Is diabolical possession a fact or a myth?

[Solmyr]

Where does it come from?

It does not “come” from any specific place. The question of “nature” vs. “nurture” cannot be solved in a universal manner. Some people are born with a deformed mind, and enjoy torturing others. And exposing someone in their formative years to a certain value system (racial hatred of the KKK) can twist and deform their value system.

And what distinguishes good from evil?

Get serious.

As soon as some of you can capture a demon and places it into bottle (like those poor genies) let’s get together and make faces at them.

 

[tonyrey]

It does not “come” from any specific place. The question of “nature” vs. “nurture” cannot be solved in a universal manner. Some people are born with a deformed mind, and enjoy torturing others. And exposing someone in their formative years to a certain value system (racial hatred of the KKK) can twist and deform their value system.

If evil is caused by having a deformed mind no one is responsible for all the evil in the world…

And what distinguishes good from evil?

Get serious.

As soon as some of you can capture a demon and places it into bottle (like those poor genies) let’s get together and make faces at them.

Can we capture a mind in a bottle? If not why not?

 

[Vivian42]

I think the most terrifying thing about them is the fact that they exist and can tempt anyone, even Our Lord. If we take note of St Peter’s warning they are indeed like lions in their power to lead us astray if we become complacent and think we’re immune…

Regardless of religion it amounts to believing in the distinction between good and evil - and we are not the only forms of life in the whole of Creation. The power of malevolence is not something we can write off easily…

In my opinion good and evil are only representative of intention. A person (or intelligent entity) can’t be inherently evil or good. That’s what the world around us teaches us. And even a little introspection. And well…it’s generally extremely complicated and you can’t just put things in 2 boxes (good and evil). There are billions of combinations between the two. And if you dig in even deeper you’ll see that they’re only constructed ideas. I know that you people don’t usually agree with this point of view but evil and good are very much relative, at least here on Earth. And we’re not talking about Heaven politics. The easiest example is found in the wild: for a predator’s prey getting eaten is the worst evil , but for the predator is the absolute good.
So … if entities alike to demons exist, I doubt we’d be able to apply our understanding of our physical world on theirs. It’s most likely very different and strange.
Therefore we’re quite screwed.

 

[Sarcelle]

Of course, what I gonna tell you is not a real “possession”, but still…

Every time I get close enough to God and become really devout, “something” in my subconsciousness rebels against this and starts trying to pull me back. My speaking blasphemies against the Lord in my mind. By making me suddenly make absolutely wild and crazy deeds. And I sincerely do not wish all this, but it is extremely hard to resist!

If this is not the devil, I don’t know what it is.

Sometimes the more you try to not to speak blasphemous thoughts in your mind the more you do it. It’s like not trying to think of a white rabbit. The more you try not to the more you do. Jesus said to Saint Faustina that our thoughts or emotions are not always under our control so He understood the trials we go through.

 

[tonyrey]

In my opinion good and evil are only representative of intention. A person (or intelligent entity) can’t be inherently evil or good. That’s what the world around us teaches us. And even a little introspection. And well…it’s generally extremely complicated and you can’t just put things in 2 boxes (good and evil). There are billions of combinations between the two. And if you dig in even deeper you’ll see that they’re only constructed ideas. I know that you people don’t usually agree with this point of view but evil and good are very much relative, at least here on Earth. And we’re not talking about Heaven politics. The easiest example is found in the wild: for a predator’s prey getting eaten is the worst evil , but for the predator is the absolute good.
So … if entities alike to demons exist, I doubt we’d be able to apply our understanding of our physical world on theirs. It’s most likely very different and strange.
Therefore we’re quite screwed.

If good and evil are only constructed ideas a criminal’s view is just as acceptable as that of a person with integrity…

 

[Vivian42]

If good and evil are only constructed ideas a criminal’s view is just as acceptable as that of a person with integrity…

No , it’s not. I’m sure that criminal would scream “evil!” if another criminal would attack and torture him. Everyone is a victim at least once in their lifetime. It’s about the relation dominator-dominated. Just a social construct to protect from chaos.

