Is downloading music always sinful?

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yet to see any one refer me to a law preventing a person from downloading music. I’ve yet to see a lawsuit waged against a person who downloaded, but did not distribute, copyrighted music.

{snip}

Despite the propoganda, I’ve yet to see anyone produce an instance of a music downloader sued or convicted of a crime.

Jeremy
to quote an earlier post:

So the industry started taking legal action against individual computer users it accuses of illegally downloading music – 21,000 people since 2003.oregonlive.com/news/orego…260.xml&coll=7

here’s an excerpt from the article linked above:
Woman: I’m no music pirate
Suit - A Beaverton mom says the record industry terrorized her with bogus claims
Wednesday, June 27, 2007
ASHBEL S. GREEN
The Oregonian Staff
A disabled single mother from Beaverton has filed a federal lawsuit against the Recording Industry Association of America, claiming that she is the victim of abusive legal tactics, threats and illegal spying as part of an overzealous campaign to crack down on music pirating.
The recording industry sued Tanya J. Andersen, 44, in 2005, accusing her of violating copyright laws by illegally downloading music onto her computer. Andersen claims in a suit she filed last week in U.S. District Court in Oregon that the recording industry refused to drop its case after its own expert supported her claims of innocence.
Instead, industry officials threatened to interrogate Andersen’s 10-year-old daughter, Kylee, if she didn’t pay thousands of dollars. The intimidation included attempts to contact Kylee directly. A woman claiming to be Kylee’s grandmother called the girl’s former elementary school inquiring about her attendance, according to Andersen’s suit.
 
A Typical Teen’s Answer:

Don’t think that much. I think God has more important things to do then worry if you downloaded music that you already bought once.

Music should be free. That record companys should be thankful that we want to listen to their music. 🤷

Limewire is basicly “sharing” your music with other people. God likes sharing.

If I bought the cd, I should be able to give it away if I want. It is mine, after-all.
God may like sharing but he hates theft. Taking something that belongs to another without their permission is always morally wrong. It doesn’t matter how many excuses you attempt to justify it.
 
I recall the days when we bought lp’s (records), what the youth today call vinyl. The problem with vinyl was it was easily scratched or would warp and melt. So according to your attitude then after having purchased my record at the music store and after enjoying it for some time if for any reason it was scratched, warped, melted, lost or stolen I had every right to steal another since I had already paid for the original?

It’s still theft. It is common knowledge that downloading music off the internet without reimbursement to the artist/producers is punishable by law as theft - the word is piracy. Piracy or Theft is a sin.
Actually the question would be back in those days, if your record got damaged, would it have been immoral for you to make a cassette copy from your friend who had the same record. Doing so would be technically illegal, but would it be immoral?

I think it would be ok, but then the situation of downloading it from P2P becomes would it be moral to copy from someone who probably stole the record and is illegally giving out free copies to anyone who asks. I think this makes a big difference. It is like taking money from a bank robber to replace cash you lost when you were mugged.

For me the question is now that I think what I did was immoral even though I didn’t think it was at the time, am I morally obligated to get rid of music that I purchased that was stolen/lost/damaged that I replaced using P2P. I am going to say no since I did not think it was wrong at the time, I regret the mistake, and vow never to do it again in the future, and caused no financial loss to anyone.

Another thought I had is whether or not it is moral to make a mix tape for a friend from music you legally own. This is technically illegal, but practically you would never be prosecuted and I think that it would be acceptable morally.

P.S. Itunes is not a one time download, do you actually use it? You can delete it and re-download it, the stupid thing will prompt you to all the time if you don’t turn off the message. Anything you buy from Itunes can also be replaced after a hard drive crash, I don’t know why this is being denied. You simply have to log in to your Itunes account and authorize the PC to download it, sure it will count as a second PC and it only lets you download to 4 or 5 PC’s, but has anyone ever honestly lost your Itunes purchases from hard drive crashes that many times and not wised up and backed them up? Secondly you can get legal free software that will let you restore you Itunes library from your Ipod. In any case we should learn our lesson from this and back everything up, hard drives are not reliable. Counting on P2P is not the way to go.
 
