Is Darwin's Theory of Evolution True? Part 4.1

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The white sheep can’t reproduce if there are no white sheep. What happens is that, because of its reproductive advantage, the mutation causing pinkishness and bumpheadedness spreads through the population until all of the population is pinkish and bumpheaded. Now there are no white sheep in the population (sad, innit?) and all the sheep are happy, contented, pinkish and bumpheaded.
 
PickyPicky said:
the mutation causing pinkishness and bumpheadedness spreads through the population until all of the population is pinkish and bumpheaded.
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So,it’s kinda like all the white sheep caught the same random pinkishness bumpheadedness mutation disease. 🤔
 
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Well, this is the first I’ve heard of a disease. If the mutation confers a reproductive advantage, that means more of the next generation are likely to carry the mutation, and fewer are likely to carry the unmutated gene. So more are pinkish, fewer are white.

Next generation, both white and pinkish sheep are breeding, but because of the reproductive advantage, even more of the offspring are likely to carry the mutation, and even fewer the unmutated gene. So even more are pinkish, even fewer are white.

Still what white sheep there are keep breeding, and so do the pinkish ones, but because of the reproductive advantage of the mutation, with each generation more of the population carries the mutation, fewer carry the unmutated gene.

Many generations down the line all of the population carries the mutation, and none of the sheep carry the unmutated gene. Now we have an entire pinkish population. Not a white sheep to be seen. White sheep in this population have died out.
 
Oh, are they? You didn’t tell me they had become different species. In that case the two species could simply continue to coexist (this is the “if dinosaurs became birds how come there were dinosaurs and birds at the same time” situation). In just such a way has the number of species multiplied.

Limited resources or other environmental factors could wipe one or both of them out, of course.
 
If they have become separate species, as you now tell me, then the situation is quite different. Separate species, go their own way. No particular reason in that for the white sheep to die out. Why did you think they were going to die out?
 
Techno and I were struggling through what I hope was a good-humoured and constructive conversation.
 
Techno2000 said:
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PickyPicky:
If your hypothetical situation doesn’t involve a reproductive advantage it won’t involve evolution.
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Even if it did, how would that cause the Die out of the regular white sheep ?
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You live in New Oreans don’t you? I’ll be there for a few days from the middle of next week. We really should meet up and I could explain this stuff to you in person. I was going to say meet for a beer but I get the impression you are a lot younger than 21. Anyway, the offer is there…
 
PickyPicky said:
Oh, are they? You didn’t tell me they had become different species. In that case the two species could simply continue to coexist (this is the “if dinosaurs became birds how come there were dinosaurs and birds at the same time” situation). In just such a way has the number of species multiplied.

Limited resources or other environmental factors could wipe one or both of them out, of course.
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Could Indohyus and Pakicetus interbreed ?
 
Bradskii said:
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Techno2000:
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PickyPicky:
If your hypothetical situation doesn’t involve a reproductive advantage it won’t involve evolution.
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Even if it did, how would that cause the Die out of the regular white sheep ?
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You live in New Oreans don’t you? I’ll be there for a few days from the middle of next week. We really should meet up and I could explain this stuff to you in person. I was going to say meet for a beer but I get the impression you are a lot younger than 21. Anyway, the offer is there…
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Well if you saw where I’m from, then you must have saw my age also, so I can only extrapolate that your post is to mock me.
 
PickyPicky said:
but my expectation would be that they could not interbreed
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So, I would say in the same way that the pinkish bump head sheep couldn’t interbreed with the white sheep, so you are back to square one in trying to explain how the white sheep would die out.
 
Yep, I’ve agreed that if they are now separate species they can’t interbreed. Why has one of them got to die out? If environmental considerations don’t wipe one or both of them out, they would simply continue to exist, just as the thousands of species of birds exist.
 
Techno2000 said:
Well if you saw where I’m from, then you must have saw my age also, so I can only extrapolate that your post is to mock me.
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No, I missed the age. So we can meet up for a beer. I know a nice pub in Algiers Point. The Crown and Anchor. Know it? I’m keen to know if you really do not understand any of this. It would make sense if you understood it but didn’t believe it. But not being able to grasp it at all? I find that extraordinarily difficult to come to terms with.

They do a nice London Pride on tap. My shout.
 
PickyPicky said:
Yep, I’ve agreed that if they are now separate species they can’t interbreed. Why has one of them got to die out? If environmental considerations don’t wipe one or both of them out, they would simply continue to exist, just as the thousands of species of birds exist.
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Darwin’s theory says that every previous transitional form wasn’t fit for its new environment and a new transitional form was better fit and out competed the previous organism causing it to die out.If this wasn’t the case then we should be seeing every transitional form of animal still alive.Bird species aren’t transitional forms.
 
Well, no, I think you are mistaken. It is not necessarily the case that the species in Generation A dies out because of the success of Generation A+1. Moreover you haven’t shown that the pinkish sheep is a better fit: we established no reproductive advantage that we could identify in pinkishness.
Techno2000 said:
If this wasn’t the case then we should be seeing every transitional form of animal still alive.
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No, species go extinct all the time, and always have done as far as we can see.
Techno2000 said:
Bird species aren’t transitional forms.
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We could get into an argument here about what “transitional” means. But let’s not.
 
So, if I apply enough environmental pressure, could I get teenagers to evolve?
 
That’s right. Two identical birds exist in the United States but live on different coasts and can’t interbreed. Different species? They’re both birds.
 
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