Well, back to the main topic. I have a question regarding demons. Can you provoke one long enough so that it appears?

 

[Joelle_M]

No , it’s not. I’m sure that criminal would scream “evil!” if another criminal would attack and torture him. Everyone is a victim at least once in their lifetime. It’s about the relation dominator-dominated. Just a social construct to protect from chaos.

Well, back to the main topic. I have a question regarding demons. Can you provoke one long enough so that it appears?

As a child, my parents always told us that if you play with fire, you’re bound to eventually get burned. So I always believed that yes, If you asked for it for long enough- satan would eventually appear to you. Having learned what I’ve learned over the years, I now believe it’s much more complicated than that. If you call on the devil- he will come to you- but it may be in a way that is too subtle for you to realize. He is cunning. Think of it this way- a demon can not act on his own- not without the express permission of God (think of the story of Job). God gave him permission to do “THIS”- but he was given his instructions not to do “THAT”. Satan acted purely within the limits of what God permitted.

Satan is no idiot. He knows that most of us would run screaming into the church if he were to appear to us when we asked him to. So why would he do that? It’d be counter productive for him to show people beyond any doubt that he is real- because in doing so people would realize God is also real. It’s much better to keep people in the dark.

 

[JapaneseKappa]

M.Scott Peck’s book *People of the Lie *is instructive.

A psychiatrist, Peck attended several exorcisms as a skeptic; but later, based on his observations of the ones being exorcised, he expressed his conviction that demonic possession is a fact.

Why possession occurs is anybody’s guess. Peck seems to think that the victims of possession have somehow given themselves over to possession by consent. This would be to surrender to the supreme lie that evil is preferable to good.

M.Scott Peck has been pretty widely criticized, e.g. in the NCR:

natcath.org/NCR_Online/archives2/2005b/042905/042905m.htm

 

[JapaneseKappa]

Can we capture a mind in a bottle? If not why not?

No, because we don’t have good enough bottles yet. There are serious people thinking about bottling minds, but I have never heard of any serious people who think that demons are likely real, let alone thinking about the process of bottling them.

 

[Vivian42]

As a child, my parents always told us that if you play with fire, you’re bound to eventually get burned. So I always believed that yes, If you asked for it for long enough- satan would eventually appear to you. Having learned what I’ve learned over the years, I now believe it’s much more complicated than that. If you call on the devil- he will come to you- but it may be in a way that is too subtle for you to realize. He is cunning. Think of it this way- a demon can not act on his own- not without the express permission of God (think of the story of Job). God gave him permission to do “THIS”- but he was given his instructions not to do “THAT”. Satan acted purely within the limits of what God permitted.

Satan is no idiot. He knows that most of us would run screaming into the church if he were to appear to us when we asked him to. So why would he do that? It’d be counter productive for him to show people beyond any doubt that he is real- because in doing so people would realize God is also real. It’s much better to keep people in the dark.

What?! No. Not if a gun is pointed at my head.
Do you understand how it’s like to want to desperately know (emphasis on know, not believe) if there is a spiritual side to everything? I won’t give up for anything my knowledge and ability to know more. I certainly refuse to stay in the dark.
And actually I think it would be much better to be a little scared of a “spooky” demon for a few minutes than never know if they do exist or not. I don’t trust anything anybody says until I see/experience it or have enough proof to believe in it. Nobody can promise me that I’ll stay awake after death and not “experience” nothingness.
Yeah, basically I want to get burned very badly. Very. If that means that I’ll know. So…what do you know?

