Is friends with benefits the moral alternative?

[april32010]

i dont want this thread to derail to this topic. i will say this last thing about the whole condoms debate.

the pope said condoms are permissible to protect against disease, NOT to prevent conception. cant you guys make that distinction?? also try to think logically, this could easily be applied to married couples. if a married couple uses condoms during the woman’s infertile periods, that would be an example of moral condom use. since the intent in this scenario is not to prevent conception but to prevent disease. its ludicrous to assume the pope only allowed it for homosexuals since its impossible for homosexual couples to even commit the sin of contraception! since only a man and woman can concieve. the pope cited homosexual prostitutes as an EXAMPLE, but in an interview he said that his comments applied to hetero sexual couples too.

no, he didn’t.

 

[davidv]

you are kidding me, right? cigarettes are worse than fornication. its your way of thinking which is completely abnormal. how is selling a product which kills many people daily not a mortal sin, but simple fornication is? thats absurd. its absurd that people smoke which is unnatural and harmful to both themselves and others, yet a natural act like sex is looked upon with disgust.

you have a disordered way of thinking if you justify drug use while at the same time condemn sex.

how can you judge people for having sex yet at the same time see no problem with using drugs??

What’s is also absurd is that you do not realize that mortal sin causes spiritual death.

Sex is only a natural act in the confines of a valid marriage. All others are unnatural and disordered toward the true nature of man

 

[Burdensome1]

Why do some people click the “catholic” option for religion on their profile, if they pretty fundamentally disagree with it? Have some backbone.

 

[april32010]

i dont understand why people are having such knee jerk reactions to that quote. if you examine that quote youll find that it is not trying to attack the church, in fact that quote actually paints the church in a more positive light. it makes the church seem wise and discerning. wether or not that book was “sensational” or “scholarly” makes no difference since the intended effect of that quote was not to harm the image of the church. i do not know how you can possibly see that quote as an “attack”. seriously drop the persecution complex

furthermore i find that quote to be 100% believable. we KNOW there was prostitution during the middle ages. that is a FACT. even thomas aquinas’ family locked him in a room with a prostitute at one time. so that is not even up for debate. this quote provides a logical explanation for why the church decided to tolerate it. note that in the quote it stresses the church’s RELUCTANCE to do so. but the church still allowed it for logical reasons. coupled with that quote from st augustine, its quite evident that the source is credible.
you should be more objective in a debate.

in a failed attempt to break his desire to enter the religious life,what has that have to do with anything?

 

[Burdensome1]

It’s salacious, and confusing to the ignorant, hence it is perfect internet debate material.

 

[april32010]

:compcoff:

It’s salacious, and confusing to the ignorant, hence it is perfect internet debate material.

:doh2:

 

[april32010]

[sign]thanks [/sign]

 

[Burdensome1]

That’s a lot of smileys.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

i dont want this thread to derail to this topic. i will say this last thing about the whole condoms debate.

the pope said condoms are permissible to protect against disease, NOT to prevent conception. cant you guys make that distinction?? also try to think logically, this could easily be applied to married couples. if a married couple uses condoms during the woman’s infertile periods, that would be an example of moral condom use. since the intent in this scenario is not to prevent conception but to prevent disease. its ludicrous to assume the pope only allowed it for homosexuals since its impossible for homosexual couples to even commit the sin of contraception! since only a man and woman can concieve. the pope cited homosexual prostitutes as an EXAMPLE, but in an interview he said that his comments applied to hetero sexual couples too.

Did you even read what I, or the Pope said? Sure doesn’t seem like it.

I read the interview. You are, objectively, wrong.

 

[Timothy_Garber]

you are kidding me, right? cigarettes are worse than fornication. its your way of thinking which is completely abnormal. how is selling a product which kills many people daily not a mortal sin, but simple fornication is? thats absurd. its absurd that people smoke which is unnatural and harmful to both themselves and others, yet a natural act like sex is looked upon with disgust.

you have a disordered way of thinking if you justify drug use while at the same time condemn sex.

how can you judge people for having sex yet at the same time see no problem with using drugs??

I cannot speak for the people who sell cigarettes. If their intentions are harmful, they will harm themselves.

