Is God a kind, loving God or a mean, vengeful God?

[Tom_Baum]

This is a pleasant analogy, but it seems to contradict with common sense.

Would God seriously waste his time trying to save a person who is undeniably dammed for eternity?

Could be that God is the One Who decides just what He will “spend His time” on, don’t you think?

Could also be that God doesn’t see it as a “waste of time”!

And as far as “it seems to contradict with common sense”, wasn’t it God Who reportedly said, “My Ways are not your ways and My Thoughts are not your thoughts”?

Could be that some of what we see as “common sense” is seen by God as utter foolishness.

Agreed. While on Earth, we taste appetizers, or the first-fruits, of both Heaven and Hell. When one glories in the fruits of peace, he will reap peace and reveal his desire for eternal peace. When one glories in the fruits of strife, he will reap the fruits of strife and reveal his desire for eternal strife.

If you wish to experience the happiness of Heaven, remember how happy you were when you went on your first date, the peace you felt when your debts were paid, and the pride bursting within you when your children succeed.

If you wish to experience the horror of Hell, then experience negative feelings: murderous thoughts, “I want to tear out his heart!” envy, why can’t I be like him…and lust. She’s incredibly beautiful. More money, more…You already know what Hell is like. Do you wish to fall into it?

Hence why no one is excused when they’re judged. We *already *know what Heaven and Hell is like!!

As far as “We *already *know what Heaven and Hell is like!!”, you may speak for yourself if you like but I do not think that you can speak for the other billions of people.

People can think of nice things and people can think of unnice things but as far as “things of heaven and hell”, I would say that NO ONE can imagine or conceive of either on their own, only God can give anyone an insight into either.

 

[Faxero]

@Tom Baum In earlier posts you claimed to have experienced spiritual death. Please elaborate.

 

[Tom_Baum]

@Tom Baum In earlier posts you claimed to have experienced spiritual death. Please elaborate.

Spiritual death is beyond despair.

I have said that I have experienced both hell and spiritual death.

I have also said that hell is NOT separation from God but is experiencing God’s love, which is NOT an attribute but is God’s Very Essence, as burning as opposed to caressing.

As in seeing one’s crud thru the “Eyes of Pure Love”.

Have you every heard of God described as a “Consuming Fire of Love”?

I suppose that one could say that with some, ALL will be consumed except the “Image and Likeness of God”, or something to that effect.

One could look at “spiritual death” as beyond hell, as beyond God, in that one is beyond despair.

Words are not adequate to describe.

I believe that Jesus, God-Incarnate, went to both hell, everyone’s, and spiritual death by His work on the cross and “won” the “keys” to both and alluded to this when He said to Peter, “… I will build MY CHURCH, and the ‘gates of the netherworld’ shall not prevail against IT”, the ‘netherworld’ (hell and spiritual death).

This “not prevailing” is the WHOLE MISSION of Jesus’s Church.

“My God, My God, why have Thou forsaken Me”, is not Jesus deciding to say a psalm but is the prophecy of that psalm coming true as Jesus said it.

 

[oldcelt]

God seems to be neither. The universe flowed along quite nicely before man tried to quantify the indescribable.

 

[PRmerger]

The universe flowed along quite nicely before man tried to quantify the indescribable.

Evidence for this, please?

 

[oldcelt]

Evidence for this, please?

Come on PRmerger…it is called scientific fact. The universe is far more ancient than humanity. I have personally dug into soils that precede any known human population. Civilized man dates to about 16,000 years BP…it may be older…but it certainly isn’t 13 or 14 billion years…provable through the red shift.

 

[Peter_Plato]

Come on PRmerger…it is called scientific fact. The universe is far more ancient than humanity. I have personally dug into soils that precede any known human population. Civilized man dates to about 16,000 years BP…it may be older…but it certainly isn’t 13 or 14 billion years…provable through the red shift.

Yes but the problem isn’t so much that man has tried to describe the indescribable, but, rather, that man has tried determinably to force the indescribable to comply with the eminently describable ways of man.

Perhaps that is the reason God has had to intervene by becoming man and communicating directly to man concerning the ways man should behave by demonstrating what happens when man doesn’t treat the indescribable with respect: man crucifies the indescribable in man’s determined attempt to prove to the indescribable that the indescribable must make itself compliant to the ways of man and not remain indescribable.

 

[PRmerger]

Come on PRmerger…it is called scientific fact. The universe is far more ancient than humanity.

Oh. I wasn’t clear.

I don’t need evidence that the universe is far more ancient than humanity.

I need evidence that God isn’t involved in this universe.

 

[oldcelt]

Oh. I wasn’t clear.

I don’t need evidence that the universe is far more ancient than humanity.

I need evidence that God isn’t involved in this universe.

I see no evidence that he is…my respect for the creator is greater than that. It seems to be a self-perpetuating system that may collapse upon itself…and start all over.

So, what’s your evidence of a god’s involvement?

 

[PRmerger]

I see no evidence that he is…my respect for the creator is greater than that.

Well, it sounds like you’re just creating a god in your own mind then.

There is no logic to your reasoning, except the fact that you don’t like that God allows suffering.

This is what your reasoning appears to be:

I don’t like that God would permit suffering.
Therefore, I conclude that God wouldn’t do this. And that means that God created the world and then let it run to its own devices.

