Is Constantine a Saint?

  • Thread starter Thread starter DL82
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
DL82 said:
I think it’s simply a matter of only having so many days in the year to celebrate far more than 365 saints. Some are more important to certain parts of the world than others. Even within the Western rite, there are saints whose veneration is more limited to one nation or part of the world (such as St Columba, whose saint’s day was celebrated yesterday in Scotland and Ireland, while the rest of the Latin Church celebrated St Ephraem). At least, as far as St Constantine and St John Cassian are concerned, local veneration seems to be a bit like that. Gregory Palamas is a more controversial figure in the theology of the West, from what I understand.
Click to expand...
I understand. But the East calls St Constantine–“Equal-to-the-Apostles”. But he is not even commemorated on the Latin calendar. It is confusing.
 
Mickey said:
I understand. But the East calls St Constantine–“Equal-to-the-Apostles”. But he is not even commemorated on the Latin calendar. It is confusing.
Click to expand...
At least from my own personal POV, I see “Equal-to-the-Apostles” as getting carried away. A great figure certainly, in so far as his declaring Christianity a legal religion which almost ended all persecutions and his role in calling Nicea are great (far greater than anything I’ll do for Christendom I’m sure). But still, putting him on the same level as Peter, *****Paul, Mattias, John, James et. al. just seems like a bit much to me.

***** Not sure if he’ll be actually reckoned as one of the 12, but if anyone who isn’t so reckoned deserves this title he certainly does.
 
crazzeto said:
At least from my own personal POV, I see “Equal-to-the-Apostles” as getting carried away.
Click to expand...
Then you better write a letter to Rome because they apparently allow the Eastern Catholics to use the same title. 😉
 
choy said:
that doesn’t invalidate the baptism
even an atheist can perform a valid baptism, especially on a deathbed
Click to expand...
Yes, but here’s the difference…Constantine himself became convinced of Arian beliefs which is why he became baptized at Eusebius’ hands.

So if a person were to be baptized by a Jehovah’s Witness (who don’t believe in Trinity or the divinity of Jesus), that baptism would not be valid…

UNLESS…

…the person on his deathbed, upon receiving the Baptism from a JW, held the Orthodox faith, because with this sacrament, what matters is the faith of the recipient.

But Constantine became convinced of Arianism on this deathbed.

Or maybe I’m wrong… What were the circumstances of Constantine’s deathbed baptism?

If he was too feeble to speak, maybe we don’t know what his real convictions were. Or maybe Eusebius, upon learning of his imminent death, rushed to his bedside to baptize him, thereby making a statement that his Arian views are correct…after all, Constantine was baptized by an Arian!
 
TheAdvocate said:
Yes, but here’s the difference…Constantine himself became convinced of Arian beliefs which is why he became baptized at Eusebius’ hands.

So if a person were to be baptized by a Jehovah’s Witness (who don’t believe in Trinity or the divinity of Jesus), that baptism would not be valid…

UNLESS…

…the person on his deathbed, upon receiving the Baptism from a JW, held the Orthodox faith, because with this sacrament, what matters is the faith of the recipient.

But Constantine became convinced of Arianism on this deathbed.

Or maybe I’m wrong… What were the circumstances of Constantine’s deathbed baptism?

If he was too feeble to speak, maybe we don’t know what his real convictions were. Or maybe Eusebius, upon learning of his imminent death, rushed to his bedside to baptize him, thereby making a statement that his Arian views are correct…after all, Constantine was baptized by an Arian!
Click to expand...
for a baptism to be valid, it should have:
  1. proper intent - intend to do what the Church does at Baptism (bring the person into the Church)
  2. proper matter (water pouring or immersion)
  3. proper form - the trinitarian formula
now, i’m not too familiar with the Arian heresy, but if the baptizer has those three elements, then the Baptism is valid and Constantine is a Christian, and washed away of all his sins
 
TheAdvocate said:
Yes, but here’s the difference…Constantine himself became convinced of Arian beliefs which is why he became baptized at Eusebius’ hands.

So if a person were to be baptized by a Jehovah’s Witness (who don’t believe in Trinity or the divinity of Jesus), that baptism would not be valid…

UNLESS…

…the person on his deathbed, upon receiving the Baptism from a JW, held the Orthodox faith, because with this sacrament, what matters is the faith of the recipient.

But Constantine became convinced of Arianism on this deathbed.

Or maybe I’m wrong… What were the circumstances of Constantine’s deathbed baptism?

If he was too feeble to speak, maybe we don’t know what his real convictions were. Or maybe Eusebius, upon learning of his imminent death, rushed to his bedside to baptize him, thereby making a statement that his Arian views are correct…after all, Constantine was baptized by an Arian!
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:
 
josephdaniel29 said:
Yes you are wrong. If he were an Arian he would not be a saint. 😉
Click to expand...
Fine, then. Then why the baptism by an Arian bishop, only one of perhaps THREE at the Council of Nicaea? We know that Constantine became an Arian sympathizer in his later years. It was he who called Arius back out of exile after the Council had condemned him and his teachings.
 
TheAdvocate said:
But Constantine became convinced of Arianism on this deathbed.

Or maybe I’m wrong… What were the circumstances of Constantine’s deathbed baptism?

If he was too feeble to speak, maybe we don’t know what his real convictions were. Or maybe Eusebius, upon learning of his imminent death, rushed to his bedside to baptize him, thereby making a statement that his Arian views are correct…after all, Constantine was baptized by an Arian!
Click to expand...
Maybe you should stop pretending that you know more about Konstantine’s fate then the Church does. She has proclaimed that he numbers among the angels. You have no more knowledge of what the Emperor was thinking at his deathbed then anyone else does. Its better to just accept the judgment of the Church.
 
This talk of the circumstances of his baptism made me think.

All of you are aware that the baptism of Arians was considered valid by the Church, right?

Just because he was baptized by an Arian — does that necessarily mean he was an Arian. We do not know the state of his mind and heart at the point of death.

I agree with brother Formosus that we should trust the judgment of the Church on the matter.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Diak said:
There is not such a thing, since we both (ideally) should be following the same canons and conventions of traditional iconography. Some of the icons you see in Eastern Catholic churches have actually have been written by Orthodox iconographers.
Click to expand...
I’d say about 95% have been written by Orthodox iconographers. I’ve been known to return with items needed from Moscow.
 
mardukm said:
I agree with brother Formosus that we should trust the judgment of the Church on the matter.
Click to expand...
Which was my point as well. I imagine if he had been canonized through the modern Latin process no one would question whether he was a heretic or not. 🤷
 
Mickey said:
Which brings us back to square one—the Latins do not consider him to be a saint. 🤷
Click to expand...
Where do you get this? He is merely not canonized by Rome as such, that doesn’t mean we reject the idea that he could be in heaven.
 
mardukm said:
This talk of the circumstances of his baptism made me think.

All of you are aware that the baptism of Arians was considered valid by the Church, right?

Just because he was baptized by an Arian — does that necessarily mean he was an Arian. We do not know the state of his mind and heart at the point of death.

I agree with brother Formosus that we should trust the judgment of the Church on the matter.

Blessings,
Marduk
Click to expand...
finally someone gets my point 👍

as long as the baptism is valid, it doesn’t matter who baptizes. because even a non-Christian can confer a valid baptism
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top