Is fiscal conservatism not Christian?

[stinkcat_14]

                                                                                           So increase the deregulations of savings and loan industry, as Reagan did, and the mortgage   and financial institutions that second Pres Bush did?  Did you notice the results?  Massive bankruptcies, that  gravely damaged our Economy.  Would you also stop the   Tax Payer sudsidizing the massive loses, as both fiscally liberal Presidents did?                                                    Please furnish one Nation wherin  the free market successfully managed itself. One example will do.                                         Vivat Jesus, not self.    :D

Part of the problem, is that very few people want a truly free economy. Vern claims to be a conservative, but thinks that the housing market cannot function on its own with a mortgage tax deduction.

The problem with the S and L’s in the 80’s was one of too much disjointed regulation. When you tell S and L’s to loan to whom ever you want, combined with telling depositors that you will refund them their money if the S and L goes bankrupt, it can give CEO’s of poorly managed S and L’s an incentive to take on too much risk. Which is exactly what happened.

 

[Sailka]

Part of the problem, is that very few people want a truly free economy. Vern claims to be a conservative, but thinks that the housing market cannot function on its own with a mortgage tax deduction.

The problem with the S and L’s in the 80’s was one of too much disjointed regulation. When you tell S and L’s to loan to whom ever you want, combined with telling depositors that you will refund them their money if the S and L goes bankrupt, it can give CEO’s of poorly managed S and L’s an incentive to take on too much risk. Which is exactly what happened.

But as I recall, it was the deregulations proposed by Sen Armey and implemented in both adminstrations that was cited as the problem/cause of the massive bankruptcies which shattered the national and rescently the world economies. How many know that the insurance company for failed and begining big business is the federal government, aka the tax payer? Anyone raising their hand? seeing none, I herein reveal a key US Economy secret. Big US Business are subsidized and guaranteed returns and insured by us Taxpayers. Don’t tell anyone

 

[vern_humphrey]

                                                                                           So increase the deregulations of savings and loan industry, as Reagan did, and the mortgage   and financial institutions that second Pres Bush did?  Did you notice the results?

The results of the Savings and Loan debacle were due to people breaking laws – and to politicians putting pressure on inspectors to turn a blind eye – as in the Keating 5.

It appears the current sub-prime debacle has two roots, the first being pressure to lend to people who would not otherwise qualify for a loan, and the second being sub-prime loans extended to powerful politicians.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Part of the problem, is that very few people want a truly free economy. Vern claims to be a conservative, but thinks that the housing market cannot function on its own with a mortgage tax deduction.

You’re arguning with your own imagination.

I haven’t posted one word in this thread about the housing market and its functioning – if I have, please quote me.

I have said that allowing people to keep some of their own money is a good thing.

 

[Sailka]

You’re arguning with your own imagination.

I haven’t posted one word in this thread about the housing market and its functioning – if I have, please quote me.

I have said that allowing people to keep some of their own money is a good thing.

But who pays the federal bills? Who pays the contract warriors in Iraq,business contractors, being more numerous than regular armed forces, and paid numbers of times as much each? And who pays the massive interest payments to China, Saudia, Japan our record deficits monthly mortgage? Who pays the bills? Know economics? Equity? Responsibility? Vivat Jesu, not self.

 

[vern_humphrey]

But who pays the federal bills? Who pays the contract warriors in Iraq,business contractors, being more numerous than regular armed forces, and paid numbers of times as much each? And who pays the massive interest payments to China, Saudia, Japan our record deficits monthly mortgage? Who pays the bills? Know economics? Equity? Responsibility? Vivat Jesu, not self.

The taxpayer pays all bills, except those foisted off onto later generations, of course.

But none of this militates for the argument that if some taxation is good, more taxation is better.

 

[Sailka]

The taxpayer pays all bills, except those foisted off onto later generations, of course.

But none of this militates for the argument that if some taxation is good, more taxation is better.

