they discovered the Church’s Marian doctrine. So they are being especially cautious with future converts, She was relieved when I pulled out my Rosary and told her I pray it every day, and I understood (or at least believe as best as I understand it) the Virgin Mary’s role in the church, including being the "Mother of God, her perpetual virginity, grace of the Immaculate Conception, her role in our Redemption, her Assumption and her Queenship in Heaven.
I am still on a big learning curve, so I need some slack if any of my terminology is incorrect.
But my parish shouldn’t have any fear of my rejecting any of the church’s doctrine. I believe in the succession of Popes, the authority from Christ they have, and also believe in Pope Infallibility. Matthew 16:18-19 made it clear that Christ gave all authority to Peter. And even the protestant’s must have believed this or they would still be circumcising. Peter declared that circumcision was no longer necessary in Acts 15. Now if protestants believe that Peter as the Bishop of Rome did not have the authority to make such a decision, shouldn’t they still be practicing circumcision? So in my opinion, with the Pope’s Infallibility, if he says it is so, then I believe it.
Also, I did some more research online, and discovered for myself that I am very lucky that my priest hasn’t shut the door altogether from me possibly being received into the Church this Easter. As some parishes require, my priest could have required me to wait until this September to start RCIA and wait til next Easter to enter the Church. I suppose I am actually very fortunate.
I am interested in acquiring answers to many questions and in need of several clarifications and I hope that I don’t overwhelm my RCIA class next session. I may wait until after class to bring some things up. I’m interested in the “filioque controversy”, the status of the “Mary-Coredemptrix petition” catholicsource.net/articles/coredemptrix.html, and other issues.
Thanks for all the support and prayers! I am now content knowing that I am on the road of conversion, and I am willing to climb the hills and ride the valleys until I get there.
And I know I have said this before, but I think my priest is fantastic! I would include his name, but I originally said (out of ignorance) some unflattering things about the parish. But I was wrong, not they! I simply did not “fully” understand the process.
Thanks again,
Robert
I went to noon Mass today, and things seemed to be different as far as the “world was against me” feeling that I had before about converting and unsure of the parish’s acceptance of me. Today, I made it a point to hang around after Mass and several people did approach me and seemed to be interested in me.
I also approached the lady which is the education director which leads the RCIA, and explained my situation to her, and she seemed quite receptive. Turns out that last years RCIA class had a couple of problems with a couple of people that was on the path to conversion, until they discovered the Church’s Marian doctrine. So they are being especially cautious with future converts, She was relieved when I pulled out my Rosary and told her I pray it every day, and I understood (or at least believe as best as I understand it) the Virgin Mary’s role in the church, including being the "Mother of God, her perpetual virginity, grace of the Immaculate Conception, her role in our Redemption, her Assumption and her Queenship in Heaven.
I am still on a big learning curve, so I need some slack if any of my terminology is incorrect.
But my parish shouldn’t have any fear of my rejecting any of the church’s doctrine. I believe in the succession of Popes, the authority from Christ they have, and also believe in Pope Infallibility. Matthew 16:18-19 made it clear that Christ gave all authority to Peter. And even the protestant’s must have believed this or they would still be circumcising. Peter declared that circumcision was no longer necessary in Acts 15. Now if protestants believe that Peter as the Bishop of Rome did not have the authority to make such a decision, shouldn’t they still be practicing circumcision? So in my opinion, with the Pope’s Infallibility, if he says it is so, then I believe it.
Also, I did some more research online, and discovered for myself that I am very lucky that my priest hasn’t shut the door altogether from me possibly being received into the Church this Easter. As some parishes require, my priest could have required me to wait until this September to start RCIA and wait til next Easter to enter the Church. I suppose I am actually very fortunate.
I am interested in acquiring answers to many questions and in need of several clarifications and I hope that I don’t overwhelm my RCIA class next session. I may wait until after class to bring some things up. I’m interested in the “filioque controversy”, the status of the “Mary-Coredemptrix petition” catholicsource.net/articles/coredemptrix.html, and other issues.
Thanks for all the support and prayers! I am now content knowing that I am on the road of conversion, and I am willing to climb the hills and ride the valleys until I get there.
And I know I have said this before, but I think my priest is fantastic! I would include his name, but I originally said (out of ignorance) some unflattering things about the parish. But I was wrong, not they! I simply did not “fully” understand the process.
Thanks again,
Robert
W
water
Guest
wow. Praise the Lord! He surely heard your prayers and of those who thought of you.
Robert, I am very happy for you.
Robert, I am very happy for you.
T
ThePRGuy
Guest
Hang in there, RobLRich. I, too, am in my 40’s and a candidate in RCIA, although I did INQUIRE about fast-tracking, since I worked six years for a Roman Catholic Diocese and my Catholic wife says I’m more Catholic than she is. All that is required for you to become Catholic is to profess your desire to become one, believe in the Catholic faith, and receive communion. This can be done on your deathbed, even. So, why wait?
In addition, a church is made up of its people. Some are more friendly than others. I suggest you find a small group to join…say a bible study group. There you will find true acceptance and the original spirit of the Church as Christ intended it to be.
The RCIA process, with a group of catechumenates and inquirers, is fascinating. I am learning tons. It’s experiential and the path that I am on. It surely will have more meaning and will “stick” as I go through it.
One thing I have learned in life is that most people aren’t as well informed as I think they should be and that they don’t have all the answers. Some answers I must discern for myself.
I truly hope you find a parish where you feel comfortable and accepted.
Peace be with you!
- Status