Is Constantine a Saint?

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From what I remember reading about Constantine, he was no saint. I always thought it was rather ironic that he was baptized by an Arian Bishop considering he put off his baptism so that he might have all the blood on his hands washed away before his death.
some defend Constantine’s postponement of his baptism due to the fact that Catechumens in those days take 3 years or more before they are baptized. because the Church was underground until Constantine legalized it, there was a greater trial for those desiring Christian faith so that they would be sure they want to be Christians and not just turn on the other Christians at the first sign of persecution
 
some defend Constantine’s postponement of his baptism due to the fact that Catechumens in those days take 3 years or more before they are baptized. because the Church was underground until Constantine legalized it, there was a greater trial for those desiring Christian faith so that they would be sure they want to be Christians and not just turn on the other Christians at the first sign of persecution
I’ve never heard that, but I don’t think an emperor has to worry about persecution. :hmmm: I thought it was because Constantine had a good knowledge of theology and he wanted the many of the dirty, dirty things an emperor has to do to stay in power washed away before his death. It always seemed to me a laughable attempt to put one over on God.
 
Regardless of his intention for postponing baptism, and regardless of the fact that he was baptized by a semi-Arian (which doesn’t invalidate the baptism, by the way), he is honored as a saint among Eastern Christians, even Catholic ones.
 
I’ve never heard that, but I don’t think an emperor has to worry about persecution. :hmmm: I thought it was because Constantine had a good knowledge of theology and he wanted the many of the dirty, dirty things an emperor has to do to stay in power washed away before his death. It always seemed to me a laughable attempt to put one over on God.
the issue wasn’t the persecution but the fact that Catechumens wait for a while before being baptized. perhaps they didn’t change the rule just because Christianity suddenly came out from hiding.
 
Regardless of his intention for postponing baptism, and regardless of the fact that he was baptized by a semi-Arian (which doesn’t invalidate the baptism, by the way), .
It would depend if the arian used the triune formula or not. Right?
 
How can one equal to the Apostles not be a saint? :confused:

🙂
I’m intrigued by this statement. Is Constantine equal to the Apostles? According to whom? Is this one of his titles, or part of the liturgy commemorating him in the Eastern Church?
 
Hmm, not sure if the OP was asking about anything like that. I’m unsure of what your motives are for this post. It appears that you are trying to take a shot at Orthodoxy, which I find to be rather unfortunate. 😦 Perhaps the polemics should be saved for some other forum?

In Christ,
Andrew
Maybe you should read the post I was responding to for the context. I was responding to a point by an Eastern Orthodox poster about Catholic Saints with opposing views, and simply pointing out that this is the case with all Apostolic Communions.

Perhaps you should read a bit more carefully next time.
 
I’m intrigued by this statement. Is Constantine equal to the Apostles? According to whom? Is this one of his titles, or part of the liturgy commemorating him in the Eastern Church?
He and his mother Helen are both designated as “Equal to the Apostles” in the Orthodox Church. See: oca.org/FStropars.asp?SID=13&ID=101452

He also is sometimes called the “13 Apostle” (and rightfully could be called the “13th Warrior” as well) 😃
 
Maybe you should read the post I was responding to for the context. I was responding to a point by an Eastern Orthodox poster about Catholic Saints with opposing views, and simply pointing out that this is the case with all Apostolic Communions.

Perhaps you should read a bit more carefully next time.
I fail to see how the namedropping of St. Gregory Palamas as “accepting the Immaculate Conception and being rejected by modern Orthodox” as being germane to the discussion in any sense. But I digress. I just must be one of those “stubborn schismatics.” 🤷

In Christ,
Andrew
 
Venerating a Great Saint Today

The Orthodox Church today honors the memory of Constantine in several ways. Many Orthodox parishes are named after him. I attend Saints Constantine and Helen Greek Orthodox Cathedral of the Pacific. On Sunday mornings, soon after I enter the church, I see the icon of Christ sitting on the throne. I also see the icon of Constantine and his mother, Helen. Inside the church up in front I see Constantine and Helen on the icon screen. They are now part of the great cloud of witnesses cheering us on to finish the spiritual race (Hebrews 12). During the Sunday Liturgy, just before the scripture readings, the following troparion (hymn) is sung:

Your servant Constantine, O Lord and only Lover of Man,
Beheld the figure of the Cross in the heavens,
And like Paul, not having received his call from men,
But as an apostle among rulers set by Your hand over the royal city,
He preserved lasting peace through the prayers of the Theotokos.

The troparion celebrates God’s sovereignty in human history: how God selected a pagan Roman soldier, converted him through a miraculous vision of the Cross, and made him emperor and one of the greatest evangelists in the history of Christianity.

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I fail to see how the namedropping of St. Gregory Palamas as “accepting the Immaculate Conception and being rejected by modern Orthodox” as being germane to the discussion in any sense. But I digress. I just must be one of those “stubborn schismatics.” 🤷

In Christ,
Andrew
Again, I recommend reading the post by Alveus Lacuna which I was responding to. You’ll find that it was he who began with the “pot shots” at the Catholic Communion; I was merely pointing out that such contradictions are found in the Saints of all Apostolic Communions, even pre-Schism ones, and that the fact that Saints contradict eachother can’t be used to attack the Church.

