Is God's Love unconditional?

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fewnotmany said:
IMHO, I believe your analogy is flawed. Please allow me to explain.

If my son is playing in the park with the neighbor kids. I open the door and yell for them to come home for dinner. Do all the children hear my voice? Do all the children respond to my call?
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If you are God then all should heed your call.Since you are not God then only the children to whom you are directly responsible for should heed your call. You say that you ‘yell for them to come’ can I infer that for that meal you are responsible for feeding them all? If so should they hear you shout they should all come.

Unfortunately not all heed God’s call. He does call us all. But humans have what I call selective hearing and we choose to ignore that little voice prompting us to follow Him. He does still love us though…unconditionally.

I love my children unconditionally…does this mean that I am not ever disappointed or angry with them? Of course not! It is my job to teach my children the way of Christ. If all their actions (good and bad) were deemed acceptable in my eyes I wouldn’t be fufilling my God given job of teaching my children right from wrong. Actions have consequences…good and bad. The same goes for us within our relationship with God. Our actions have consequences…sometime good and sometimes bad. Because our children sometimes do things that make us angry or disappointed do we no longer love them? Of course we still love them. Just as we are still loved by God even when we drift away from who He wants us to be. He is just patiently (and some times not so patiently) awaiting our return to him.
 
If my son is playing in the park with the neighbor kids. I open the door and yell for them to come home for dinner. Do all the children hear my voice? Do all the children respond to my call?
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The ones who want to eat do 🙂

Unless I misunderstand you, this is exactly what I’m saying. When you open the door and yell you’re only calling your children. For God, all the children in the park are his children.
 
MomblessedX3 said:
, , , , You say that you ‘yell for them to come’ can I infer that for that meal you are responsible for feeding them all? .
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Sorry about the misplaced pronoun. My six month old was bouncing on my knee as I was typing and I clicked ‘Submit Reply’ before proofreading.

One more time . . .

If my son and daughter are playing in the park with the neighbor kids. I open the door and yell ‘Dinner’s ready’! Do all the children hear my voice? Do all the children respond to my call?

The answer to the first ‘all’ is yes.
The answer to the second ‘all’ is no.

What I have just done is present a simple analogy of the difference between what James Akin writes about in “A TIPTOE THROUGH TULIP” posted on catholic.com.

Sufficient Grace -
Being as much as is needed.

Efficacious Grace-
Producing or capable of producing a desired effect.

The desired effect of me calling my children, and no one else, is that they came home for dinner.

Likewise, isn’t the life\death\resurrection of Jesus known by all men? Yes. In other words, Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all men to know who Jesus was. Atheist\Buddist\Hindos\Islamist\Jews all know who Jesus was.

However, not all men are going to come to a knowledge of Christ. The bible teaches that only a few are. Jesus’ resurrection produced the desired effect within His Family.
 
Starwynd said:
In regards to the other post, God seems to be hsotile to illegitemit(sp?) children, here’s the verses, although aken out of context of the chapter, to show it:

I’m still reading the entire chapters on these though.
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Well then that explains why the Church only dropped that as a reason to reject an applicant for the priesthood 20 years ago.
I thought they were just coming up with punitive reasons to disqualify someone.
Thanks!
 
fewnotmany said:
Likewise, isn’t the life\death\resurrection of Jesus known by all men? Yes.
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No, not everyone in the world has heard of Jesus.
fewnotmany said:
Jesus’ resurrection produced the desired effect within His Family.
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Respectfully, I don’t think your analogy holds up. His Family is all of us, all of mankind, not just Chrisians. Re-read John 3:16. it says
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.” (emphasis mine)
 
If God’s love is not unconditional, what is the condition? How do we lose God’s love? Show me a passage that says God would stop loving us for any reason.
 
seagal said:
If God’s love is not unconditional, what is the condition? How do we lose God’s love? Show me a passage that says God would stop loving us for any reason.
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He did not love the illigitamate born children enough to let them be priests in the Catholic Church.
Or women who were not virgins to be nuns for some time. Like nearly the entire history of the Church.
Go figure how limited his love can really be!
 
notsmart said:
He did not love the illigitamate born children enough to let them be priests in the Catholic Church.
Or women who were not virgins to be nuns for some time. Like nearly the entire history of the Church.
Go figure how limited his love can really be!
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You’re talking about rules of the Church which have since been changed. They don’t reflect God’s love for us, they were only the rules and guidelines his Church thought were fitting at the time.
 
Hello fewnotmany; here are some thoughts to challenge the mind to think.

God the Father loves each and every one of us as he loves himself?