Catholics do not justify or support drug use. Rather, we support the resistance against addictions.

We don’t “judge” people for making mistakes like fornication. We try to stop them from condemning themselves and, if they have already committed the sin, we try to help them by showing them what they did wrong and encouraging absolution. We don’t hold it over their heads, and I am sorry if a Catholic ever does/did that to you. That is your chance to show them what they are doing wrong, but only after you took the branch out of your own eye.

 

[3DOCTORS]

You are making it sound like their are only two options: having nonmarital sex or masturbation. You need to realize that there are other options.

What my answer boils down to: Find a way to do no sin on purpose.

It’s easy to get into a pattern of sin, and for some it may go as far as a true addiction. Reform or recovery may include an occasional slip-up (but don’t go looking for them or having a lax attitude about it). Nor beat yourself up to the point of feeling so much shame you are reluctant to go to Confession. Learn from your mistakes and move on. It will get easier.

This goes for lots of kinds of sins, not just sexual ones. Anger, for example - making a commitment not to fly into a rage over stupid stuff, confessing when you “lost it” and getting those graces to do better next time.

Sexual sins are different from other sins in some ways but not in others. Passions, whether lust, anger, gluttony, etc. can exert a powerful force. Engaging in behaviors that hit the pleasure receptors in the brain naturally reinforce the tendency toward the behavior. But for most people, this cycle can be reversed. You have to believe it’s worth sacrificing for a greater good that doesn’t always bring that immediate gratification.

Also you have to have a strong sense of who you are in the eyes of God - His precious son or daughter - so that peer pressure doesn’t have sway over you. The suggestion by another poster to get an accountability mentor person is excellent.

And of course don’t forget to pray. A lot!

 

[mark_a]

in the midle ages the catholic church tolerated prostitution because they thought it was a good alternative to stop people from committing greater sins such as masterbation, adultery, and sodomy.

so it is worth considering, would it be the morally responsible thing to do to have a certain someone you could have sex with until marriage? just to keep from committing more grevious sins?
p.s. i realise the real morally responsible thing to do would be to not have sex at al untill marriage, but many of us find this very difficult to do. so basically wouldnt it be better to have sex with a person (using NFP ofcourse), to stave off masterbation and pornography?

Some time in the not-so-distant future, your are really going to be glad you joined these forums.

 

[Regina_Love]

Yeesh, not the whole thing with the Pope and the condoms again.

What Pope Benedict XVI said was that if you’re a prostitute that has no concern with whether or not others get a sexual disease you’re worse than a prostitute that realizes that he can spread sexual diseases and has put some forethought into preventing the spread of the disease by wearing a condom.

That’s it. It has nothing to do with the morality or otherwise of wearing a condom, it is about pointing out that this may be a sign that the prostitute is finally starting to realize that his actions have consequences that affect people besides himself. And that’s a step in the right direction.

yes, it is good that the male prostitue have a conscious at all. It is sad that he wishes to prevent std’s which will harm anothers health, but many have treatments and cures, Yet ignores the fact that the act itself kills all grace in their souls, and destines them to Hell forever. Which is much worse than even HIV. Such saddness!

 

[Regina_Love]

of all the arguments against fornication, that one is the worst. because then it could be argued if a billionare fornicates then he would not be sinning against justice since he could easily care for his offspring.

but im not even defending fornication! i dont know where you got that idea from. what i am saying though is that fornication is much healthier than masturbation and not as immoral. all im saying is that its more normal for young people to go out looking for a mate than to sit at home in the dark abusing themselves while making pornographers rich.
yes fornication is a mortal sin, but its ultimately more normal and can even lead to beautiful loving marriage.

Treating ones partner as a prostitute is just mutual masterbation, and following after lust. Which makes them a slave of lust. Which is why there is an 80% divorce rate among shack up couples who marry. It is a poor foundation for lasting love. Debating which sin is least harmful, takes away time from learning virtuous living which leads to success!

