Is Eating Meat Hedonistic?

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Things often begin for one reason–and continue for another. I think modern society has gone off course and needs to reconnect to Mother Earth, and what is in the best interests of the people and the planet. Meat consumption/production has a lot of negative consequences to the planet, to it’s resources, and to individual health. Is eating meat hedonistic? Absolutely. It’s all about pleasure and luxury.
 
Marfran said:
Things often begin for one reason–and continue for another. I think modern society has gone off course and needs to reconnect to Mother Earth, and what is in the best interests of the people and the planet. Meat consumption/production has a lot of negative consequences to the planet, to it’s resources, and to individual health. Is eating meat hedonistic? Absolutely. It’s all about pleasure and luxury.
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I always try to remember that I didn’t always have this information and make this choice either - and so try to offer the information to others as it now resonates with me. And at first it seemed really difficult, but has become so easy. I would love to be a resource for anyone interested in making a change to a plant based diet. Especially those for whom this choice resonates with their faith as it has for me. 🙂
 
Marfran said:
Things often begin for one reason–and continue for another. I think modern society has gone off course and needs to reconnect to Mother Earth, and what is in the best interests of the people and the planet. Meat consumption/production has a lot of negative consequences to the planet, to it’s resources, and to individual health. Is eating meat hedonistic? Absolutely. It’s all about pleasure and luxury.
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New Age alert!!

The phase “Mother Earth” being used in this way should be associated only with veganism and new agers, an odd perversion of faith in the one true God.

The importance you place on your opinions do not make them part of Truth. They are still your opinions, and contrary to the teaching of the one True Church established by God.
 
Sean_Boyle said:
New Age alert!!

The phase “Mother Earth” being used in this way should be associated only with veganism and new agers, an odd perversion of faith in the one true God.

The importance you place on your opinions do not make them part of Truth. They are still your opinions, and contrary to the teaching of the one True Church established by God.
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My term *Mother Earth, *a common metaphorical expression for the Earth. It in no way detracts from God. God made Mother Earth didn’t He??? I think they even use that expression in one of your butter commercials–or is it a margarine commercial?
 
Sean_Boyle said:
New Age alert!!

The phase “Mother Earth” being used in this way should be associated only with veganism and new agers, an odd perversion of faith in the one true God.

The importance you place on your opinions do not make them part of Truth. They are still your opinions, and contrary to the teaching of the one True Church established by God.
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I feel pretty certain that Marfran’s use of this is in context of the One True God’s creation - since it is in keeping with everything else she has posted…

Sean, do I remember you had some problem with what the US Conference of Catholic Bishops as they were partners in the Catholic Coalition of Climate Change catholicsandclimatechange.org/ ?

I could have you confused with someone else, (if I do sorry :o) however I think you had dismissed this information and the US Conference of Catholic Bishops relationship to the issue, As Bishop Wenski (Orlando), Chairman of the USCCB Committee on International Justice and Peace emphasized at a press conference: “The real “inconvenient truth” is that those who contribute least to climate change will be affected the most and have the least capacity to cope or escape.”

And to clarify ‘veganism’ is not necessarily synonymous with ‘new age’ - I am a Catholic Vegan - I don’t eat meat, poultry, fish, honey, eggs or dairy - don’t use leather, silk or wool - and I am a practicing Catholic 🙂
 
4elise said:
And to clarify ‘veganism’ is not necessarily synonymous with ‘new age’ - I am a Catholic Vegan - I don’t eat meat, poultry, fish, honey, eggs or dairy - don’t use leather, silk or wool - and I am a practicing Catholic 🙂
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My apologies to the original post for taking this off context :o - was just trying to respond to Sean’s comments - sorry
 
Sean_Boyle said:
New Age alert!!

The phase “Mother Earth” being used in this way should be associated only with veganism and new agers, an odd perversion of faith in the one true God.

The importance you place on your opinions do not make them part of Truth. They are still your opinions, and contrary to the teaching of the one True Church established by God.
Click to expand...
So true-I thought I wandered into a New Age forum by mistake…strange how vegans and other assorted lefties always want to impose THEIR choices and philosophies on the REST of us…reflects their totalitarian impulses I suppose.

The Christ"never drove a car either"arguement is specious and absurd.A vegan appealing to the "meat is hedonistic(therefore a sin)"arguement is trying shut down discussion and opposition to that PERSONAL choice that they wish to IMPOSE on all.Typical liberal/leftist arguementation. :rolleyes:
 
Soutane said:
So true-I thought I wandered into a New Age forum by mistake…strange how vegans and other assorted lefties always want to impose THEIR choices and philosophies on the REST of us…reflects their totalitarian impulses I suppose.