Although I cannot make any claims for truth; the greatest commandments do not seem out of place when searching for a meaning of God’s love for us. Maybe there are ways to test for meaning by asking some questions; we talk about God’s infinite love for us, but how could God love each one of us infinitely more than he loves himself?

In a way, God loves us more than he loves himself, because he was willing to do what was good for us but not good for him (send his Son to die). In a sort of contradicting way, God loves himself more than us, because he knows that he is the greatest being and retains the power of heaven and hell.

If God really did love me as he loves himself; what kind of a burden would I be to God. If I did not sin it would be easier for God to love me; but every time I sin does God forgive me so that he may continue loving me as he loves himself? In order for God to persist loving me in this way he would need to keep forgiving me many big sins and many repeated sins?

Jesus on the cross said forgive them Father for they know not what they are doing. In many ways I look on Jesus saying this directly to me. Does the death and resurrection of Jesus hang on the greatest commandments?

In order for me to love my neighbours as I love myself, should I forgive them each time they harm me in some way? If I don’t forgive them; how can I continue to love them as I love myself? If you stole from me should I forgive you, if you punched me should I forgive you again, if you ran off with my wife should I forgive you again?
At what point should I stop loving you as I love myself? If I stop loving my neighbour as I love myself because he has hurt me in some way, do I disobey the greatest commandments?

Is this how God loves us?

Eric
 
I have not been able to read any of the posts, no time.

Some others probably said this.

However, I think that this should be inverted, that is,

Our love for God should be unconditional.

We should accept all of His grace.

He gives grace, wisdom, understanding, counsel, knoweldge, piety, fortitdue, fear of the Lord, patience, kindness, joy, sobriety, chastity, and so much more.
 
If I offer you a present and you choose not to accept it, that does not negate the existense of the present.

In the same way, God’s love is always available to those willing to accept it.
 
notsmart said:
He did not love the illigitamate born children enough to let them be priests in the Catholic Church.
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As noted by others, this was a rule of the Church and has nothing to do with whether God loved those people.

But even if we are talking about God’s choices, God does not call everyone to the priesthood. Does He love less those whom He calls to other vocations instead? I don’t think so.
Or women who were not virgins to be nuns for some time. Like nearly the entire history of the Church.
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This one I don’t think is factually correct. History, and even histories of acknowledged saints, offer examples of women once married who entered religious life after their husbands died. It is unlikely that they were virgins at the time 🙂

Heck, even in the New Testament you had both virgins and widows mentioned, with some implication that these were terms of religious status rather than just descriptions of women who happened to be virginal or widowed at the time.
Go figure how limited his love can really be!
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Again, rules established by the Church that impose qualifications for certain vocations or ministries – even if those are qualifications we would not agree with today (and the Church no longer imposes) have nothing to do with the extent or degree of God’s love. Those rules didn’t even come from God directly, else the Church could not relax them later.

Usagi
 
fewnotmany said:
Please answer the following question with a simple “yes” or “no” . . .

Does God love every man, woman, child that ever live?
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Yes.

And every angel. Even Lucifer and his followers (though not, of course, their choices or deeds).

Of course, that He loves everyone does not mean that He does not permit suffering (clearly He does, even to ones like Job who have never displeased Him), nor that he does not employ some instances of suffering as chastisement to those who have gone astray (as we see many times with His beloved Israel), nor that He will not ultimately permit those who do not return His Love to consign themselves to Hell (as we see from the example of the fallen angels).

Usagi
 
Another way of looking at the matter -----

God’s love to ALL is UNCONDITIONAL … to the final moments of our lives.

Our embracing it is CONDITIONAL … individually, we either accept or reject Work of Christ for us.
 
fewnotmany said:
Please answer the following question with a simple “yes” or “no” . . .

Does God love every man, woman, child that ever live?
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yes

For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten Son, that Whom ever believeth in him may not parish but have everlasting life.
god unconditional love give us the means to come to salvation in Christ. those who choose not to are still loved but by there own choice have rejected Gods love and salvation.
 
fewnotmany said:
Please answer the following question with a simple “yes” or “no” . . .

Does God love every man, woman, child that ever live?
yes

Just to clarify, what does love mean to you?
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That I care for people I don’t want them to suffer and find joy in there good fortune and grief in their misfortune. It does not mean that I always like them or what they do. I love all there are a number of people I don’t like.
 
There in lies the confusion. We don’t agree on what love is.
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fewtomany, what is your definition of love?

And I would be interested in your answer to a question I asked on this thread a few days ago. If (as you seem to think) God’s love is not unconditional, what in your opinion is/are the condition/s under which we can lose God’s love?
 
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