 

[Joelle_M]

What?! No. Not if a gun is pointed at my head.
Do you understand how it’s like to want to desperately know (emphasis on know, not believe) if there is a spiritual side to everything? I won’t give up for anything my knowledge and ability to know more. I certainly refuse to stay in the dark.
And actually I think it would be much better to be a little scared of a “spooky” demon for a few minutes than never know if they do exist or not. I don’t trust anything anybody says until I see/experience it or have enough proof to believe in it. Nobody can promise me that I’ll stay awake after death and not “experience” nothingness.
Yeah, basically I want to get burned very badly. Very. If that means that I’ll know. So…what do you know?

LoL- I get what you’re saying. And I agree! I think not believing is dangerous because you are left defenceless.
I don’t think- however, that it’s a good thing to seek it out. If you’re going to go in search of some kind of proof- focus on God instead- he won’t have to burn you to show you the way

 

[Vivian42]

LoL- I get what you’re saying. And I agree! I think not believing is dangerous because you are left defenceless.
I don’t think- however, that it’s a good thing to seek it out. If you’re going to go in search of some kind of proof- focus on God instead- he won’t have to burn you to show you the way

I think that’s part of the plan either way. So I’m willing to take the risk.
Oh, and looking at it from a different perspective…possession for the individual is extremely unsettling. You’re basically experiencing death for a short amount of time, then again, again and again…because you literally get ejected out of the body every time. The hell Not knowing and nothingness are really not nice. Death is also not nice.
Although, I believe you said something about having experience with this. Do you mind sharing a little bit? Or is that against forum rules?

 

[Joelle_M]

I think that’s part of the plan either way. So I’m willing to take the risk.
Oh, and looking at it from a different perspective…possession for the individual is extremely unsettling. You’re basically experiencing death for a short amount of time, then again, again and again…because you literally get ejected out of the body every time. The hell Not knowing and nothingness are really not nice. Death is also not nice.
Although, I believe you said something about having experience with this. Do you mind sharing a little bit? Or is that against forum rules?

Why are you looking for confirmation that there is a God by going in search of the one who wishes to destroy you? Don’t you realize that you can safely get all of the answers you want by just opening yourself up to God and letting him in? Why would you ever want to subject yourself to the physical and spiritual torture a demon would inflict?

 

[Vivian42]

Why are you looking for confirmation that there is a God by going in search of the one who wishes to destroy you? Don’t you realize that you can safely get all of the answers you want by just opening yourself up to God and letting him in? Why would you ever want to subject yourself to the physical and spiritual torture a demon would inflict?

Because it seems like the easier way . I saw many devoted people here that still aren’t able to sense God/good angels in any way. I also don’t agree with the Church on many issues and I honestly don’t recognize it as a real power. I have yet to see something convincing coming from the Church.
Therefore, if demons exist they are much more closer to humanity than God will ever be , in my opinion. We’re both low and sinful creatures. God fixes himself/herself only on the positive aspect of life, at least that’s how Christianity makes me see it. Although everything around us is a mix of opposite forces , somehow evil can’t be accepted in any way. I don’t buy that.
Also, you can’t know if they would torture me or not. Maybe they find some interest in me.

 

[JapaneseKappa]

If demonic possessions are real, then so are kappas

 

[Josie33]

For all those interested, you can read personal testimonies of demonic possession and the power of Jesus Christ in the solemn rite of exorcism here.

You will see that they were all possessed as a result of engaging in New Age practices, the occult, satanism and/or Buddhism which are violations of the First Commandment – sins of idolatry.

I pray that none of us would engage in any practice that would not only gravely offend Our Lord, but also put our precious souls in peril. He is near to all of us, if we seek him we will find him:

“From there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find him if you search for him with all your heart and soul.” Deuteronomy 4:29

“I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.” Proverbs 8:17

“When you search for me, you will find me; if you seek me with all your heart.” Jeremiah 29:13

" From one ancestor he made all nations to inhabit the whole earth, and he allotted the times of their existence and the boundaries of the places where they would live, so that they would search for God and perhaps grope for him and find him – though indeed he is not far from each one of us." Acts 17:26-27

God bless

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Am I the only one who finds it so incredibly ODD that there are people here (especially people who call themselves Christians or Catholic) who DON’T believe in the existence of demons? 5 pages of debate on this topic? In a “Christian” forum???

