Is God's Love unconditional?

[fewnotmany]

I’m going to try to make an overly simplified algebraic equation and provide an example where God’s love in the Bible can be viewed as conditional:

1 John 4:8:
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

The English word love in the original Greek text is Agape (ag-ah’-pay). It does not mean to have affection for.

Same word as in 2 John 6 “this is love (agape) that we walk after his commandments”

God = Love.
Love = obeying the commandments.

Rev. 3:19
'Those whom I love (Phileo), I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

If God, as the word in is used in the original Greek text (Theos), means magistrate, then He only has affection (phileo) to those that obey His Laws.

An example . . .

As a citizen of the USA, I have the right to drive on the streets of this country. But that right is conditional. I can not pull out of my drive way and proceed to drive down the left side of the road. The Law of the land will catch up with me very quickly and either give me a ticket, or I’ll get hit by oncoming traffic.

Could someone please explain to me from a Biblical foundation why Catholics believe God’s Love is unconditional?

 

[seagal]

I wasn’t sure if I could answer this question, but it got me thinking and this is what I came up with.

Even God can’t love us against our will–I’m using your definition of love here - agape, not our idea of emotional love. God loves all his children. But if we choose to ignore God and his commandments (if we do not love) then we have hardened our hearts against him. You know the saying “you can’t get water from a stone”, well you can’t put water into a stone either. If our hearts are hard as stone, then God’s love can’t enter. He can pour his love all around us but we can’t feel it or even recognize it because it’s not entering our hearts. Yes, God can change our hearts, but only if we want him to and ask him to. God’s love is unconditional, but we have to want it to receive it.

Don’t know if this makes sense to you (or even theological sense) but it’s my :twocents: Thanks for making me think today

 

[Will_B]

God is Love…

God is the supreme parent.

Does a parent love his/her child unconditionally? Most do, but God always does.

Does a parent discipline his/her child? Most do, but God always does.

If a Child breaks the law, say murder a teacher in school, does the parent call the police and turn the child over to the authorities? Well, a good parent would… God always does. (God’s authorities are Himself and those he may have chosen to judge)

Does a parent have mercy? God always does… He died for our sins

 

[BRB]

Could someone please explain to me from a Biblical foundation why Catholics believe God’s Love is unconditional?

Because God desires All his creation to enjoy his favor. We are all offspring of original man/women. God lets his sun and rain fall on both the just and the unjust. God wrote his laws upon the hearts of all mankind. God sends his disciples to all the nations.
And, Christ died and has ALREADY paid the sin penalty for us all.

But, now comes the CONDITIONAL part of his Love. We must have Faith and act on our beliefs. We are not Robots … we all must exercise our Free Wills.

 

[fewnotmany]

Because God desires All his creation to enjoy his favor.

When you use all with a capital A, do you mean everyman, woman, child that ever lived?

 

[fewnotmany]

Even God can’t love us against our will

Are you saying God’s love is subjective to the will of man?

 

[Angelpalmoni]

Yes God’s Love is unconditional, but God is also Just… Justice must be paid if not through Christ’s atonement then you must suffer yourself.

 

[Philthy]

I’m going to try to make an overly simplified algebraic equation and provide an example where God’s love in the Bible can be viewed as conditional:

1 John 4:8:
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

The English word love in the original Greek text is Agape (ag-ah’-pay). It does not mean to have affection for.

Same word as in 2 John 6 “this is love (agape) that we walk after his commandments”

God = Love.
Love = obeying the commandments.

Rev. 3:19
'Those whom I love (Phileo), I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

If God, as the word in is used in the original Greek text (Theos), means magistrate, then He only has affection (phileo) to those that obey His Laws.

An example . . .

As a citizen of the USA, I have the right to drive on the streets of this country. But that right is conditional. I can not pull out of my drive way and proceed to drive down the left side of the road. The Law of the land will catch up with me very quickly and either give me a ticket, or I’ll get hit by oncoming traffic.

Could someone please explain to me from a Biblical foundation why Catholics believe God’s Love is unconditional?

Please state your conclusion in a simplified form so that we can understand your thoughts. For example:

God only disciplines those he loves
God does not discipline everyone
Therefore, God does not love everyone

If anyone disagrees with one of your premises leading to your conclusion then you can defend it with your knowledge of Greek.
But lets the premises of your argument clearly articulated and presented in a form which leads to a conclusion.

 

[notsmart]

God’s love is unconditional.
Our properly returning that love to Him is not.

 

[fewnotmany]

Please state your conclusion in a simplified form so that we can understand your thoughts.

There in lies the reason for this topic – to articulate a conclusion using well defined words that everyone can agree on.

