Is civil divorce wrong?

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And how is the Church involved in these situations?

The Church ought to be our sanctuary. And sometimes we must contest the Church leaders, in order to receive that support.
 
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If your spouse is the one filing, it is likely they don’t give a rat’s behind if their pastor thinks they are justified or not.

By the time a marriage is on the brink of divorce, the smallest problem one would have is if the Church finds it justifiable.

I wouldn’t worry about that. I would worry about solving whatever contribution I am making to what has gotten us there, and would encourage my spouse to do the same. That is the road to resolution.

Of course, I left the Church long before I married so I may not be up on all the rules to those who are married in the Church. It just seems to me that what you suggest is far too pedantic for suffering souls at a time of crisis such as an impending divorce.
 
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If people knew they could approach their priest, it would at least provide an outlet and a source of advice for those who truly need to leave. Civil divorce is canonically justified in such cases (it may sometimes even be morally required), but people don’t always know that.
 
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Its not the Church’s job to judge how someone will react. They are to do their duty. The reaction after admonishment is what gives evidence.
 
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I’m suggesting that pastors offer a written form of their position regarding separation, and then after the separation, civil divorce or not.
 
I don’t like your suggestion because it puts one man in charge of “approving” (literally, with a stamp or letter of approval) a civil divorce. People seek civil divorce for very real problems. Those who are religious and seek one usually have very significant problems, often times involving health and/or safety. To wait for a pastor to approve this is to put the person seeking it in jeopardy, quite possibly. Those who take their Catholic marriage vows seriously will follow the rules, which could be terrible for them or their children if a “disapproval” is given and they take it seriously. Those who don’t follow the rules wouldn’t bother with them anyway.

I am not sure what problem you think needs to be solved by adding this requirement (?)
 
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Because a Christian Marriage is for life. And the Church is dedicated to counseling struggling Marriages.

If a pastor has no place in discerning the morals of a member filing a judgment against another, then they would not be a very beneficial pastor
 
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Good counseling is always a good thing. But you stretch it. You want a written “approval” or “disapproval”. How do you think that is going to help a struggling couple? How do you think it is going to help someone whose spouse won’t cooperate and refuses to meet with their pastor?

If the pastor approves, then I guess that is fine for all. If the pastor disapproves, all that is going to do is cause unreasonable guilt for the spouse who is being divorced when they want to make the marriage work.

I understand what the Church teaches about marriage, but it takes two to tango. You can’t control other people. I know plenty of people who were headed for divorce that decided to get some (secular) counseling. Some decided to stay married, some not. None of their outcomes would have been any different if their religious director (pastor, in the case of Catholics) had given “approval” or disapproval".

Divorce is a rotten time for most folks. People don’t just wake up one day and decide it would be a good day for a divorce.

Marriage is sacred between a husband, wife, and God (if they choose). Perhaps I am just too loyal, but I don’t think a fourth party has any business between a husband, wife, and God in the way you suggest. Advice and opinions are fine, and should be sought if one’s religion is important to them. Requiring a letter is over the top.

Again, counseling (religious or otherwise) should always be sought before making a decision as big as divorce. I think this is the role a pastor or priest should play.
 
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A spouse who feels justified to divorce will not listen to their spouse regarding morals. That where the Church is bound to defend the Sacrament.

Canon law already requires a Bishop’s approval to file such a judgment.

Many Christians dont realize this, because pastors dont relate it.

A written statement provides more accountability to the pastor and conviction to the spouse seeking divorce.

If the Church justifies divorce, a pastor is qualified to affirm or disapprove.

They are always free to appeal to the Bishop personally.

What Christian’s should NOT do, even if they have made mistakes, is neglect the Church with such a serious decision.
 
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We see things differently. Safety and health are paramount. There is no need to muck things up by waiting for a pastor or bishoo to make some ruling on the entire future of one’s life. When we marry, we realized there may be a chance that our spouse decides to quit at some point. It is unfortunate, but because we have free will and cannot control other people it is always a possibility. These situations are incredibly sad. We don’t need the Church making them sadder and more difficult. Please don’t misunderstand me. A devout Catholic should always check with their spiritual director to seek advice and opinion on what to do in any particular situation.
 
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Ah, so you think a pastor will not act immediate where danger exists?

Remember, separation should ALWAYS come before a decision to divorce.

Immediate separation should always happen where viloence occurs. Further discernment can happen after protection is sought.

If one feels justified to file a lawsuit judgment, then the Church will see that too. If a lawsuit is not warranted, then a pastor should not shrink away from expressing that.
 
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rcwitness said:
Ah, so you think a pastor will not act immediate where danger exists?
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No. I worry about the judgment of and authority given to a relatively uninvolved third party, to the exclusion of the common sense of those who will be impacted.
 
Too much accountability on paper, IMO. You don’t have to shove it in the face of people already suffering tremendously.

Sorry if, that is blunt. It is the way see it.
 
Somebody who is attempting to file divorce unjustly is suffering?

Do you realize divorce is a harsh judgment?
Why do the pastors need to act in secret?

Jesus said Moses permitted divorce because of the hardness of the people’s hearts. If we receive His heart, we won’t divorce.
 
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rcwitness said:
Somebody who is attempting to file divorce unjustly is suffering?
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Yes. Often times, terribly. It is troubling that there are those who seem to not understand this, or choose to overlook it.

I guess I don’t like your suggestion because it seems to lack empathy.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
 
They may be suffering, but divorcing unjustly only adds to their suffering.

It’s better to suffer for righteousness, than to judge your spouse, when the Church says you should not.

I’m only suggesting the Church’s leaders uphold and stand by what their Church professes. Dont speak in secret to try and win sides. Represent Jesus, who is impartial.

What a controversial thing, huh?
 
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Firstly, you need a civil divorce Decree Absolute to even get an annulment.

Secondly, there are many valid reasons for an annulment.

Annulments are not that uncommon. Click here for a NY Times article from 1982 on the then skyrocketing annulment numbers!

With the recent changes again to how annulments are processed, it could be considered even more straightforward.

God did not intend for us to remain married if we have a valid reason not to be.

The difference is between what the secular world feels like is a valid reason, and what Canon Law says is a valid reason. But for the most part, they do somewhat overlap.
 
rcwitness said:
Ask your pastor to put in writing (his opinion) whether or not you or your spouse is justified or not to file, and do not file without being in a state of Grace.
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Those are two separate processes.

However, your parish priest is not the marriage tribunal and thus most likely cannot say whether the reasons are sufficiently valid enough to receive an annulment. This will be explored during the annulment process after you are civilly divorced.

The reason the annulment process is after your civil divorce is also because it prevents information given in confidence to the Tribunal from being used in divorce proceedings.

I’ve linked in the previous post two PDFs—one with valid reasons to seek an annulment and the other about the annulment process.

In civil law, your spouse can divorce you. If they do so, without proper consultation with you, it is still their legal right. These are issues that will be explored in the annulment process.
 
What is your point?

I’m asking why it is a problem to ask your pastor for a written statement whether or not he agrees if one or both spouses are justified to file a civil divorce lawsuit against the Marriage.
 
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