Seriously, if you don’t believe in it, what are you doing at church then?

The supernatural goes BOTH ways. Good or bad. Why do people always chalk this stuff up to lunacy? Why do they never discuss it or talk about it freely? I think its lunacy NOT to believe in the supernatural, and those who don’t have cold dead worldly hearts. There has always been since the beginning of humanity documented events that point to the supernatural being real. This does not mean that everything deemed supernatural is real, as yes, people can play with science and technology to create effects, and yes, individuals can be mentally ill or having delusions. And yes, there were times when because of ignorance about certain natural events people mistook them as supernatural. (Which I believe still can happen this day and age) But just like how my two friends and I saw a cat run across a road and disappear, (a ghost cat) you can’t tell me the supernatural isn’t real. No such thing as 3 people hallucinating the same thing at the same time. Especially when it wasn’t prompted by anything like suggestive talk.

People never talk about it with others freely. That’s always been very strange to me. Especially when I hear Christians touting themselves being Christian… you’d think they’d discuss it for fear someone’s soul might get led astray. The Bible speaks of ‘testing the spirits to see if they are from God’… well who knows anymore how to do that now that we’ve hushed all those old believer’s concerns and chalked it up to superstition, old age lunacy? I tell you those who do anger God. I have no doubts about it.

I believe this is serious reason why churches keep loosing believers to the New Age practices...  The churches have basically made everything so mundane and secular, there is nothing supernatural about worshiping God anymore.   Just coffee, doughnuts, scripture, sermon and conversation on Sunday and rush home to catch the game on tv.   New Age is practically the only thing out there that offers some sort of sense of the supernatural.   I'd be willing to bet that all those would-be nuns and would-be monks friars and brothers have gone to it instead of the dry, we-want-"god"-but-not-the-creepy-scary-stuff-that-goes-with-it  church.   :mad:   A church that doesn't believe in the supernatural is a dead church.

Jesus says if you are LUKEWARM he’ll spit you out of His mouth. Jesus Himself mentions demons as being real. If you say you are a Christian, why would you not believe what HE says? Doing anything else is lukewarm!!! **You should not call yourself a believer or a Christian if you don’t. **

 

[AnneElizabeth]

What?! No. Not if a gun is pointed at my head.
Do you understand how it’s like to want to desperately know (emphasis on know, not believe) if there is a spiritual side to everything? I won’t give up for anything my knowledge and ability to know more. I certainly refuse to stay in the dark.
And actually I think it would be much better to be a little scared of a “spooky” demon for a few minutes than never know if they do exist or not. I don’t trust anything anybody says until I see/experience it or have enough proof to believe in it. Nobody can promise me that I’ll stay awake after death and not “experience” nothingness.
Yeah, basically I want to get burned very badly. Very. If that means that I’ll know. So…what do you know?

I respect your passion in searching for truth,…

… however Scripture says Blessed are those who have believed but did not see… so keep that in mind. May God keep you safe on your travels though. Keep in mind that when you climb Mount Everest, if you make it out alive, you could come back maimed for life. Just a fair warning to you, with charity. Some things you can’t unsee or unknow and to just believe what Jesus says is truly easier and the only thing needed.

Also, you really do not know or have any idea if you’d only come out being “‘a little scared’ of a ‘spooky’ demon for a few minutes” . Have you ever heard of psychological trauma and its effects? You really think if this is real that it would only effect you for a few minutes? I swear to you, if you experienced it to be real and if you are a real ‘thinking’ person as you say, you would have to change your thinking on many many beliefs. Hah, and when you do, people will not think well of you anymore. They’ll think you’ve lost your marbles.

