Is civil divorce wrong?

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That is NOT in line with Catholic Teaching.

To justify all divorce, by all spouses is terribly wrong.
 
“Would have”

Maybe, maybe not.

Let me ask you this… was your wife justified to divorce you? Or was it a sin?
 
[2383] The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.177
If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

Do you notice the bolded parts?
 
There was no justification, but it wasn’t sin as divorce isn’t sin.

There was no might involved, it would have been a waste of time. As I said, her pastor talked to her face to face and she flat out told him she will continue with the divorce.

The same thing would have happened with my girlfriend. She would have laughed at the note because she wasn’t staying in a marriage where her husband would continually cheat on her.
 
Well if he told her, then that is sufficient, and there would be no harm in putting on paper.
 
The Church doesn’t recognise a civil divorce as a dissolution of the sacramental marital bond.

From Did Jesus Allow Divorce? | Catholic Answers
The Catholic Church still today understands that separation and even civil divorce that does not presume to end a sacramental marriage is sometimes necessary (e.g., in the case of an abusive spouse). But such actions simply cannot dissolve the marital bond or free the spouses to marry others.
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This Church requires civil divorce to be able to annulment a sacramental marriage.

You can get divorced, but you are still sacramentally married in the eyes of the Church.

What exactly is the problem?
 
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Sometimes its permitted and even advised to file civil divorce. This requires the Bishops permission. Why?

The problem is that many Catholics interpret this to mean that civil divorce is never a sin. That’s a huge problem!
 
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Not a fact.

But I’m not interested in judging any particular situation. That’s the point. Dont judge how anyone will react. Just offer the pastor’s position.

Let them do what they will with it.
 
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You know, I haven’t criticized or insulted you or your personal situation at all.

And I dont claim that a letter would have made a difference in your case. Probably wouldn’t have, since your pastor did Express it face to face. So a letter wouldn’t have done any harm either. How would it, unless the pastor was advising to file divorce without a just cause.

I’m just suggesting it be implemented across the board. And it has the potential to affect some cases, and also hold pastors accountable for their spiritual advice.
 
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rcwitness said:
I’ve already told you, we should not judge how we think someone will react to something.
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Those with empathy do this every day, and it is a good thing we do. They make a judgement about how they believe someone else will feel and what the impact will be of whatever is being considered. I don’t know why you keep saying this.
 
rcwitness said:
What good is a busy pastor, while 50% of his parish is divorcing, and he isnt offering his moral advice?
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That is a very poor assumption. Why would you assume moral advice isn’t being offered? Pastors offer moral advice on this sort of thing all the time. I still am not getting why you think it needs to be formalized with a letter.
 
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LittleFlower said:
Firstly, again civilly divorcing is not a sin.
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It certainly can be a sin. Under the section " OFFENSES AGAINST THE DIGNITY OF MARRIAGE from the Catechism:
[2383] The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.177

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

[2384] Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:

If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another’s husband to herself.178

2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

[2386] It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.179
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The Church does not make sin a requirement in receiving an annulment. If an annulment is warranted, ie a sacramental marriage never existed, then obtaining the divorce would not have been a sin.
 
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rcwitness said:
Yes. If a pastor wrote someone a letter stating they are not justified to divorce their spouse, then you might reconsider.
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By reading some of your posts in other threads, I wonder if it might not be helpful for you to take a course or two in basic human psychology and relationships.

You seem to have very little faith in the ability of your fellow Catholics to use the brain given to them by God to make decisions regarding their relationships. I mean this not just in reference to this thread, but in reference to other threads in which you have posted.

You may find it very helpful to have your priest, pastor, or Bishop monitor and weigh in on every decision you make as it relates to the most intimate areas of your life. If so, and if they are willing to do that, then that is fine for you I guess.

It is presumptuous, at best, to believe all of your other fellow Catholics are in the same boat. They aren’t. Many have well-informed consciences and are content and at peace to use them. These seek spiritual counsel when it is apparent to them they need it. It is a reasonable approach.

Honestly, what you suggest sounds completely inappropriate for the reasons already stated. I am glad to see I am not the only one who thinks this. It isn’t OK. It isn’t the way the Church handles these things.
 
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rcwitness said:
f a spouse will not meet with a pastor, and a pastor refuses to invite them, then I think we should ask the pastor to write a letter stating that they do not approve of a divorce in that situation.
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I think if a pastor refuses to invite a spouse to a conversation, they’re unlikely to write a letter saying they disapprove of the divorce.

Also, this approach is fraught with the potential for manipulation by one spouse over another. It’s not difficult to imagine someone filing for divorce from an abusive spouse, who wants to drag him/her into meetings to intimidate him/her into staying.
 
Oh, I’m aware of manipulation!

I dont believe a pastor should write his formal advice without considering these things.

You dont need to protect the pastor. He is a big boy.
 
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I am not answering for rcwitness, this is my answer. It is likely the case that pastors are often involved in advising whether a divorce is warranted or not. I do believe that after working with a pastor, when it is apparent that a divorce is likely to proceed, the pastor should send a formalized letter to the Bishop so that he can either grant permission for the permanent separation or issue a decree of abandonment to the offending party.
 
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