Is God the same as Allah?

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Without Christ?
No, with Christ. I trust you know basic Christian theology. There was never a time when He was not. As I have written already, the OT prophets foretold the coming of Christ, while He was not yet incarnate to dwell among them as He was in the days of the apostles. And as He was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary and became man without change, mixture, division, or alteration of any kind, it is safe to say that it is the Jews who changed, though of course they see it differently.
 
Those wrathful and legalistic commands all start out with “And the LORD said to Moses _________”

I used to think it was a defect too, but that isnt the answer after all.
The Lord said to Moses to execute people?

Can you cite the passage?

And the Lord said to Moses, “It is my will that couples be permitted to divorce”?

Can you cite the passage?
 
No, with Christ. I trust you know basic Christian theology. There was never a time when He was not.
So Christ is eternal. We are agreed on that. And when the ancient Jews worshipped the God of Abraham, they were implicitly also worshipping the Triune God?

Is that your position?
 
The Lord said to Moses to execute people?

Can you cite the passage?

And the Lord said to Moses, “It is my will that couples be permitted to divorce”?

Can you cite the passage?
Here is just one example:

“And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, ‘Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.’”*(Numbers 25:3-4)
 
Here is just one example:

“And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, ‘Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.’”*(Numbers 25:3-4)
Best response to this is from Jimmy Akin:

jimmyakin.com/2007/02/hard_sayings_of.html
 
By your question, I’m not sure you’ve understood my posts, PRmerger. The point of all that stuff about how Christians divide history is needed to explain how it is that we can (and always have, and continue to, and always will) say Christ is foretold by the OT prophets, who were very much Jews. With the incarnation of Christ, however, everything changes (this is the entire ‘point’ of the Incarnation, in fact, if it can be viewed on a utilitarian basis for the sake of simplification). This is what makes Theosis possible, and what gathers together the lost sheep of not just Israel, but of the many mansions of God. What was to some degree shrouded and found in archetypes in the OT becomes explicit with the incarnation of our Lord. If you ever attend an Oriental Orthodox liturgy, this is manifest symbolically in the usage of the altar veil, which is thrown open to symbolize the revelation of God in Christ (among other things), which has torn history in two. Again, with the defining event that tears away the veil over the people’s eyes having passed us (and the Jews, and the Muslims, and everybody) some 2000 years ago, we cannot look at things before that time and after that time and say that they are the same or to be considered the same for those who claim to be the descendants of this or that group of spiritual forefathers. Again, it is the Jews who have changed; not God…The true followers of God in the OT worshiped Him in hopes of His coming, while those of the NT worshiped Him in celebration of His having come. We as Christians are perhaps more closely identified with those of the second era (since we too worship in a post-Incarnation world), but they are both ours. The entire Bible and all of its history and promises are ours, as the same God is worshiped throughout. As to those who remained in their unbelief (the Jews of today), and those who would refashion that unbelief into a bold new (really old, but to them it was bold and new) statement of monotheistic fervor (the Muslims), what can we say of them? As they recognize the OT prophets in some way (you know, the “Abrahamic religion” label), it would be wrong to say that they bear no relation to us. At the same time, however, it would be wrong to place them together with us when they themselves deny what we affirm: That Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten before all ages, the promised Messiah and deliverer of Israel and through His fulfillment the very same Messiah and Savior of all peoples, has come and that their unbelief is therefore disbelief in the One God who spoke to Moses in the burning bush, who gave Him the tablets of the law, and who said of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ “This is My Son, in Whom I am well pleased”.

Do the Jews worship that God? No. Again, they have chosen not to due to what are, in their view, perfectly valid theological and eschatological reasons. The same is true with the Muslims and any other non-Christian group. The denial of the unbelievers has no bearing on the truth, however. Saying that the God of the OT and of the NT are one and the same (as is right for every Christian to say) does not “trap” us into worshiping as the modern Jews or Muslims worship. These are the descendents of the first disbelievers in Christ our God, while our God is indeed the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
 