Much easier journey just to believe what Jesus says. But as I said, I admire your spunk and passion… May the Holy Spirit guide you to truth and may Jesus keep you safe.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Why are you looking for confirmation that there is a God by going in search of the one who wishes to destroy you? Don’t you realize that you can safely get all of the answers you want by just opening yourself up to God and letting him in? Why would you ever want to subject yourself to the physical and spiritual torture a demon would inflict?

Joelle M,

I understand the reasons why… The church is mostly dead spiritually… everywhere. Its mundane and the behavior of the people inside is that of ones who lack total respect for God, nor believe. With churches full of spiritually dead people, who is going to recognize that which is of God there in them (even if He is) ? The only other way is through the occult. Its why its so rampant these days… and I speak from experience, from how I fell away from the church years ago. I did not know God through church. How sad is that?
How did that happen? It happened because of lukewarmness and secular social mundane 'niceness' standing in for real true holiness. Man respect rather than GOD respect- it leaves a hunger for real supernatural- one way or the other for those who are truly seeking and needing something more to life than the mundane. Do we need a savior or not? !

 

[Dorothy]

Am I the only one who finds it so incredibly ODD that there are people here (especially people who call themselves Christians or Catholic) who DON’T believe in the existence of demons? 5 pages of debate on this topic? In a “Christian” forum???

Seriously, if you don’t believe in it, what are you doing at church then?

The supernatural goes BOTH ways. Good or bad. Why do people always chalk this stuff up to lunacy? Why do they never discuss it or talk about it freely? I think its lunacy NOT to believe in the supernatural, and those who don’t have cold dead worldly hearts. There has always been since the beginning of humanity documented events that point to the supernatural being real. This does not mean that everything deemed supernatural is real, as yes, people can play with science and technology to create effects, and yes, individuals can be mentally ill or having delusions. And yes, there were times when because of ignorance about certain natural events people mistook them as supernatural. (Which I believe still can happen this day and age) But just like how my two friends and I saw a cat run across a road and disappear, (a ghost cat) you can’t tell me the supernatural isn’t real. No such thing as 3 people hallucinating the same thing at the same time. Especially when it wasn’t prompted by anything like suggestive talk.

People never talk about it with others freely. That’s always been very strange to me. Especially when I hear Christians touting themselves being Christian… you’d think they’d discuss it for fear someone’s soul might get led astray. The Bible speaks of ‘testing the spirits to see if they are from God’… well who knows anymore how to do that now that we’ve hushed all those old believer’s concerns and chalked it up to superstition, old age lunacy? I tell you those who do anger God. I have no doubts about it.

I believe this is serious reason why churches keep loosing believers to the New Age practices...  The churches have basically made everything so mundane and secular, there is nothing supernatural about worshiping God anymore.   Just coffee, doughnuts, scripture, sermon and conversation on Sunday and rush home to catch the game on tv.   New Age is practically the only thing out there that offers some sort of sense of the supernatural.   I'd be willing to bet that all those would-be nuns and would-be monks friars and brothers have gone to it instead of the dry, we-want-"god"-but-not-the-creepy-scary-stuff-that-goes-with-it  church.   :mad:   A church that doesn't believe in the supernatural is a dead church.

Jesus says if you are LUKEWARM he’ll spit you out of His mouth. Jesus Himself mentions demons as being real. If you say you are a Christian, why would you not believe what HE says? Doing anything else is lukewarm!!! **You should not call yourself a believer or a Christian if you don’t. **

No, you are not the only one who sees that catechesis on the fall of the angels has been neglected. I am a senior, senior citizen now, and am grateful that my priest when I was about eight years of age explained about the rebellion of the angels, and them using their free will to not serve the Lord.

And, there are some priests that do talk about such things, a few who are secular priests, and the rest are retreat masters at monasteries. Those fallen angels are on a “leash” and can only hurt us when we allow ourselves to get too close to them.

Our youth needs to know about the danger of playing certain games, and getting curious about why we can’t/shouldn’t do certain things. (astrology, etc.)

Thank you for your post.

Dorothy

Thank you for your post!