My OP presents Scriptural citations where God had affection (love) for those that obey His commandments. There is no other conclusion but that God’s love is conditional.

I’ve heard a lot of opinions of God’s love being unconditional over the years. IMHO, those opinions read like fortune cookie aphorism.

I’d really like to see Scriptural support that God’s love is unconditional in order to make an informed conclusion.

I do appreciate your thoughtful reply. I hope you can provide the citations that I’ve requested.

 

[Nickkname]

I’m going to try to make an overly simplified algebraic equation and provide an example where God’s love in the Bible can be viewed as conditional:

1 John 4:8:
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

The English word love in the original Greek text is Agape (ag-ah’-pay). It does not mean to have affection for.

Same word as in 2 John 6 “this is love (agape) that we walk after his commandments”

God = Love.
Love = obeying the commandments.

Rev. 3:19
'Those whom I love (Phileo), I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

If God, as the word in is used in the original Greek text (Theos), means magistrate, then He only has affection (phileo) to those that obey His Laws.

An example . . .

As a citizen of the USA, I have the right to drive on the streets of this country. But that right is conditional. I can not pull out of my drive way and proceed to drive down the left side of the road. The Law of the land will catch up with me very quickly and either give me a ticket, or I’ll get hit by oncoming traffic.

Could someone please explain to me from a Biblical foundation why Catholics believe God’s Love is unconditional?

The Lord died on the Cross for mankind. There is no clearer proof of His love for all souls.

 

[fewnotmany]

The Lord died on the Cross for mankind. There is no clearer proof of His love for all souls.

Please answer the following question with a simple “yes” or “no” . . .

Does God love every man, woman, child that ever live?

 

[Greg27]

I think the traditional answer is God’s love is unconditional, but to have a proper relationship with God is conditional as God is just. It is not possible in theological terms to reject God completely or to commit grave sins and then claim to be on the same terms with God as the most virtuous person.

 

[fhansen]

God’s love is huge, vast, unimaginable-and continuously unconditional-in spite of our best efforts to reject Him and this love of His. But we *can * reject it.

 

[seagal]

Are you saying God’s love is subjective to the will of man?

No, maybe I didn’t word that clearly. I meant that God can shower us with love but we have to receive it. God won’t make us love him back.

 

[seagal]

Please answer the following question with a simple “yes” or “no” . . .

Does God love every man, woman, child that ever live?

Yes. Even the ones who we think of as unloveable.

Do you love each and every one of your children? Do they disappoint you sometimes? Do you love them anyway? How much more does God, our divine father, love us?

We often put human limitations on God, thinking he couldn’t possibly love someone like Hitler (for example). Don’t forget Hitler was also God’s child. God loved him as much as he loves anyone of us. Apparently though (because we can never know what is in someone else’s heart) Hitler did not love God or he would not have acted the way he did. God can’t make us love him back, it’s our free choice.

The parables about the lost sheep, the lost coin and the prodigal son (Luke 15:3-32), tell us that God loves all of us equally, but that he is especially joyful when one who has strayed returns. He never turns his back on anyone of us no matter what we’ve done. He always waits for us to change our hearts and return to him. I imagine God agonizes over every one who chooses not to.

 

[Starwynd]

Are you saying God’s love is subjective to the will of man?

When people pray to God, they always expect Him to bow down to their wishes and say yes, so at the very least many people believe He is. They never see that no answer might be His way of saying No, I will not grant your prayer request at this time, and can not understand why God would say no.

In regards to the other post, God seems to be hsotile to illegitemit(sp?) children, here’s the verses, although aken out of context of the chapter, to show it:

Deuteronomy 23:2 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Zechariah 9:6 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

6And a bastard shall dwell in Ashdod, and I will cut off the pride of the Philistines.

Hebrews 12:8 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=bastard&qs_version=9

I’m still reading the entire chapters on these though.

 

[BRB]

When you use all with a capital A, do you mean everyman, woman, child that ever lived?

Thats the way Christ used it … he died for ALL. “Whosoever will may come”.

 

[BRB]

My OP presents Scriptural citations where God had affection (love) for those that obey His commandments. There is no other conclusion but that God’s love is conditional.

.

No … you be 1/2 right [glass half full viewpoint].

Christ loves us ALL … from your/our conception in mother’s womb.

Christ called for ALL the children to come unto him … that he might bless them, and demonstrate his UNCONDITIONAL love to them.

Thats why abortion is a Grave Sin.

 

[fewnotmany]

Yes (God love every man, woman, child that ever live).

Do you love each and every one of your children?

IMHO, I believe your analogy is flawed. Please allow me to explain.

If my son is playing in the park with the neighbor kids. I open the door and yell for them to come home for dinner. Do all the children hear my voice? Do all the children respond to my call?