P.S. Anything you buy from Itunes can be replaced after a hard drive crash, I don’t know why this is being denied. You simply have to log in to your Itunes account and authorize the PC to download it, sure it will count as a second PC and it only lets you download to 4 or 5 PC’s, but have honestly lost your Itunes purchase from hard drive crashes that many times? Secondly you can get legal free software that will let you restore you Itunes library from your Ipod. In any case we should learn our lesson from this and back everything up, hard drives are not reliable. Counting on P2P is not the way to go.
No, that is wrong. You can only download a song one time per purchase. If you lose a song you will have to repurchase it to get it again. From here:
When you buy a song or album from the iTunes Store, you are entitled to download it only once.
You can use iTunes to restore purchased music back to your computer, but if all your music isn’t on your iPod, this won’t work.

You should ALWAYS back up ALL your iTunes music. You never know when you will loose it.
 
OK, I didn’t realize it was coming from my Ipod and not Itunes after my hard drive crash, but that makes sense.

I do think that policy is downright criminal however if you didn’t have it on your Ipod and they had record of your purchase and they wouldn’t let you download it. Somebody will probably eventually sue them over something so ridiculous.

I am pretty sure other online music stores are not that shady. The Ipod is incredibly designed and has an incredible user interface, but Apple has some ridiculous restrictions on it that totally ruin it for me.

Anway lesson emphasized again, BACK EVERYTHING UP. I am going to start backing up my DVD collection as soon as I can as well in case something gets scratched, especially the kids movies. All this stuff costs way too much money not to.
 
I do think that policy is downright criminal however if you didn’t have it on your Ipod and they had record of your purchase and they wouldn’t let you download it. Somebody will probably eventually sue them over something so ridiculous.
I’m not sure why it would be criminal to have that policy. If I buy a CD and then somehow accidently lose or break it, if I have the receipt should I be able to go to Target and demand another CD? Isn’t that the same thing? I purchase the music and then I am responsible for taking care of it after it is in my possession.

And Apple has some of the lest restrictive DRM out there. And they are the first MAJOR online music store to offer music without DRM. (Yes, emusic also doesn’t but they don’t have major labels.) From all I’ve heard, they seem to be doing the most to do away with DRM altogether.
 
No, it is not the same thing. If you download the music and your PC crashes or a power surge fries it before you back it up or a virus attack wipes out the music etc. etc. you are up a creek? If it was a physical CD you take it back to the store and you get a replacement. Since there is nothing physical involved in the transaction there needs to be some type of consumer protection. There should be some time of time limit and there should be exceptions.
 
Somehow I can’t imagine walking into Target and saying “here is a CD I bought her. I accidentally stepped on it, can I have another one? Here is my receipt.” They would say too bad.

Why should it be any different with an online store. If I choose not to backup my music, like iTunes clearly tells me to do every time I buy something, then it is my own fault. Just like if I choose not to put my CD in a safe place and step on it, it is my own fault.

Sure it would be nice to be able to download a song again since it would be fairly easy, but I don’t see how it is criminal not to be able to either.
 
This is thread has gone completely off topic, but of course you could take back the CD you stepped on the store would give you a new one as a common courtesy. They would do it because they want you to shop there so they will typically exchange something for any reason, even user error, for some type of warranty period. I feel an online store should be even more lenient since they incur no financial loss for replacing merchandise while a physical store does. Maybe criminal is too harsh a word, but I don’t want to give my business to someone who is going to act like an @#@# if I have problem and have the attitude of too bad so sad.
 
This is thread has gone completely off topic, but of course you could take back the CD you stepped on the store would give you a new one as a common courtesy. They would do it because they want you to shop there so they will typically exchange something for any reason, even user error, for some type of warranty period. I feel an online store should be even more lenient since they incur no financial loss for replacing merchandise while a physical store does. Maybe criminal is too harsh a word, but I don’t want to give my business to someone who is going to act like an @#@# if I have problem and have the attitude of too bad so sad.
watch your language!
 
to quote an earlier post:

So the industry started taking legal action against individual computer users it accuses of illegally downloading music – 21,000 people since 2003.oregonlive.com/news/orego…260.xml&coll=7

here’s an excerpt from the article linked above:
And it’s completely unheard of for the mainstream media to get their facts wrong, right? 😉

Refer me to the legal briefs if you want to prove things 🙂

Jeremy
 
I used to download alot of stuff like everything from music to ps2 games but i stopped about 2 weeks ago and was thinking tis wrong.
I have since confessed and said i wont do it again.
But i really dont want to throw all of my stuff out if i have confessed and said i wont do it again could i just keep it and prevent the hassle of explaining to my parents why im throwing out all of my coppied stuff?
 