Perhaps its a better idea to pay bills, avoid debt, and pay by means/ability financially, rather than slash taxes on wealthiest, and federally subsidize wealthiest corporations. Our Lord and Church teach equity, and noblesse oblige. Noblesse Oblige rather says it all. :thumbsup: And who is foisting impossible debts on future generations? :o Can anyone explain Their idea of fiscally conservativelly going opposite of noblesse oblige? Or of Not paying debts? How is that fiscally conservative? :confused:

 

[soma]

Republican leadership has made a point of appealing to America’s Christians by portraying itself as having a Christian core. But its actions oppose the human compassion that is tantamount to Christianity. Compassion and forgiveness are abandoned in favor of the death penalty. Charity, generosity and goodwill are forgotten in order to try to reduce taxes.

Conservative Christians build up the Kingdom of God based on the misery and anguish of the poor? Many Christians today seem to find nothing wrong with this - they believe that it’s OK to bash people’s heads in for the sake of corporate profits so long as the one doing the bashing is not a homosexual, is against abortion, and is for “family values.” What a disgrace and shame to the NAME of Christ!

 

[vern_humphrey]

Perhaps its a better idea to pay bills, avoid debt, and pay by means/ability financially, rather than slash taxes on wealthiest, and federally subsidize wealthiest corporations. Our Lord and Church teach equity, and noblesse oblige. Noblesse Oblige rather says it all. And who is foisting impossible debts on future generations? Can anyone explain Their idea of fiscally conservativelly going opposite of noblesse oblige? Or of Not paying debts? How is that fiscally conservative?

The people who are doing all this are Democrats – hardly conservatives.

 

[Sailka]

The people who are doing all this are Democrats – hardly conservatives.

Only the President propses budgets, and can spend appropriated funds. Only president can not spend funds, appropriated correctly. Which system of economics turned record surpluses and business profits into all time record, currently bankrupt USA? Could it not be a radically liberal spending, on no return possible, And tax slashing on wealthiest which has bankrupted USA to our new mortgage holder, communist China? Everything is the policies of the current president, not congress. And now Another set of taxpayers, in red China, is covering our national policy record losses. Where is the fiscal conservatism? Maybe in Red China booming economy, subsidized by us taxpayers. Where is the fiscally conservative Noblesse Oblige of of Our Lord, our Church practised in the USA? Only in the Catholic Church therein. :thumbsup:

 

[vern_humphrey]

                                                                                           Only the President propses budgets, and can spend  appropriated funds.

Actually, many times Congress refuses the President’s proposed budget and substitutes their own.

And no budget escapes the amendments and targeted pork that Congress adds.

Further, both Congress and the Court can spend money – for Congress appropriates money for those institutions. You may recall some years back, Congress had its own “bank” and members routinely overdrew their accounts – and the money was replaced by appropriations.

In future posts, try not producing so many run-on sentences, and try to make paragraphs for each separate idea. That will make your posts more intelligible.

 

[Sailka]

Actually, many times Congress refuses the President’s proposed budget and substitutes their own.

And no budget escapes the amendments and targeted pork that Congress adds.

Further, both Congress and the Court can spend money – for Congress appropriates money for those institutions. You may recall some years back, Congress had its own “bank” and members routinely overdrew their accounts – and the money was replaced by appropriations.

In future posts, try not producing so many run-on sentences, and try to make paragraphs for each separate idea. That will make your posts more intelligible.

                                                   :cool:    [RIGHT]

1. 
   
   [/RIGHT]Yes indeed, this congress Reversed the president’s reduced VA budget, couple years ago, and increased it in view of the large number of combat wounded.
   • 
     
     And this Congress enacted big reduction on interest on student loans.
     • 
       
       And Republican combat veteran Senator threatened impeachment if president also attacks Iran.
       • And where is this presidents fiscal conservatism in slashing tax rates mainly to richest 5%?

 

[Ignatius]

Wouldn’t supporting government policies that help the sick and the poor the most – such as universal health care, accident insurance and minimum wage – be the most Christly thing to do? The argument against that is that it means we have less economic freedom, though our primary concern is to help the poor, which charity simply cannot account for by itself.

No, the argument against it is that the proposals put forth so far have been so blatantly unworkable that they would generate more suffering and destroy the existing health care infrastructure.
Well intentioned fantasies will only make things worse.

 

[bilop]

Quote:
Originally Posted by peary
What do conservatives believe? Here are the 10 principles of Conservatism worth pondering. How are these against our Catholic Faith? Any takers?

