Is HAVING faith enough?

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Catholic4aReasn

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This question is for our Protestant brothers and sisters.

We all agree that HAVING faith is necessary for salvation. Is LIVING the faith that one has necessary for salvation? Why or why not?

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
Having God’s Grace and faith in Jesus will lead someone to bear good fruit. The tree bears the fruit the fruit does not bear the tree.
 
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Shibboleth:
Having God’s Grace and faith in Jesus will lead someone to bear good fruit. The tree bears the fruit the fruit does not bear the tree.
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OK. That being said, is living the faith that one has necessary for salvation?
 
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Shibboleth:
Having God’s Grace and faith in Jesus will lead someone to bear good fruit. The tree bears the fruit the fruit does not bear the tree.
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That being said, is lliving the faith that one has necessary for salvation?

I wanted to post a poll with this but didn’t at the time, so I’m posting the poll as another thread. If anyone knows how to delete this thread, or if a moderator could close it so we don’t have two, please let me know.

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
OK. I submitted my new thread but it didn’t give the option to create a poll. What’s up with that?
 
We all agree that HAVING faith is necessary for salvation. Is LIVING the faith that one has necessary for salvation? Why or why not?

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
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Catholic4aReasn:
That being said, is lliving the faith that one has necessary for salvation?
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I think a better way to approach the classical protestant position is that it is not “necessary” in the sense of being the ground of justification, but necessarily connected to justification such that justification cannot exist without a corresponding regenerated and sanctified heart that expresses it’s new nature in good works and charity (the parable that shibboleth gave is illustrative of this principle).

If you make a poll, it’s results would be skewed because people wouldn’t know which way to side on this issue without proper terminology. The way you phrased it could be answered both yes and no unless you define the difference between the mutiple senses of necessity.

ken
 
II Paradox II:
I think a better way to approach the classical protestant position is that it is not “necessary” in the sense of being the ground of justification, but necessarily connected to justification such that justification cannot exist without a corresponding regenerated and sanctified heart that expresses it’s new nature in good works and charity (the parable that shibboleth gave is illustrative of this principle).

ken
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But can one be saved if one HAS faith but is not living it?

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
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Catholic4aReasn:
But can one be saved if one HAS faith but is not living it?
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If they never do, no. The metaphysical work of God in a human heart always has an effect.

One additional note - the “faith” you describe would be only intellectual assent, thus not sufficient. Standard protestant definitions of faith are much more broad, along the lines of the idea of belief hope and charity all subsumed under “faith” itself.

ken
 
JAMES 2:17 In the same way faith, if it doesn’t have works, is dead by itself. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without works, and I will show you faith from my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. The demons also believe–and they shudder. 20 Foolish man! Are you willing to learn that faith without works is useless? 21 Wasn’t Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active together with his works, and by works, faith was perfected

Faith without works is dead.
 
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Catholic4aReasn:
OK. I submitted my new thread but it didn’t give the option to create a poll. What’s up with that?
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Maybe the moderators think we are polled out…:rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl:

But I do believe that we must live the faith that has been given to us for salvation…
 
II Paradox II:
If they never do, no. The metaphysical work of God in a human heart always has an effect.

ken
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So if one cannot be saved if he is not living the faith that he has then how is it that living one’s faith is not necessary for salvation?

****Answer only if you are the one who voted “no” in the poll. 🙂

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
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Catholic4aReasn:
So if one cannot be saved if he is not living the faith that he has then how is it that living one’s faith is not necessary for salvation?
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I already answered that in my post above. The are multiple senses of the term “necessity”. It not necessary as a ground of justification, but it is necessarily linked to that justification such that one cannot exist without the other.

ken
 
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Catholic4aReasn:
But can one be saved if one HAS faith but is not living it?

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
Click to expand...
One CAN be saved without faith.

There was the man who was lowered through the ceiling by his friends on a stretcher, Jesus saw their faith and he was healed.

The Centurian who told Jesus to just say the word and his daughter would be healed and Jesus said, “Because of your faith she is healed.”

If you do not have strong faith, make sure you have friends that do.
 
II Paradox II:
I already answered that in my post above. The are multiple senses of the term “necessity”. It not necessary as a ground of justification, but it is necessarily linked to that justification such that one cannot exist without the other.

ken
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Does your faith tradition use the terms “salvation” and “justification” interchangeably?
 
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Catholic4aReasn:
Does your faith tradition use the terms “salvation” and “justification” interchangeably?
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At times, yes, but more formal expositions don’t. I am not using them interchageably.

Justification would be a part of salvation, not the whole of it.

ken
 
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dhgray:
There was the man who was lowered through the ceiling by his friends on a stretcher, Jesus saw their faith and he was healed.

The Centurian who told Jesus to just say the word and his daughter would be healed and Jesus said, “Because of your faith she is healed.”

If you do not have strong faith, make sure you have friends that do.
Click to expand...
Of course many people are healed that are not neccesarily saved.

We do not disagree with this on the level that you are stating. Lutheran’s have a strong belief in Baptism and its necessity for salvation. Of course an infant does not choose to baptize itself.

So is this “works?”

Yes, but it is not our works and it comes out of our faith and not because of any meritous behavior on our part.

Without faith we would not be able to baptize just as the person in the stretcher would not have been healed without faith.
 
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Shibboleth:
Of course many people are healed that are not neccesarily saved.

We do not disagree with this on the level that you are stating. Lutheran’s have a strong belief in Baptism and its necessity for salvation. Of course an infant does not choose to baptize itself.

So is this “works?”

Yes, but it is not our works and it comes out of our faith and not because of any meritous behavior on our part.

Without faith we would not be able to baptize just as the person in the stretcher would not have been healed without faith.
Click to expand...
My question doesn’t really have anything to do with any particular rituals, but just a general living of one’s faith.

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
II Paradox II:
If they never do, no.
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I am going to disagree with this on the grounds that a tree needs the right environment and amount of time to properly bear good fruit.

There are instances when people cease to reject God on their deathbed or are in strange environments where one does not have the opportunity to do good works.
 
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Catholic4aReasn:
My question doesn’t really have anything to do with any particular rituals, but just a general living of one’s faith.

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
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Oh… that’s simple.

It is impossible to have faith and not live it.

That does not mean that one living the faith will not sin and do horrilbe sins in the process.
 
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