By your question, I’m not sure you’ve understood my posts, PRmerger.
This is true.
The point of all that stuff about how Christians divide history is needed to explain how it is that we can (and always have, and continue to, and always will) say Christ is foretold by the OT prophets, who were very much Jews. With the incarnation of Christ, however, everything changes (this is the entire ‘point’ of the Incarnation, in fact, if it can be viewed on a utilitarian basis for the sake of simplification). This is what makes Theosis possible, and what gathers together the lost sheep of not just Israel, but of the many mansions of God. What was to some degree shrouded and found in archetypes in the OT becomes explicit with the incarnation of our Lord. If you ever attend an Oriental Orthodox liturgy, this is manifest symbolically in the usage of the altar veil, which is thrown open to symbolize the revelation of God in Christ (among other things), which has torn history in two. Again, with the defining event that tears away the veil over the people’s eyes having passed us (and the Jews, and the Muslims, and everybody) some 2000 years ago, we cannot look at things before that time and after that time and say that they are the same or to be considered the same for those who claim to be the descendants of this or that group of spiritual forefathers.
All of the above is very Catholic. 👍
Again, it is the Jews who have changed; not God.
Indeed.
The true followers of God in the OT worshiped Him in hopes of His coming, while those of the NT worshiped Him in celebration of His having come. We as Christians are perhaps more closely identified with those of the second era (since we too worship in a post-Incarnation world), but they are both ours. The entire Bible and all of its history and promises are ours, as the same God is worshiped throughout.
Amen!
As to those who remained in their unbelief (the Jews of today), and those who would refashion that unbelief into a bold new (really old, but to them it was bold and new) statement of monotheistic fervor (the Muslims), what can we say of them? As they recognize the OT prophets in some way (you know, the “Abrahamic religion” label), it would be wrong to say that they bear no relation to us.
Indeed.
At the same time, however, it would be wrong to place them together with us when they themselves deny what we affirm:
Of course.

Just like it would be wrong to place the over tens of thousands of Christian denominations together with us when they themselves deny what we affirm (namely, the seven sacraments, the ministerial priesthood, etc etc etc)

But surely you wouldn’t say that these Christians worship a different Christ than we do?
That Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten before all ages, the promised Messiah and deliverer of Israel and through His fulfillment the very same Messiah and Savior of all peoples, has come and that their unbelief is therefore disbelief in the One God who spoke to Moses in the burning bush, who gave Him the tablets of the law, and who said of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ “This is My Son, in Whom I am well pleased”.
Do the Jews worship that God? No. Again, they have chosen not to due to what are, in their view, perfectly valid theological and eschatological reasons. The same is true with the Muslims and any other non-Christian group. The denial of the unbelievers has no bearing on the truth, however. Saying that the God of the OT and of the NT are one and the same (as is right for every Christian to say) does not “trap” us into worshiping as the modern Jews or Muslims worship. These are the descendents of the first disbelievers in Christ our God, while our God is indeed the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
I would assume, then, that you apply the same exclusion to all Christians who do not worship as you do?

Are they all worshipping a different Christ than you?
 
If they do not worship the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, three Persons who are one in essence, indivisible, uncreated, and without beginning or end, then I would say that we do not worship the same God. There are many who call themselves Christians who do not do so. We are warned explicitly in the scriptures that there shall arise false Christs (Matthew 24:24) so as to deceive people, and that is indeed what has happened.
 
Yes. Allah is literally the Arabic word for “The God”

If you say it is not, then you just as easily say “god” is not if you use it in the context of Vishnu or Krishna.

A word is just a word. It has no inherent meaning, only what we have given it through linguistic evolution.
 
I have read that before and I am not convinced.
Then perhaps nothing will convince you? 🤷
For difficult concepts (for Catholics), sometimes it’s just best to trust that the Holy Spirit has guided the Church to the proper understanding and to remember the Scripture passage from Isaiah 55:8-9:

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, says the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
 
It sounds like all these arguments are over semantics. Yes they believe in one God like we do, and if in good conscience, pray to the same God we do
 
If they do not worship the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, three Persons who are one in essence, indivisible, uncreated, and without beginning or end, then I would say that we do not worship the same God. There are many who call themselves Christians who do not do so. We are warned explicitly in the scriptures that there shall arise false Christs (Matthew 24:24) so as to deceive people, and that is indeed what has happened.
So it appears that you are saying that Presbyterians worship the same Christ as we do, even if they deny the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Is that a correct assessment of your position?
 
