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buffalo
Guest
You are aware giraffes feed from the ground too?
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edwest211
Guest
Yes, it is.
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buffalo
Guest
You are correct.I thought the moth study was a known example of being faulty/possibly fraudulent, sorta like piltdown man.
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PetraG
Guest
ALL abilities are built in abilities in natural selection. That’s the point.
There’s a bunch of trees in the savannah with fruits: giraffes don’t grow long necks to get he fruit, ONLY those giraffes with ALREADY long enough necks that they get through RANDOM mutations will eat the fruit and not die of hunger like the others. Only those giraffes will survive and pass on their genes to their kids who will inherit this condition, and so on.
If you still don’t get it, there’s nothing more I can do for you
We’re saying the same thing. The mutations just happen. Most of the time, mutations are bad things. They louse up some protein that is needed and cripple the animal or make it non-viable.“No, no, you misunderstand. It doesn’t take some special environmental pressure to trigger random mutations”.-PetraG
Sometimes, though, a mutation can just affect some small thing like neck length or whether the hair is straight or curly or the shape of the teeth. Maybe it affects it a little; maybe it affects it a lot. The individuals that have that difference will, under some circumstances, have an advantage. In the case of a giraffe, the mutated individuals had an extra source of food: leaves no other animal could reach. Maybe its descendants go through another mutation, and some of them can get all the leaves they want but are bad at getting to grass, they’re so tall. Kill the trees, those individuals might be toast, but as long as there are trees that only those tall organisms can get to, they have found themselves an environmental niche.
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PetraG
Guest
More importantly, the repair keeps the odds of mutation low enough that the fatality rate due to harmful mutations does not get too high. When a substance causes mutation beyond what normal repair mechanisms can cope with, that is a carcinogen and/or a teratogen.You are correct. DNA has several repair mechanisms and only after these corrective measures fail will a mutation have a chance to stick. The odds are very low and increases the time needed for evolution.
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edwest211
Guest
OK. First, you wait around millions of years to get fancy plumage so you can attract mates.
Then you wait around millions of years to develop camouflage so predators have a hard time finding you. But, mates also have a hard time finding you.
Then, you hang out with dinosaurs who just go around trampling the nests of all birds who have nests on the ground.
Then you wait around millions of years to develop camouflage so predators have a hard time finding you. But, mates also have a hard time finding you.
Then, you hang out with dinosaurs who just go around trampling the nests of all birds who have nests on the ground.
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Techno2000
Guest
Juveniles were fed by parents. Short females died or were fed by others. In any case, with no long necks in any of them they would die
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PetraG
Guest
The experts at this usually say that if humans were taken off of the planet today, domestic dogs would be largely doomed to extinction. They give cats a far better chance, although they say only a limited range of hair length and coat color would be likely to be preserved in the long run.What is left? Dogs.
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Techno2000
Guest
Yeah… they pinned the moths to a tree which they didn’t normally live on.I thought the moth study was a known example of being faulty/possibly fraudulent, sorta like piltdown man.
But I would imagine those arguing for creationism would know it to be so if true, so who knows
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PetraG
Guest
Were humans “waiting around” for treatments for juvenile diabetes? No. For C-sections? No. Before the environment changes, some individuals just die without reproducing. No one is “waiting around” for anything. When the mutuation coincides with an environment that allows it to be preserved or even makes the individuals carrying it more likely to pass it along, then there is a change.OK. First, you wait around millions of years to get fancy plumage so you can attract mates.
Then you wait around millions of years to develop camouflage so predators have a hard time finding you. But, mates also have a hard time finding you.
Then, you hang out with dinosaurs who just go around trampling the nests of all birds who have nests on the ground.
I think this is an extremely elegant way to have set up Creation, honestly.
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edwest211
Guest
Your photo! That’s i m p o s s i b l e !!
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Techno2000
Guest
You mean after it took evolution millions of years to build that long neck…but, by that time it would have already starved to death.In the case of a giraffe, the mutated individuals had an extra source of food: leaves no other animal could reach.
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buffalo
Guest
We see cases where a beneficial mutations confers an advantage, but even in those cases most of the time it negatively affects viability for the long run. Something more gets broken.We’re saying the same thing. The mutations just happen. Most of the time, mutations are bad things. They louse up some protein that is needed and cripple the animal or make it non-viable.
Sometimes, though, a mutation can just affect some small thing like neck length or whether the hair is straight or curly or the shape of the teeth. Maybe it affects it a little; maybe it affects it a lot. The individuals that have that difference will, under some circumstances, have an advantage. In the case of a giraffe, the mutated individuals had an extra source of food: leaves no other animal could reach. Maybe its descendants go through another mutation, and some of them can get all the leaves they want but are bad at getting to grass, they’re so tall. Kill the trees, those individuals might be toast, but as long as there are trees that only those tall organisms can get to, they have found themselves an environmental niche.
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PetraG
Guest
You’re just being difficult now.You mean after it took evolution millions of years to build that long neck…but, by that time it would have already starved to death.
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buffalo
Guest
Many return to the wildtype - wolves.The experts at this usually say that if humans were taken off of the planet today, domestic dogs would be largely doomed to extinction. They give cats a far better chance, although they say only a limited range of hair length and coat color would be likely to be preserved in the long run.
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buffalo
Guest
It is worse. The heart and circulatory system have deal with the pressure changes when a giraffe reaches high and then low. It has special sensing on the neck to deal with the pressure changes.You mean after it took evolution millions of years to build that long neck…but, by that time it would have already starved to death.
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PetraG
Guest
Yes, domestic dogs and wolves are interfertile. I think the experts mean that it wouldn’t take long before anything that remotely resembled a Yorkie had gone extinct. Based on interactions I’ve seen, big dogs are more likely to try to kill strange and tiny dogs than to try to breed with them.
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edwest211
Guest
You make too much sense. Keep it up.
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edwest211
Guest
Or maybe the early giraffes only ate from short trees.
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