 

[Regina_Love]

you are kidding me, right? cigarettes are worse than fornication. its your way of thinking which is completely abnormal. how is selling a product which kills many people daily not a mortal sin, but simple fornication is? thats absurd. its absurd that people smoke which is unnatural and harmful to both themselves and others, yet a natural act like sex is looked upon with disgust.

you have a disordered way of thinking if you justify drug use while at the same time condemn sex.

how can you judge people for having sex yet at the same time see no problem with using drugs??

Fornication can lead to immediate soul death. Cigarette us,e while immoral, does not always lead to death. I do believe selling cigarettes is a mortal sin! Good point. However using someone to fulfill your lustful pleasures is not “natural” God made our Nature to be exclusive. Did you know a womens body can identify the DNA of her 1st sexual partner? Her body assumes this to be her husband & life long partner, and sends a message to her immune system to accept this DNA Her immune system will not send out antibodies to destroy it.

 

[Burdensome1]

Cigarette us,e while immoral, does not always lead to death. I do believe selling cigarettes is a mortal sin!

Gack, another one. It’s not up to you, thank God. Modernists.

 

[Timothy_Garber]

Gack, another one. It’s not up to you, thank God. Modernists.

Wait a second. They said “I do believe”, not “this is the truth”. A person can express his/her opinions on this forum justly, as long as they state that it is an opinion.

 

[hieroglyph]

yes, it is good that the male prostitue have a conscious at all. It is sad that he wishes to prevent std’s which will harm anothers health, but many have treatments and cures, Yet ignores the fact that the act itself kills all grace in their souls, and destines them to Hell forever. Which is much worse than even HIV. Such saddness!

The Church condemns no one to Hell, and no single act kills all grace. We pray for all souls in purgatory, since we don’t know who may respond to God’ grace. No one is outside of the reach of God’s grace and forgiveness;, all can respond and accept it. Sin separates us from God, but it is not for us to know the states of people’s souls, whether they are an inch or a million miles from Heaven. Pray and remember that “by your own measure” you will be judged.

 

[Burdensome1]

Wait a second. They said “I do believe”, not “this is the truth”. A person can express his/her opinions on this forum justly, as long as they state that it is an opinion.

I can say “In my opinion, when Hitler defeated Napoleon in the Russian revolution it was a good thing” and someone still better tell me I’m an idiot for it. When one opines about what is and what is not a mortal sin in contradiction to the judgement of the Church, the “I believe” part is merely a formality.

Every heretic in the history of forever said “I believe…”.

 

[jpink1019]

youre attacking the source again! in this case wikipedia is a legit source. are you unable to look further into the sources listed on the wikipedia page? and the quote from the wikipedia article even includes the book it is derived from! how could you miss that? this proves to me that you never even bothered to read the entrire quote. your prejudiced reasoning (or lack thereof) caused you to simply glance at the article and when you saw the title “wikipedia”, you just probably thought “oh theyre automatically wrong no matter what they might say”.

lol i think if i were to post a quote from a wiki article on spain being located in europe you would still deny it simply because the information is from wikipedia.

regarding the wiki article on prostiution. that quote from the wiki article was a quote from a book: “the medieval underworld” by andrew mccal. wikipedia cited this source in that very quote.

here read it again:
“During the Middle Ages, prostitution was commonly found in urban contexts. Although all forms of sexual activity outside of marriage were regarded as sinful by the Roman Catholic Church, prostitution was tolerated because it was held to prevent the greater evils of rape, sodomy, and masturbation (McCall, 1979). Augustine of Hippo held that: “If you expel prostitution from society, you will unsettle everything on account of lusts”. The general tolerance of prostitution was for the most part reluctant, and many canonists urged prostitutes to reform.”

notice “McCall, 1979”? notice the quote from augustine of Hippo? it is a LEGIT source. are you going to say st agustine is an illegitimate source now?

do you even know what a straw man is by the way?
about the pope on condoms:
telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/8148944/The-Pope-drops-Catholic-ban-on-condoms-in-historic-shift.html

now wait, before you dismiss it because of the source. READ it. you will find the pope said in an interview and in his book that it is permissible for people to use condoms to protect against STDs.

but i didnt need the pope to tell me that, i knew long before since i have something called common sense.

As a college student required to write and research on all sorts of topics, we had to cite academically appropriate sources. The grade for using wikipedia? = F