Is civil divorce wrong?

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None of us are saying that there are never just causes for divorce or that it is always sinful. Yet you seem to be stating that divorce is never a sin. You sight a document that says that gives possible just causes (eg from the Archdiocese from Chicago), but yet your statements seem to indicate you never consider it a sin. Even to the point of saying “immorality does not equate to sin”.

Heck, I think it is a sin for me to not help my wife cleaning the kitchen after supper if she asks (or indeed to expect her to do it alone when I am not busy). Yet there is nothing wrong with me going down to the courthouse, filing for divorce, and packing my bags all for no other reason that I no longer want any of the burdens of marriage? We are so far apart, I simply do not know how to continue.
LittleFlower said:
I am happy to be proven wrong. But again, you have to provide multiple sources that actually verify what you are trying to argue.
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I will only say, I have given specific quotes from the Catechism and canon law which support the opposing view already.
 
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The annulment process is a separate issue. Please stop conflating the two.

There is separation, civil divorce, and decrees of nulity.

You are making assumptions about the morality of civil divorce which do not exist.

Those articles you read only state that divorce is not necessarily a sin!
 
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I have just gone through all my posts. I have repeatedly stated that a marriage ending is sad, that a priest should be consulted, that the couple should try to work things out.

I have repeatedly ask for verifiable facts on where it is stated that it could constitute a sin? I have not found one resource that explicitly says that. Thus, logically, if it were a sin it would be clearly explained as one—just like abortion. The Church would not allow its flock to merely end marriages civilly with the potential of immediately being in (mortal) sin without clearly formulated resources!

Even if you waltz down to the courthouse tomorrow, one of my resources said that if remaining married goes against your well being, you may seperate and if life is too hard, the same applies.

Again from https://archomaha.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/StepbyStep-Guide-English.pdf
Contrary to popular myth, the Church has never indicated that divorce alone was sufficient grounds for not receiving the sacraments. Catholics who are divorced but who have not
entered another civil marriage are encouraged to practice their faith fully. This may include participation in the sacraments, presuming one is being faithful to his/her natural obligations
and seeking to a lead a moral life. Merely being separated or divorced does not change one’s status in the Church. Divorced Catholics are full members of the Church with all of the same
rights and obligations as any other member.
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I can quote resources to the cows come home, clearly it is also not getting through.

Again, if someone can provide a clear, verifiable source that divorcing is a (mortal) sin that would be amazing. Then someone should take that as their mission and help create resources educating the faithful on this matter.
 
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The problem with your line of reasoning is that you are trying to determine whether divorce is a sin or not.

Divorce is not inherently a sin or not a sin.

Sometimes its justified, and sometimes it’s not. Plain and simple.

The United States requires the Bishop, or his delegates to authorize the filing of divorce for this reason.

The Marriage Tribunal does not address this. It simply requires a civil divorce to be in place. It does not address the morality of a particular divorce.

Personally, I think it’s a bad policy. But that is a separate issue. What we should not do, is conclude from that policy, that all divorce is NOT sinful!
 
Consider it like contraception. Is using contraception a sin? Not necessarily.
 
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Help! Is divorce a Mortal Sin? Moral Theology
Question- I teach 7th grade PSR and one of the questions tonight was is divorce a sin. I answered that it is against church teachings but with the annullment process the Church decides if the marriage was ever valid in the eyes of God and went over the difference between civil divorce and what is seen in the eyes of God (if it was ever a valid marriage). My co-teacher stated that it was always a sin punishable by hell. I don’t mince words with these kids but didn’t think it was necessary to …
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There are other topics on the forum that have debated this, and many argue it isn’t a sin and others argue it is.

Again, there is no verifiable source that clearly states it as a sin. If your wellbeing is impacted, that is reason enough to seek separation and if you require a civil divorce to protect yourself and your rights, that is also considered permissible.

I would be very surprised if the Church counts it a sin and never clearly states that in any resources I can find online. The USCCB would state it very clearly, like it does with abortion.
 
LittleFlower said:
Again, if someone can provide a clear, verifiable source that divorcing is a (mortal) sin that would be amazing.
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Ok, lets keep it simple, from the CCC:

[2384] Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law.

Now, that language, “grave offense” is used often in the Catechism for actions which are potentially mortal sins. In this case (unlike others), the Catechism does not say divorce is inherently evil, which means there are reasons such that it is not immoral (which I have already posted from the Catechsim). But you have blinders on if you deny that one sentence does not mean it could be a sin. One cannot knowingly commit a grave offense against natural law and not be sinning.

Furthermore, do you not agree that violating canon law would be a sin? yet canon 1151 pecifically states:

Can. 1151 Spouses have the duty and right to preserve conjugal living unless a legitimate cause excuses them.