I will delete all my music that i downloaded.
But the game and movies are different my family is religious but no one belives downlaoding is a sin besides me and my brother who is 7 loves playing the games mainly the ones that i never bought if i threw them out id have to do alot of eplxaining and i would most probably end up putting them back because of this same goes for the movies.
If i were to leave them but never use them on my will would this be the same.
and i went to confession on saturday 4 days since and now ive chossen to destroy everything i can that i stole im going to confession on saturday again would i have to say i stole again even if i didnt after that i just held the stuff for 4 extra days???
Please someone reply i dont know.
 
Ok all my pirated music is gone the games havent been thrown out instead ive put them all in a big and in my computer cupboard so i will not be using them but neither will anyone else is this as good as throwing them away because im worried if i do i will get in trouble.
the movies however i dont care i wont watch them but i wont throw them out or touch them its their choice if they can watch something pirated fine just i wont.
have i completed my task in repenting?
ive been to confession + all the above.
also my computer has some software which is pirated like Microsoft Offiice and Power DVD and others there all over the place but i wont be wrecking through my computer until i formate the whole thing around xmas.
Nero is also there i will go on a hunt tommorow to see what ive got though.
But i cant get rid of office because i need it for school and office is about 250+au its money that i cant get that easily??
 
But i cant get rid of office because i need it for school and office is about 250+au its money that i cant get that easily??
I do understand your struggles with the whole downloading thing, I did it myself for awhile, although not as much it seems. I would say that keeping all the stuff is probably not the best idea. I mean if you stole money from the bank, is it enough to apologize for it and go to confession? Wouldn’t you turn it in too? Would it be ok to give it to someone else as long as you aren’t using the money? I do understand that it would be hard and place you in a difficult situation, but still… And if you are really that unsure, you can always ask your priest what he thinks.

But I do have a suggestion about MS Office. There is a great program called [link=[URL]http://www.openoffice.org/]Open[/URL] Office[/link]. It is basically a free version of MS Office and totally legal. You can even save and open things in the .doc format that MS Office uses. There are lots of open source programs out there, it means that the code is available to anyone to look at and to change and it almost always means they are free! 👍
 
Im downloading open office now.
I guess i should get rid of it even if i do it wont be the world i cant belive how much i rely on this computer now i got it only 2 years ago before then i didnt even have one and now i wish i never got one…
Well the microsoft application is anyway a overhyped thing if this thing Open Office is as good as MSO i wont ever buy it.
And i want to ask you are all the other stuff that ive done ok like putting my games that are coppied in a bag in a cupoard where no one will find them??and that i wont use.
 
But what i dont see is how stupid the laws are.
Its Ok to tape a radio station with music and listen to the music but downloading music isnt allowed its the exact same thing why should the law be different??
THey declined the compaines request to ban REC in VCR;s when they came out but this was declined and it was legeal to tape movies and shows. but why is it illegal to download a movie that was on like last night its the same thing.
Limewire is like a person giving you the software or etc for free what i dont get shouldnt it be against the law for your friend to give you say his copy of a program which he dosent need and you didnt paya cent for it even though he paid 400+$???That is what limewire is like no one is forcing the person to do it.
Also i thought that copy right laws were against selling and profiting of the companies product so why is it a sin to just download.
Also if a shop decides this old product has been here for years and wont sell and need to get rid of it they put it on so anyone can take one for free but the company still says the price there selling it for is 20au wouldnt this be violation.
Am i not right?
 
This is thread has gone completely off topic, but of course you could take back the CD you stepped on the store would give you a new one as a common courtesy. They would do it because they want you to shop there so they will typically exchange something for any reason, even user error, for some type of warranty period. I feel an online store should be even more lenient since they incur no financial loss for replacing merchandise while a physical store does. Maybe criminal is too harsh a word, but I don’t want to give my business to someone who is going to act like an @#@# if I have problem and have the attitude of too bad so sad.
The flaw in your whole argument about the lost downloads is that you didn’t pay for a CD, you paid for a one-time download and these are two completely different formats. This is significant because it costs companies money every time you download your individually purchased mp3 because you are using up bandwidth that other potential customers could be using. You are also paying a premium in order to purchase music on a song-by-song basis instead of having to buy the entire CD like we used to. Also, mp3s can be copied and transferred to several different devices, so they are more expensive because they are virtual and it’s possible that you could own one indefinitely(unlike CDs which wear out with time). It’s not fair to hold an online music company to the same standard as a retail chain because there is an inherent risk to purchasing a one time download(PC crashes, deletion, etc.). If you wanted the reliability of a CD, you should have bought one.

