Is Darwin's Theory of Evolution True? Part 4.0

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ratio1 said:
so here’s my calculations:

scientists agree that we evolve from apes about 6 millions years ago.

let’s assume each generation is 10 years? (i don’t know how long apes live before they reproduce)

that means there are about 600,000 generations between apes and humans.

from the E coli above it took 31500 generations to get one new enzyme.

using this number, it took 600,000/31500 = 19 enzymatic change to evolve from apes to humans, which is utterly ludicrous!
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Welcome to Haldane’s Dilemma. The maths is impossible and evolutionists have known about this for decades. And has been suppressed/ignored for decades. Google this and Walter ReMine’s writeup/book on this dilemma.
 
curious_cath said:
Eternal rational nature? Really?! What is that? If human would have had that, we would find written records from eternity! But actually, human intelligence had to develop to a point in time, at about 5000 years ago, when it was able to produce written records.
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Scripture is from eternity. Eternity means outside of time. All time exists within God’s eternal vision. Eternity and time meet here and now, and is why we exist as a past-present-future moment that is always changing within itself, a manifestation of our spirit with its free will, transforming itself, moving along the Way that is Jesus Christ.

It is an interesting perspective that human intelligence developed. Clearly what we do with it develops. I’m not sure we are more brutal today than in Darwin’s time; secular society most definitely imagines itself progressing, but it is merely blind to its evi,l as has been every other generation. And, I would say, in spite of its being fighting words, that Darwinism is the mythos that justifies that evil. At any rate, according to a study doen a few years ago, we are losing, in spite of the benefits granted by better living conditions, public health measures and nutrition, about one IQ point every decade over the last 140 years. This does fit with what random mutation and natural selection would predict, although not so much popular fantasies about evolution. But I don’t think that’s the reason; we are losing grace, not using our God-given intellect in accordance to His will.
 
Your calculation does not include the effect of a distributed population. One enzyme can be evolving in southern Africa, while a different enzyme is evolving in central Africa. In any reasonably large population there will be different evolution in different locations. For example, the evolution of lactase persistence in some places but not in others due to different environments in those places.

It is also an error to use an asexual organism, like E. coli as a model for a sexually reproducing organism like ourselves.

rossum
 
Aloysium said:
Scripture is from eternity.
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So is any written human text. If God is omniscient, then any and all human texts are known from eternity by God. Being known from eternity by God is not special. All the Harry Potter books have been known from eternity by God. The Book of Mormon has been known from eternity by God. Every post on this forum has been known from eternity by God.

rossum
 
Hugh_Farey said:
Storms, floods, earthquakes and volcanoes are often depicted in myths as due to the anger of the gods after humans have failed to appease them. Good weather is often the result of appeasement.
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Sitting at a computer or in front of a television set watching nature programmes, in an office building, in a subdivision, not actually out there as we were when we were created, the universe becomes ever more a fantasy. The connection with nature in nature is one of mystery and wonder.

Darwinism can be understood as an application of utilitarianism to the world of science. So, what is thought to be of importance in the worship of the elements and other aspects of the world, is what it can do for us, how they can be appeased. Of course they are idols and those efforts would be wasted insofar as they do not take the person beyond to their Cause.

There has been something tragically lost in the degradation of mankind’s spiritual life; in making science a god that would reveal to us the truth, we are submerged into illusion. Truer perhaps is seeing a blue dome above, on a brilliant Mediterranean shore, than imagining Hubble images on a monitor.
 
Ever been in an amusement park funhouse where the mirrors reflect oneself back all distorted? I get what your saying but it’s not anywhere close to what I meant.

Scripture is the word of God, about the Word of God, by the Word of God.
 
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But how do we decide what scripture is the right scripture? There are so many to pick from: The Tanakh, The Bible, The Qur’an, The Bhagavad Gita, The Nihon-gi, The Tripitaka, Guru Granth Sahib and many others. All eternally known completely by God.