The Christ"never drove a car either"arguement is specious and absurd.A vegan appealing to the "meat is hedonistic(therefore a sin)"arguement is trying shut down discussion and opposition to that PERSONAL choice that they wish to IMPOSE on all.Typical liberal/leftist arguementation. :rolleyes:
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— sigh — Soutane - I would love to have a discussion with you about this - without name calling and insults – My choice to remove animals from my food or other use is the result of my understanding of Catholic Social Teaching as applied to my life as a Catholic American, who 1) has learned about this issue 2) can make the choice to omit meat because there is no impediment to do so, health or otherwise.

I have no desire to impose my choice on anyone - I am however happy to share what I’ve learned about meat production, issues related to resources, pollution, etc. with anyone who wants to have an honest discussion - without putting people in ‘boxes’ or labeling them. – Since this resonates with my Catholic faith, I believe CFA is a great place to have this honest discussion. However, sadly often these discussions go the way of your post imposing labels on people who don’t agree with you.
 
The question was:Is eating meat hedonistic?Hedonism is sinful as we all know.Ergo,if one agrees that eating meat is hedonistic then logically ALL meat eaters are sinning by doing so.Quite a neat little arguement which is quite typical of liberal arguementation-create a “motherhood” issue,embrace it the demonize your opponents if they DARE disagree.I could care less about your eating habits my dear,but I DO object to strawman arguementation.Philosophically,I find it repugnant.
 
Soutane said:
The question was:Is eating meat hedonistic?Hedonism is sinful as we all know.Ergo,if one agrees that eating meat is hedonistic then logically ALL meat eaters are sinning by doing so.Quite a neat little arguement which is quite typical of liberal arguementation-create a “motherhood” issue,embrace it the demonize your opponents if they DARE disagree.I could care less about your eating habits my dear,but I DO object to strawman arguementation.Philosophically,I find it repugnant.
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So what are the incentives for meat consumption (other than pleasure) that make it a better diet than vegetarianism? I have listed some factors (you may add more) that you should address in your response.
 
Soutane said:
The question was:Is eating meat hedonistic?Hedonism is sinful as we all know. Ergo,if one agrees that eating meat is hedonistic then logically ALL meat eaters are sinning by doing so.
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I have no idea what the CCC says, but I’ll grant you that for a Catholic, hedonism is sinful.
I assume the RCC holds that meat eating is not sinful since it is allowed. Thus, meat eating cannot be hedonistic (except to excess or gluttony). If an agnostic can follow this logical syllogism, I can only assume the OP was merely expressing a personal opinion and not trying to challenge the RCC.
Quite a neat little arguement which is quite typical of liberal arguementation-create a “motherhood” issue,embrace it the demonize your opponents if they DARE disagree.I could care less about your eating habits my dear,but I DO object to strawman arguementation.Philosophically,I find it repugnant.
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You’re doing great a great job of introducing your own strawman fallacies. No one in this thread has tried to make it a “motherhood issue”. No one has demonized anyone. Your attempt at poisoning the well by slinging around epitaphs like “lefties” and “New Age” fails dismally. There are plenty of crunchy cons wordspy.com/words/crunchycon.asp like me, who are about as right-wing as you can get, yet care about environmental and animal concerns.
 
Michaelo said:
So what are the incentives for meat consumption (other than pleasure) that make it a better diet than vegetarianism? I have listed some factors (you may add more) that you should address in your response.
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Michaelo, well stated. 🙂
 
Soutane said:
So true-I thought I wandered into a New Age forum by mistake…strange how vegans and other assorted lefties always want to impose THEIR choices and philosophies on the REST of us…reflects their totalitarian impulses I suppose.

The Christ"never drove a car either"arguement is specious and absurd.A vegan appealing to the "meat is hedonistic(therefore a sin)"arguement is trying shut down discussion and opposition to that PERSONAL choice that they wish to IMPOSE on all.Typical liberal/leftist arguementation. :rolleyes:
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People of conscience can hold different views. It’s strange how *some *omnivores (specifically you), are attracted to these discussions, yet make no attempt to clarify their (your) position by presenting a well thought argument. You can exercise your PERSONAL choice by avoiding discussions that you are not capable of contributing to–it’s pretty easy to do. The word “hedonistic” appears in the OP, and we are asked to analyse if this is the case or not. How does having a discussion on the topic IMPOSE anything on anyone else???
 