Peace and God bless!
 
why is the greater than Apostle Paul, Timothy, or Barnabas? which are not included in the 12?
Eastern Catholics (at least among the Byzantines), like their Orthodox counterparts, do indeed refer to Constantine as “equal to the Apostles” and the “13th Apostle.”
 
So would Orthodox Christians still see Constantine, and the notion of a Christian Emperor in general, as the way God wants his world to be governed? The idea that he is the ‘apostle’ of rulers would suggest that he is held up as setting the standard for the way all Christian lands ought to be ruled, wouldn’t it?
 
Constantine is not the “apostle of rulers.” Eastern Christians call him “equal to the Apostles” because of what he did to spread the Gospel. He was the one who officially ended the persecution of Christians. He was likewise the one to call the first Ecumenical Council (Nicaea I) in order to unite all Christians in their belief. His being proclaimed a saint and “equal to the Apostles” has nothing to do with his setting the standard as a Christian ruler. Hope this helps.
 
So would Orthodox Christians still see Constantine, and the notion of a Christian Emperor in general, as the way God wants his world to be governed? The idea that he is the ‘apostle’ of rulers would suggest that he is held up as setting the standard for the way all Christian lands ought to be ruled, wouldn’t it?
Different people are gonna have different views but there is no dogma or required beleif in eastern Christianity that says we should have emperors, kings or tsars. In my personal opinion that form of government , when done properly, is the ideal (as per Aristotle).
 
So would Orthodox Christians still see Constantine, and the notion of a Christian Emperor in general, as the way God wants his world to be governed? The idea that he is the ‘apostle’ of rulers would suggest that he is held up as setting the standard for the way all Christian lands ought to be ruled, wouldn’t it?
One has to see the context of the times.

(reading Eusebius might help)

Coming out of an age when Christians had been discriminated and many times cruelly persecuted for most of three centuries, his accession to the throne was nothing short of a miracle.

Of course, that was accompanied by the usual carnage that the empire faced when different people contended for the throne.

Now there was more than enough willingness to bring him down, he had many eneimies, and a conversion to, or even expressing a preference for the Christian minority (it was still a minority religion then) over the pagan deities which had sustained the empire for centuries was enough of a legal argument to depose him with a torturous end. He could have been considered guilty of the highest form of treason in Roman law and the right combination of enemies could have taken him down.

He was also the first emperor to not expect to be remembered as a god, or even be regarded a high priest of Rome.

To many Christians of the day, his arrival on the scene must have been seen as the providence of God, a true miracle, and new theories arose in Christian thought that had never been there before. Instead of being an apocolyptic church, looking for the end to this evil world and a release from it’s cares, some Christians began to think that God intended a single united Christian world order with the theocratic world empire encompassing everything. A ‘kingdom of God on the earth’. It was a new vision, an attractive romantic ideal and one of the reasons uniformity in Christian dogma became of paramount interest to the state.

Among other things, this was the origin of the old ‘divine right of kings’ which plagued European history for many centuries with some of the worst possible characters one can imagine in charge of anything.

So of course, the reality of this new model of Christian world fell far short of the ideal, and the old empires are all gone. We can now look back on it and see that perhaps this was not at all what God had in mind.

But the powerful personality of this man shines through as one of the remarkable characters of Roman, indeed of world history. He truly did make it possible for the church to save many souls, at the risk of his own.

BTW, Saint Constantine was not the only one to receive the honorific title of “equal to the Apostles” in an Orthodox understanding. There have been others, including the Samaritan woman at the well and Saint Patrick of Ireland.
 
why is the greater than Apostle Paul, Timothy, or Barnabas? which are not included in the 12?
St. Constantine is not the only saint bearing this title. For example, St. Mary Magdalene is also Equal to the Apostles, as is St. Nino, the Enlightener of Georgia.
 
The same problem comes up in the Eastern Orthodox Communion, however. St. Gregory Palamas also emphatically believed in the Immaculate Conception, which is rejected by many, if not most, Eastern Orthodox today.
Could you present us with the evidence, that Saint Gregory Palamas spoke about the Immaculate Conception of the Roman Catholic Church? Thank you.
I don’t bring these examples up in order to say “you too!”, but rather to point out that erroneous beliefs don’t automatically detract from the Holiness of an individual, and oftentimes we can find something erroneous in anyone’s thinking. No one is completely free from such errors.

Peace and God bless!
In other words, can we just say that one cannot be infallibile ???

OH, By the way I also believe in the Immaculate Conception, just like any other Orthodox, how could we not believe in the I.C.? aren’t the Conceptions the work of GOD? we believe that all conceptions are Immaculate since all conceptions are the work of GOD, unless someone is ready to admit blasphemously that some conceptions of GOD are not Immaculate.

GOD bless you all †††
 
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