It is also worth pointing out that “On the Origin of Species” is not scripture, and does not claim to be scripture. Though that book also will be known eternally by any eternal and omniscient God.

rossum
 
ratio1 said:
scientists agree that we evolve from apes about 6 millions years ago.
let’s assume each generation is 10 years? (i don’t know how long apes live before they reproduce)
that means there are about 600,000 generations between apes and humans.
from the E coli above it took 31500 generations to get one new enzyme.
using this number, it took 600,000/31500 = 19 enzymatic change to evolve from apes to humans, which is utterly ludicrous!
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It is always good to lay out your reasoning clearly and logically, as it is so much easier to spot potential flaws. And no doubt you spotted yours even as you were writing. The words “Using this number”. Why, I wonder, did you use that number? Did you think it was what evolutionary scientists would do? Did you think that evolutionary scientists have used that number, discovered the absurdity of the result, and kept quiet about it hoping nobody would notice? Did you think that the factors controlling the rate of evolution of that population of bacteria were the same as those involved in the evolution of Homo sapiens from earlier hominoids?
 
Hugh_Farey said:
Did you think that the factors controlling the rate of evolution of that population of bacteria were the same as those involved in the evolution of Homo sapiens from earlier hominoids?
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It is logical to look at the simplist models and use that data to see if the more difficult models can be achieved.

There is no concrete evidence that homosapiens evolved from any earlier hominid. The record is discontinuous and shows that homosapiens suddenly appear.
 
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This should be the crux of any discussion about Evolution. If Evolution is a fact then it shouldn’t be hard to provide evidence that proves it 100%.

Evolution is a parlor trick. The evolutionist shows you that dogs have 300+ varieties and this proves that evolution is a fact. No it shows you can get different kinds of the same animal. All 300+ varieties of dogs is guess what, (say it with me class) all still dogs. You will never cross breed 2 dogs, no matter how different they are, and get a cat. You can have 400 quadrillion years and you would still be left with dogs.

Yet evolutionists would have you believe every single living organism today all came from a rock that blew up billions of years ago. So we get matter that created itself and then blew itself up and created life from non-life and then evolved into every organism today and only the homo sapiens “wise man” is able to comprehend all of that. Evolution is the grandest joke ever told.
 
Aloysium said:
Prepare the ground, and the seed of faith will grow and flower.
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I use a different scripture:
[The Buddha said:] “Kalamas, when you yourselves know: ‘These things are bad; these things are blameable; these things are censured by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and ill,’ abandon them. … Kalamas, when you yourselves know: ‘These things are good; these things are not blameable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,’ enter on and abide in them.”

Kalama sutta, Anguttara Nikaya, 3.65.
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rossum
 
These threads would end the moment repeatable scientific experiments could show that. It appears the formula is Chance X Millions of years = human beings or whatever.
 
edwest211 said:
These threads would end the moment repeatable scientific experiments could show that. It appears the formula is Chance X Millions of years = human beings or whatever.
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No, that is not the formula. The idea is much better expressed as:
(chance filtered by natural selection) x (time x population) = species change.
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rossum
 
I find that hard to believe. Scientists are finding increasing levels of complexity. It appears there was not enough time.
 
Time is certainly running out.

Essential reading…a trillion trillion years or more

IDvolution.org

IDvolution - Where faith and reason intersect. - intelligent design Jim Serafin
idvolution.blogspot.com idvolution.blogspot.com
 
rossum said:
No, that is not the formula. The idea is much better expressed as:

(chance filtered by natural selection) x (time x population) = species change.

rossum
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Reminds me of the formula to indicate the chance of alien life.

Looks like science, but ultimately it is not.
 
I was hoping someone would point out which step was wrong and then tell me the correct method.
So for example if you think it’s wrong to use 31500 then tell me what is the correct number? Or method?
I knew E. coli is different to humans but then surely there is a way to calaculate how many generations will we need to observe a major genetic shift?
Anyway I’ll have a look at Haldane stuff which I was not aware of and it may have my answer!
Unless you wish to tell me to correct method in calculating how humans were evolved from that primate ancestor?
 
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