Is fiscal conservatism not Christian?

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stinkcat_14 said:
The problem I have is that I have never met a true conservative. This issue is great example. We like to complain about our tax code, except when we get goodies out of it. For example, a while back I said we should eliminate the mortgage interest deduction. I was amazed at the number of conservatives who thought that would be terrible for the economy. In other words, what they are saying is that we can’t trust the free market, but we need the government to control the economy. Now tell me, is that a conservative idea or a liberal idea?
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That’s because you mistake the meaning of “conservative.”

Allowing people to keep their money is not “getting goodies” – unless you subscribe to the theory the people are slaves of the government and the fruits of their labor belong to the government before they belong to those who earn them.
 
vern_humphrey said:
That’s because you mistake the meaning of “conservative.”

Allowing people to keep their money is not “getting goodies” – unless you subscribe to the theory the people are slaves of the government and the fruits of their labor belong to the government before they belong to those who earn them.
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It is not allowing people to keep their money that I object to. If we eliminated the mortgage interest deduction, tax rates could be cut across the board, which would be much better for the economy.

There is no economic justification for the mortgage interest deduction that a true conservative could make. The housing market doesn’t need tax policy to funnel money into the housing sector. Let people make their own decisions where they want to invest and lower tax rates across the board is a much better idea.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
It is not allowing people to keep their money that I object to. If we eliminated the mortgage interest deduction, tax rates could be cut across the board, which would be much better for the economy.
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Not taxing people – for whatever reason – is allowing them to keep their money.
stinkcat_14 said:
There is no economic justification for the mortgage interest deduction that a true conservative could make.
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Allowing people to keep their own money is all the justification anyone needs.
stinkcat_14 said:
The housing market doesn’t need tax policy to funnel money into the housing sector. Let people make their own decisions where they want to invest and lower tax rates across the board is a much better idea.
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Would you also eliminate the standard deduction for dependents? For medical expenses? For charitable contributions?
 
think one of the reason we should let government take care of thes things is because governement is, by its very nature, a non-profit organization.
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While the “non-profit” status of Government is debatable, it is important to note that “not-for-profit organization” is not synonymous with “charitable organization.”

Any organization with a military to enforce its will and has the power to seize your home if you refuse to give them your contribution is not, by any standard, “charitable.”

Futhermore, people forget that Christ’s reason for helping the poor was not to equal the distribution of wealth. When the rich man approaches Jesus, He does not say “appeal to the Government to tax your income a little more, but keep some for yourself so that both are equal sharers in the worlds’ possessions.” Rather, Jesus tells the rich man to give EVERYTHING to the poor. In effect, he was telling the rich man to become poor himself.

The end is not possession, it is love, and no amount of Government enforced charity can satisfy this purpose. A Government mandate to redestribute the nation’s wealth completely misses the point of Christ’s command and, thus, is very unChristian.
 
vern_humphrey said:
Not taxing people – for whatever reason – is allowing them to keep their money.

Allowing people to keep their own money is all the justification anyone needs.
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But why is having a mortgage interest deduction better than a tax cut across the board?
Would you also eliminate the standard deduction for dependents? For medical expenses? For charitable contributions?
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Absolutely!
 
stinkcat_14 said:
But why is having a mortgage interest deduction better than a tax cut across the board?
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Because that’s not a choice we’re offered.

Further, tax cuts are ephemeral. But mortgages are long-term. The tax cut Congress passes this year, they can take away next year.
 
vern_humphrey said:
Because that’s not a choice we’re offered.

Further, tax cuts are ephemeral. But mortgages are long-term. The tax cut Congress passes this year, they can take away next year.
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But a true conservative would never take a mortgage interest deduction over an across the board tax cut.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
But a true conservative would never take a mortgage interest deduction over an across the board tax cut.
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A few points:
  1. I don’t believe conservatives voted to give you the power to define what they believe.
  2. No one ever offered us the choice between the mortgage deduction and an across-the-board tax cut.
  3. Tax cuts are ephemeral. But mortgages are long-term. The tax cut Congress passes this year, they can take away next year.
 
vern_humphrey said:
A few points:
  1. I don’t believe conservatives voted to give you the power to define what they believe.
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Actually, I am just responding to what someone put forth as the definition of a conservative.
A massive and complex tax code has become a powerful weapon politicians can use to pressure citizens to behave as the politicians, or the interest groups that support the politicians, wish. The correct function of taxation is to equitably collect only that revenue needed to fund the legitimate activities of a constitutionally limited government.
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I fail how a conservative could be in favor of the government using tax policy to favor one type of investment over another.
 
vern_humphrey said:
In that case, why was your post in the form of a challenge?

We agree – you fail.😉
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Ok, in what situations is it appropriate to use the tax code to affect economic behavior? Please explain why the market is not effective enough by itself?
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Ok, in what situations is it appropriate to use the tax code to affect economic behavior? Please explain why the market is not effective enough by itself?
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What has this got to do with “economic behavior?” I favor allowing people to keep the money they earn.
 
Caesar517 said:
I’m in favor of removing the government from all economics and letting the free market run by itself – managed by the invisible hand.
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And so am I. Unfortunately, that doesn’t happen in this universe – too many people want the government to spoon feed them, with other people’s money.

So in the real world, a tax break on home mortgages is about the best we can expect.

Note that business loans automatically get breaks on interest.
 
Caesar517 said:
I’m in favor of removing the government from all economics and letting the free market run by itself – managed by the invisible hand.
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And of course, the mortgage interest deduction distorts the invisible hand.
 
vern_humphrey said:
And so am I. Unfortunately, that doesn’t happen in this universe – too many people want the government to spoon feed them, with other people’s money.
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Yes, it’s this growing sense of entitlement spread by the liberals/socialists. People think they have a right to this or that. Does anybody even read the constitution anymore? It was written to prevent this from happening.
 
Caesar517 said:
Yes, it’s this growing sense of entitlement spread by the liberals/socialists. People think they have a right to this or that. Does anybody even read the constitution anymore? It was written to prevent this from happening.
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There are at least four members of the Supreme Court who feel the Constitution is a dead letter.😦
 
stinkcat_14 said:
The problem I have is that I have never met a true conservative.

You have NOW. 👍

This issue is great example. We like to complain about our tax code, except when we get goodies out of it. For example, a while back I said we should eliminate the mortgage interest deduction. I was amazed at the number of conservatives who thought that would be terrible for the economy. In other words, what they are saying is that we can’t trust the free market, but we need the government to control the economy. Now tell me, is that a conservative idea or a liberal idea?
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Moderate-to-liberal. That is about the only thing we can deduct on our income taxes now! And I use what I get back from Uncle Sam to pay…my spring taxes!!
 
:rolleyes:
Caesar517 said:
I’m in favor of removing the government from all economics and letting the free market run by itself – managed by the invisible hand.
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So increase the deregulations of savings and loan industry, as Reagan did, and the mortgage and financial institutions that second Pres Bush did? Did you notice the results? Massive bankruptcies, that gravely damaged our Economy. Would you also stop the Tax Payer sudsidizing the massive loses, the fedral govrnment bailouts of biggest financial institutions, as both fiscally liberal Presidents did? Please furnish one Nation wherin the free market successfully managed itself. One example will do. Vivat Jesus, not self. :D
 
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