Somewhat semantics. Belief and worship bring the picture into focus, we believe in one God, but what we believe or accept, through trust and faith differ, thus the worship differs and understandably.

This doesn’t change the premise of belief in one God. But I would contend that this doesn’t mean we in fact “worship” the same God, it in fact means a united belief that there is one God, that becomes much much more narrow in what we accept, trust and believe by faith thus “worship”. Its doesn’t 100% equate to one God, it can’t for the simple reason we admit imperfect worship in the equation, which if continued on an imperfect path to finality can’t lead to the one God we all claim exists as the first truth. That be the case we would be all debating about one God needlessly. The problem is evil, even the devil knows there’s one God. He believes in one God the God of Abraham too.

That said we all believe there’s one God, and I agree they worship whom they believe to be the one God as we are also and the Jews too. So I would say for sure there’s one God as do the Jews and Islam. Worship indicates a variable in the equation which all roads may not wind up in paradise.
 
I thought I already answered that in posts #65 and #67. The prophets and patriarchs of the OT worshiped God. The Jews, Muslims, and others who have rejected Christ do not.
I agree. The patriarchs and prophets of old worshipped the Triune God (see the Hagioretic Tome).

As far as Muslims are concerned, they worship the false god who spoke to Muhammad. At best this false god is a complete fiction, while at worst it is a demon. I tend to hold to the latter idea.
 
If that’s the case, then you can say the same thing about Jews. Which you can’t, because Jesus is Jewish.
Rabbinic Judaism, as opposed to Biblical Judaism, is predicated upon an open denial of the divinity of Christ, and so modern Jews do not worship the one true God, but the patriarchs and prophets worshipped the Tri-hypostatic God, as the ancient Church Fathers and the Church’s tradition clearly affirms.
 
Rabbinic Judaism can be classified as a Christian heresy, because those who subscribe to it honor the Old Testament, while simultaneously rejecting the claims of Christ. Rabbinic Jews have much in common with the Judaizing heresy of the early centuries of the Christian era. Islam, on the other hand, is a completely false religion founded upon a supposed revelation (i.e., a revelation that explicitly denies the divinity of Christ and the dogma of the Holy Trinity) that was given to Muhammad by the mediation of an “angel.” Islam has nothing in common with the true faith, since it openly denies the central mysteries of the one Orthodox faith, which is affirmed only in the Holy Church.
 
I agree. The patriarchs and prophets of old worshipped the Triune God (see the Hagioretic Tome).

As far as Muslims are concerned, they worship the false god who spoke to Muhammad. At best this false god is a complete fiction, while at worst it is a demon. I tend to hold to the latter idea.
How can one worship the Triune God but not know that they’re worshipping the Triune God?
 
How can one worship the Triune God but not know that they’re worshipping the Triune God?
According to the Fathers, and to the theologians of the medieval period in the East, the patriarchs and prophets experienced God as Triune, and so that is how they worshipped Him, i.e., they honored the Father, and His Logos, and His Spirit. It is important to remember that the ancient Fathers did not limit knowledge to intellectual propositions, but saw knowledge more as experience, and this viewpoint fits better with the teaching of Sacred Scripture itself. It is one thing to know something about God, and quite another to actually experience Him (i.e., know Him in your heart).
 
According to the Fathers, and to the theologians of the medieval period in the East, the patriarchs and prophets experienced God as Triune, and so that is how they worshipped Him, i.e., they honored the Father, and His Logos, and His Spirit. It is important to remember that the ancient Fathers did not limit knowledge to intellectual propositions, but saw knowledge more as experience, and this viewpoint fits better with the teaching of Sacred Scripture itself. It is one thing to know something about God, and quite another to actually experience Him (i.e., know Him in your heart).
I don’t have a problem with any of the above.

That is why we say that anyone who worships God, whether he is a Christian or not, worships the Triune God to the degree that what he worships is consonant with the Truth.

Which is to say if a Muslim worships God as the Transcendent Creator, as One, as all merciful, all powerful, all knowing, then he is worshipping the One True God.
 
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