How can one read that and not think that divorce, without legitimate cause, is not a violation of the law.

BTW, I understand that you believe the ending of a marriage is sad, I understand that you are not trivializing getting a divorce. My examples and wording, admittedly extreme, are simply to make a point: getting a divorce can definitely be a sin.
 
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tafan2 said:
How can one read that and not think that divorce, without legitimate cause, is not a violation of the law.
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But what isn’t a legitimate cause?

If your wellbeing is impacted, aka you’ve had enough of John or Sophia and your mental health is suffering or you are drinking too much because of home life, that would be a reason to seek separation. If afterwards you need to file for divorce to protect yourself, your rights, and your children, that’s apparently okay—at least that is what the linked PDFs and website say.

Now, if you walk down to the courthouse because it’s just getting too hard to deal with, again, you may have entered the marriage with divorce always being an option, thus it maybe never was a valid sacramental marriage in the first place. Also “too hard” was quoted above as a reason to separate—at least that is what the linked PDFs and website say.

Of course, it can be a sin however I have not seen one resource from an Arch/diocese or other vetted group that says “Hey, you thinking about divorcing? Well watch out!”.

Most of the divorces are in complete sorrow. Many times, both parties wished it wasn’t the case, sometimes one party wants out and the other doesn’t. But wanting out isn’t inherently sinful.

I am happy to be corrected. I have stated this many times. Canon Law is not easy to understand nor apply, and as laity we lean on resources provided by Arch/diocesan agencies or similar. Now, if they truely believed many divorces were flippant, I would be shocked that they have not addressed this in their material.
 
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The Church doesn’t ask you to determine by yourself what is just cause or not.
 
LittleFlower said:
But what isn’t a legitimate cause?
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So you are simply arguing that all divorces have a legitimate cause and the Church’s teaching, though clear, is not needed?

One can read posts quite often on this forum about a person whose spouse is divorcing them, refuses counseling, refuses to work out problems, just says something along the lines of “I don’t love you anymore”. I have a sister-in-law whose husband simply left and filed for divorce so that he could be with another woman. You would say, only the being with another woman is a sin, I would say the divorce itself is also sin. His obligation was to repent from his sin and try to make amends to his wife. I had a work acquaintance who left his wife for no other reason than he wanted to be single again (he admitted this).

One cannot say that all of these cases a person thought at the time of marriage that divorce was always an option.

Divorce (itself) is a grave offense against natural law.
 
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tafan2 said:
So you are simply arguing that all divorces have a legitimate cause and the Church’s teaching, though clear, is not needed?
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No, I am not arguing that. The resources provided state that there are multiple reasons to seek divorce and maintaining your wellbeing can be one of them.
I have a sister-in-law whose husband simply left and filed for divorce so that he could be with another woman. You would say, only the being with another woman is a sin, I would say the divorce itself is also sin. His obligation was to repent from his sin and try to make amends to his wife.
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Again, we cannot know these people’s lives in-and-out. She might not be sinning in seeking a divorce, because she was abandoned. Maybe he was in his right to leave, if he felt like his wellbeing was impacted. He was not in his right to be with another woman, and thus sinned.
I had a work acquaintance who left his wife for no other reason than he wanted to be single again (he admitted this).
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This marriage might have never been sacramentally valid if he didn’t see it as permanent. Thus if he was lacking in education in faith matters, it perhaps also wasn’t sinful.

Not arguing for divorce just to be clear. I’m arguing for the greyscale of reasons and the lack of clear resources on it being sinful.
 
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LittleFlower said:
No, I am not arguing that. The resources provided state that there are multiple reasons to seek divorce and maintaining your wellbeing can be one of them.
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Which none of us have denied. Again, there are legitimate causes for divorce.
LittleFlower said:
Not arguing for divorce just to be clear. I’m arguing for the greyscale of reasons and the lack of clear resources on it being sinful.
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I believe the statements from the Catechism and the canon law I quoted are quite clear. It can be sinful.
 
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Thank you. Your statement seemingly limiting it to the United States was confusing. I read the webpage and the cited portions of the CCC and canon law.
 
All of your posts actually support a Christian seeking counsel and spiritual guidance from clergy before filing a civil judgment against their spouse.

As for hardships and well being, divorce is often a great hardship on the couples and their family. So a cause for divorce must outweigh the harm and stress done to the couple and their family by divorce!
 
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tafan2 said:
I believe the statements from the Catechism and the canon law I quoted are quite clear. It can be sinful.
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They are clear. I am, however, wondering why then multiple Arch/diocesan resources say that divorced people can receive the sacraments as long as they are not remarried, or in another partnership. :confused: They say this without any caveats.
 
Now that is actually a good question!

I think lack of conviction.
 
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