The answer is very simply YES. As are all passionate activities not perfectly consecrated to God.

I myself fasted from meat for 8 years, but then started eating it again. First with chicken and fish, but later red meat as well.

We look to the Church fathers and it can be seen clearly that abstinence from meat was a recommended practice among bishops and priests. Later just bishops. Disputes arose in and around the 4th or 5th century regarding abstinence from meat by the religious.

If you really would like to PROVE to yourself that we Catholics should seriously consider abstinence from meat frequently if not completely, it is an easy task.

First we should study the history of why food is offered to God first before consuming it. The act of preparation of food with the intention of consecrating it to God pre dates the Last Support Rite/Ritual.

Jews and Gentiles alike offered food on the altar to God, brought crops and harvests etc, to God and so on.

Now if Food is to be offered to God, prior to its consumption, then its preparation must too be offered.

Do you think you could slaughter an animal (particularly a mammal) whilst praying to Our Lord and making it an offering?

Likely ONLY if you were a tribal person who needed the animal for survival. However, in the supermarket, era of plenty, the answer is no.

Finally, the act of eating meat or abstaining is very closely related to Our Lord’s passion. It is a known fact that the Essenes were quite austere and likely abstained from meat. BUT the Passover required lamb slaughter and eating of meat.

The Lord ended the bloody ritual/rite of slaughtering the spotless lamb, and surrendered His own body and blood to establish the New Covenant in the Rite of Melchizadek.

We should strongly consider abstinence from meat in line with the tradition of our Church. Lent, Fridays, and Wednesdays.

*15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.* – Romans 14:15-21
 
codebilly said:
The answer is very simply YES. As are all passionate activities not perfectly consecrated to God.

I myself fasted from meat for 8 years, but then started eating it again. First with chicken and fish, but later red meat as well.
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First thanks for the very thoughtful response - I am curious to know if you still eat meat and if you do, how do you reconcile this with the rest of the information in this post? — I don’t ask this in a challenging tone - would just like to know ----
codebilly said:
We look to the Church fathers and it can be seen clearly that abstinence from meat was a recommended practice among bishops and priests. Later just bishops. Disputes arose in and around the 4th or 5th century regarding abstinence from meat by the religious.

If you really would like to PROVE to yourself that we Catholics should seriously consider abstinence from meat frequently if not completely, it is an easy task.

First we should study the history of why food is offered to God first before consuming it. The act of preparation of food with the intention of consecrating it to God pre dates the Last Support Rite/Ritual.

Jews and Gentiles alike offered food on the altar to God, brought crops and harvests etc, to God and so on.

Now if Food is to be offered to God, prior to its consumption, then its preparation must too be offered.

Do you think you could slaughter an animal (particularly a mammal) whilst praying to Our Lord and making it an offering?

Likely ONLY if you were a tribal person who needed the animal for survival. However, in the supermarket, era of plenty, the answer is no.

Finally, the act of eating meat or abstaining is very closely related to Our Lord’s passion. It is a known fact that the Essenes were quite austere and likely abstained from meat. BUT the Passover required lamb slaughter and eating of meat.

The Lord ended the bloody ritual/rite of slaughtering the spotless lamb, and surrendered His own body and blood to establish the New Covenant in the Rite of Melchizadek.

We should strongly consider abstinence from meat in line with the tradition of our Church. Lent, Fridays, and Wednesdays.

*15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.* – Romans 14:15-21
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For me - as I learned about the production of meat in the USA today that is available to the vast majority of consumers (not only in markets but restaurants and fast food) - I can not square it with my faith.

In discussions on these forums I have found many who react very strongly to this stance - I assume they feel challenged by my position in their ‘way of life’ - they produce their own animals for food, or hunt - and this is a tradition for them and their families…

While I concede that people who hunt to feed their family - or those who on the recommendation of a physician eat meat - are not included in this issue - the dilemma of (1) animal welfare - how animals are treated in CAFO settings (2) the pollution created by CAFOs and (3) the resources necessary to produce 1 lb of animal protein vs 1 lb of vegetable protein. — these are among the issues that I find squarely in contrast to my understanding of our roll in God’s creation, and our individual responsibility to ensure that we are not using more than our share of this gift.

I believe it is a challenging topic - it is counter cultural. There are MANY things we do and don’t do - as people of faith - that are counter cultural - so I think we should be leading others to recognize that a diet free of meat is a choice that is in keeping with our Catholic faith.
 
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