1. God’s Law Governs Nations as Well as Men.The Ten Commandments should not only be enshrined in our courthouses, they should be engraved in our hearts and minds as guides to all behavior, public and private. As the Founders acknowledged in the Declaration of Independence, laws and policies that violate the natural law are abuses of government power that must be resisted and reversed.

1. Life Is the First God-Given RightIt’s always wrong to deliberately take an innocent human life. When this principle is abridged, violence escalates. Thus we have aborted 47 million unborn babies in the past three decades, begun to accept euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide, and stand at the threshold of cloning human beings for the specific purpose of killing them.

1. Marriage and Family Come Before the State and Deserve Its ProtectionThe marriage of one man and one woman is the natural foundation of all human society, and the means by which children ought to be brought into the world and taught the basic values of our civilization. Government has a duty to recognize and protect the family and must not grant alternative relationships the same status and privileges.

1. Freedom of Conscience is the Soul of Liberty
   Understanding that freedom of conscience is at the heart of liberty, the Framers protected freedom of religion and assembly in the 1st Amendment. Movements to force the Boy Scouts to accept homosexual scout masters, or to compel religious individuals or organizations to distribute birth control or abortion drugs against their beliefs, directly attack these freedoms.

1. Private Property is the Servant of FreedomThe more that individuals, families and businesses can acquire and control the goods necessary to sustain and advance themselves, the more autonomy they will have from the state and others who may wish to unjustly restrict their freedom. The free and responsible use of private property tends to create greater wealth and greater freedom for greater numbers of people.

1. Government Dependency is the Seed of Tyranny
   The more that individuals, families and businesses are dependent on the state for the goods necessary to sustain and advance themselves, the less autonomy they will have from the state and others who may wish to unjustly restrict their freedom. This is why expanding the welfare state is bad, and Social Security personal retirement accounts, Health Savings Accounts and school choice are good.

1. The Constitution Means What It Says
   Believing in the God-given rights of man and understanding the imperfect nature of human beings, the Framers crafted a Constitution designed to protect the former from the latter. Many of the problems in U.S. government would be resolved if the President, Congress and Courts limited themselves and each other to the authority the Constitution actually grants them.

1. Taxes Are Justified Only to Fund Necessary Government SpendingA massive and complex tax code has become a powerful weapon politicians can use to pressure citizens to behave as the politicians, or the interest groups that support the politicians, wish. The correct function of taxation is to equitably collect only that revenue needed to fund the legitimate activities of a constitutionally limited government.

1. National Defense Is Just ThatThe first duty of the federal government is to defend the American people against foreign enemies. While advancing freedom in the world is good in itself—and, where it prudently can be done, would advance the interests of the United States–ultimately, the mandate for our national leaders is to use whatever moral means they can to carve out that path in our relations with foreign powers that is most likely to lead to enhanced security, prosperity and freedom for this nation.

1. We Should Strive to Give Our Children a Better Country
   America is more than just an expanse of territory or a set of laws. It is a culture, whose art, architecture, journalism, music, movies, television, schools and universities, should reflect and reinforce the traditional values that made this country great. We owe this to our children, who will build the America of tomorrow on the foundation of the America we teach them to love today.

Brilliant!

God Bless

 

[summasix]

Republican leadership has made a point of appealing to America’s Christians by portraying itself as having a Christian core. But its actions oppose the human compassion that is tantamount to Christianity. Compassion and forgiveness are abandoned in favor of the death penalty. Charity, generosity and goodwill are forgotten in order to try to reduce taxes.

Conservative Christians build up the Kingdom of God based on the misery and anguish of the poor? Many Christians today seem to find nothing wrong with this - they believe that it’s OK to bash people’s heads in for the sake of corporate profits so long as the one doing the bashing is not a homosexual, is against abortion, and is for “family values.” What a disgrace and shame to the NAME of Christ!

There are three main forms of economic oppression.

War (destroys property)
Stealing (taking one’s property for oneself)
Taxing (taking one’s property for the government)

A policy that favors taxing those who work hard for their belongings, taxing charitable institutions (esp. religious ones), and requiring one to bow down to Satan in order to receive a days wages can hardly be called Christlike.

Remember the parable of the master and the three servants. To those who invested their money to gain more, more trust was given. To the one who hid his money in earth, even his one talent was taken away.