Oh, and you obviously have never tried returning any form of disc media to a store before or you would know that they accept NO RETURNS of any CD or DVD after the seal is broken. In other words, it is the attitude of “too bad so sad”. It’s difficult to get retailers to return any item nowadays without a receipt, much less something that you’ve clearly broken yourself.

As for the initial question about downloading the stolen songs, I really don’t think it’s morally right to do it. Just because you once owned a piece of art, literature, or music doesn’t mean that you’re entitled to it the rest of your life. You initially purchased the songs on a disc, knowing full well that they could get damaged. Yes, you could have legally backed them up, but you didn’t and now they’re gone. You owned them once, but now they are gone and if you want them back you should go out and replace them(there are many used CD shops out there with very reasonable prices).

CDs don’t last a lifetime, and the music industry expects you to buy new ones if yours get ruined, stolen, scratched, etc. The average person will probably buy the same CD at least two or three times in their lifetime. Heck, I’m on my second copy of at least 4 CDs now and I’m still young! If the music industry was selling you a lifelong ownership of the music contained on the CD, and not the just the CD itself, the price you paid would have been much more expensive. You didn’t buy the music, you bought the CD that holds the music. No CD, no more music.

Music, art, and literature are all intellectual property and the creator retains rights to that property. If you go out and buy a book, do you have a lifelong ownership of the story contained in that book regardless of format? No, you own one copy of that book, and when the book is gone, you are expected to go buy a new one. If you have a fire and all the books you own are burned do you have the right to go online and illegally download ebooks of everything you owned? No! So why do we think this applies to music? Well, unlike printed intellectual property, music can be easily uploaded, downloaded, and burned to CDs.

It’s not difficult to understand why illegal downloading is morally wrong, it’s difficult to accept that it’s wrong - because then you have to stop. :rolleyes:
 
I do not believe the “stealing is stealing” argument really works.

When you purchase a CD or download a song from iTunes you are purchasing two things, the a license to use the copyrighted material and the media itself. Consider the prices one pays for a CD:

New in the store: $15-$20.
At a pawn shop $2-$10
At a yard sale $1-$5.

All of this is legal (to the best of my knowledge) Now assuming the CD and jewel case are in excellent condition, that would mean the cost of the media would be constant. Does that mean the cost of the copyright license has dropped? It’s the same music. Why does it cost substantially less? Is one stealing a CD by paying $2 for it at a yard sale went the same CD in a store would cost $18?

Consider pawnshop prices of different CDs. A great U2 album might cost $10-$15, but the awful second album of a one hit wonder might only go for $2. That same awful album and the great U2 album would be priced almost exactly the same in a record store. The price of the media (CD, jewlcase, etc.) is constant. Why the change in price to purchase the copywright.

The above is all fine and kosher, but I doubt EMI or Vivendi would appreciate you downloading an album from a P2P and mailing them a check for $2.

Consider concerts. A truly wonderful band might have tickets scalped at prices approaching $1000. But if the venue is outdoors someone a couple of blocks down might be able to enjoy the concert for free. Is this stealing?

Another poster mentioned records out of production. Some recording companies still hold the copyrights (which, unlike patents never expire) but have no interest in producing the music. If I rip that music to an MP3 and then give it to family and friends, am I stealing? I already own a copy and in the case of an original LP from the 30s and 40s it may be worth quite a bit of money.

The law surrounding music sharing is very murky. Do I personally feel downloading a song that was already purchased, but lost, damaged, or stolen is immoral. No. Do I personally believe the wholesale downloading of music for free is immoral. Yes. Are there gray areas in between. Yes. But like the eating of meat sacrificed to idols described in St. Paul’s letter to the Corinthians, it’s an area where each person has to make that choice of what they believe is sinful.
 
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