There is no logic to this reasoning.

 

[PRmerger]

Well, it sounds like you’re just creating a god in your own mind then.

There is no logic to your reasoning, except the fact that you don’t like that God allows suffering.

This is what your reasoning appears to be:

I don’t like that God would permit suffering.
Therefore, I conclude that God wouldn’t do this. And that means that God created the world and then let it run to its own devices.

There is no logic to this reasoning.

A parallel would be this type of reasoning;

I don’t like that spicy food makes me burp.
Therefore, I conclude that spicy food doesn’t exist.

It’s a non-sequitur, right?

Even if I don’t like spicy food, that doesn’t mean that I can make any conclusion about it whatsoever.

 

[oldcelt]

Yes but the problem isn’t so much that man has tried to describe the indescribable, but, rather, that man has tried determinably to force the indescribable to comply with the eminently describable ways of man.

Perhaps that is the reason God has had to intervene by becoming man and communicating directly to man concerning the ways man should behave by demonstrating what happens when man doesn’t treat the indescribable with respect: man crucifies the indescribable in man’s determined attempt to prove to the indescribable that the indescribable must make itself compliant to the ways of man and not remain indescribable.

So, so you think you can tell,
Heaven from hell,
Blue skies from pain…etc…perhaps only poses another set of questions that, IMHO, cannot be answered at this time

 

[oldcelt]

Well, it sounds like you’re just creating a god in your own mind then.

There is no logic to your reasoning, except the fact that you don’t like that God allows suffering.

This is what your reasoning appears to be:

I don’t like that God would permit suffering.
Therefore, I conclude that God wouldn’t do this. And that means that God created the world and then let it run to its own devices.

There is no logic to this reasoning.

Really…I find it to be quite logical for a vastly superior force. I’ve created nothing…just reported observations. No need for reams upon reams of writings by those who never saw the supposed god they spent so much time trying to explain.
It’s right there in front of us.

 

[PRmerger]

Really…I find it to be quite logical for a vastly superior force. I’ve created nothing…just reported observations. No need for reams upon reams of writings by those who never saw the supposed god they spent so much time trying to explain.
It’s right there in front of us.

Oh, right. God’s existence is quite logical indeed.

I am asking you how you come to the conclusion that He created…and then He said, “Buh-bye!”

What evidence do you have for that, besides the fact that you don’t like that He permits suffering?

Not liking something is not a logical reason to deny.

 

[Peter_Plato]

So, so you think you can tell,
Heaven from hell,
Blue skies from pain…etc…perhaps only poses another set of questions that, IMHO, cannot be answered at this time

Why is it that you feel you can determine what can or cannot be answered and when, as if that determination is up to you?

Aren’t you dictating to the indescribable the terms of how you will relate to it? It doesn’t answer your queries in the manner you expect therefore, you conclude, it cannot give any answer at all.

 

[oldcelt]

Oh, right. God’s existence is quite logical indeed.

I am asking you how you come to the conclusion that He created…and then He said, “Buh-bye!”

What evidence do you have for that, besides the fact that you don’t like that He permits suffering?

Not liking something is not a logical reason to deny.

The conduct of man throughout history can have only three possible explanations, IMO.

1. That the interventionist god is incompetent or worse.
2. That we are merely the unintended result of a creator who has no interest in controlling anything.
3. There is no god what-so-ever.

There is no evidence of a big daddy in the sky observing our every move…none. That version of god sounds more like Santa Claus.

 

[oldcelt]

Why is it that you feel you can determine what can or cannot be answered and when, as if that determination is up to you?

Aren’t you dictating to the indescribable the terms of how you will relate to it? It doesn’t answer your queries in the manner you expect therefore, you conclude, it cannot give any answer at all.

Then show me your proof. Billions of people are waiting to hear from you.

 

[esieffe]

All religions talk about reaping what you sow or karma, it is not just Christianity. If your an atheist there is the law, and that you CAN’T ignore.

I hope you find peace.

 

[oldcelt]

All religions talk about reaping what you sow or karma, it is not just Christianity. If your an atheist there is the law, and that you CAN’T ignore.

I hope you find peace.

Precisely…What you describe is very possible without an interfering godhead. So far as peace…I’m about as close as I expect this life to allow.

 

[esieffe]

The conduct of man throughout history can have only three possible explanations, IMO.

1. That the interventionist god is incompetent or worse.
2. That we are merely the unintended result of a creator who has no interest in controlling anything.
3. There is no god what-so-ever.

There is no evidence of a big daddy in the sky observing our every move…none. That version of god sounds more like Santa Claus.

1. There is a God out there who has done everything he could to set us on the right path. Like any parent, there comes a time that he must let go, to wander in the desert or whatever. He gives help to those who ask for it and are capable of carrying out his will in the future. Much of what he knows is beyond our comprehension, but for those who dedicate there lives to finding out why we are here and how to make it a better place can find peace and understanding, even if that means sometimes we forfeit our physical form in the process.

The good news, at least for now, is that you are free to do or think whatever you wish. You may be a great person, who is kind, and does great works. You may find salvation even if you are not looking for it, who knows. Whatever the deal is, peace be with you.