 

[peary]

                                                                                           So increase the deregulations of savings and loan industry, as Reagan did, and the mortgage   and financial institutions that second Pres Bush did?  Did you notice the results?  Massive bankruptcies, that  gravely damaged our Economy.  Would you also stop the   Tax Payer sudsidizing the massive loses, the fedral govrnment bailouts of biggest financial institutions, as both fiscally liberal Presidents did?                                                    Please furnish one Nation wherin  the free market successfully managed itself. One example will do.                                         Vivat Jesus, not self.    :D

The Reaganomics worked just fine for us in the 1980s. To put the blame on Reagan almost thirty years ago is ridiculous. Why not try the Clinton administration and the massive tax raise in the 1990s. Where did that lead us? And where did companies put their investments (Enron ring a bell?). Go to the Heritage Foundation website and do some reading.

 

[Sailka]

No, the argument against it is that the proposals put forth so far have been so blatantly unworkable that they would generate more suffering and destroy the existing health care infrastructure.
Well intentioned fantasies will only make things worse.

                                                                                           [LIST=1]

Precise opposite, factually. The less than half percapita cost National health systens of all advanced countries, and candian provinces are far superior redults than disasrous USA health care ‘businesses’ of tens of thousands of for profit companies and
beaurocracies.

• 
  USA healthcare system universally recognized as a disaster, at twice per capita cost.
  • The fantasies are that European national healthcare systems, which also have for profit businesses, are not far superior to all the USA fantasized best system of All Businesses, tax payer subsidized.
    
    • Let us hope you are not famntasizing that USA is even solvent, and not record Monthly federal deficits, after reversng the ideal full employment, record federal and business surpluses of prior administration. Hope you heard USA is now Bankrupt, actually, factually
      
      Lord, Church taught Noblesse Oblige, not mortgaging future to Communist China. Vivat Jesus, not self
      Where is the 'fiscal conservatism' of the current administration? Is it Not worst case radical liberal reversal of USA economic leadership of the world?

 

[Sailka]

The Reaganomics worked just fine for us in the 1980s. To put the blame on Reagan almost thirty years ago is ridiculous. Why not try the Clinton administration and the massive tax raise in the 1990s. Where did that lead us? And where did companies put their investments (Enron ring a bell?). Go to the Heritage Foundation website and do some reading.

                                                                                             Reaganomics Began the Massive Deficits that have Now bankrupted the USA, recently. He did so by slashing taxes to richest, and doubling price we paid for every weapon system in  his early term.

Have you forgotten the first Deppression and biggest stock market crash since 1930’s in Oct 1987? Reaganomics at work, as was predicted.

                                                                                           The Clinton increase was  tiny 1%  FICA  withholding.  FICA is not a tax. result was ideal record business, bank  profits, full American employment, and record Federal surpluses, which were still major in 2001 fy.

 

[vern_humphrey]

1. 
   

1. Yes indeed, this congress Reversed the president’s reduced VA budget, couple years ago, and increased it in view of the large number of combat wounded.
   • 
     
     And this Congress enacted big reduction on interest on student loans.
     • 
       
       And Republican combat veteran Senator threatened impeachment if president also attacks Iran.
       • And where is this presidents fiscal conservatism in slashing tax rates mainly to richest 5%?

1. • • • 
         Is there an English translation of this post available?

 

[Sailka]

Is there an English translation of this post available?

                                                                                           Thought was very thoughful spareselly worded English   Do you prefer Hungarian or Bavarian?  or Suthern?   :D      
                                                                                     Don't you recall Bush Administration Cutting  VA  funding, in time of War?                                                                                   And privatizing Walter  Reed last year?                                      Or   Combat   wounded veterans being Denied, or greatly reduced Disability by armed forces/VA last year? To save MONEY?                                                                           Was National Scandal Last summer!                                                                                                                                                                                  :eek:   I forgot!  Fox News et al does not cover Reality  not in Their Agenda.                                                                                                                                                                                  Don't you remember  the  Republican   Senator from prairie  state,  a Viet War veteran,  warning Non-Vet  Bush/Chaney last  summer that they would face Impeachment   if   they Attacked Iran?     Honest news is essential to know what going on   :D       To avoid fantasy-land ;)