Is healthcare a right or a responsibility?

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Why is it whenever people say “healthcare for everyone” the opposing side says “the government should not be in charge of healthcare”. I don’t care who is in charge of the healthcare, everyone should have access to good healthcare and they shouldn’t have to pay for it (when it is used by them) for the rest of their lives. It should be inexpensive like a grocery bill not like a house payment. We are humane people and we should treat ALL humanely.

Now some said about abortion, plastic surgery, hair removal, liposuction and so on (special cases), those can be discussed (or debated separately) on how they should be paid for. But procedures ranging from broken bones to major abrasions, pregnancies, cancers, heart problems and so on, everyone should have good health coverage on those things and they shouldn’t take a person years to pay the bill.

This can be done in the private sector but with some government regulations so all people are treated fairly.
 
People will always want something that has value, when it’s offered to them for free (or when it’s paid for by someone else). Whether they like it or not is irrelevent.

For that matter, you’re also committing the fallacy of “I don’t like going to the doctor, therefore no one else does.” You clearly don’t know many doctors or lawyers: enormous numbers of people just love going to see doctors and lawyers. Why? Because they get made a fuss over by, and get attention from, well-educated and successful people. They’ll do it more if it costs them nothing.

I know a very successful and equally very cynical personal-injury lawyer (the no recovery/no fee kind) who makes a huge living, by his own admission, by injecting what he describes as some feeling of being important into the lives of who he describes as very mundane people.

Have you ever been deposed in a lawsuit? There’s nothing like having a roomful of lawyers hanging on your every word to make you feel awfully relevant.

Medicine is the same. I knew a lady who loved seeing doctors because a nice, well-educated and usually put together person would sit with her and listen to all of what ailed her.
 
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You may have learned it. Bully for you.
Many people never learn it. As I said above, it’s not whether you like something that makes you take it when it’s free. It’s whether it has value.

Most people hate going to the dentist. Don’t you think people will decide they want more dental care, when it’s free? Of course they will. It’s human nature.
 
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VonDerTann said:
Don’t you think people will decide they want more dental care, when it’s free? Of course they will. It’s human nature.
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You know what’s funny about healthcare? The more you have the less you need. Think of all the prevention that regular healthcare provides. Wouldn’t it be great if you didn’t have to worry about letting things slide because you can’t afford it?

Ever had dental surgery because a tooth broke but you can’t afford to fix it? So you let it sit till it just can’t wait?

I been there, now you have a bill and a week off work.
 
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I’m not sure I see your point. If you’re saying, “have more preventive healthcare, since it prevents larger problems,” OK, but I’m not sure that helps much. Who pays for the preventive care? And isn’t the preventive care just sort of spreading out, or maybe pre-paying in a way, for other care? We’re still left with whether it’s a right or not.

So I’m sorry, I’m just clearly missing your point.
 
I know you’re joking.

Too bad I don’t see the humor in it.

Don’t you think that when healthcare is suddenly free in the US, a significant segment of the population will want “full body scans,” and all sorts of other medical care, “just in case”?

Maybe someone has Munchausen’s syndrome…or they like the attention…or they’re a hypochondriac…or maybe they just like the drama of telling their friends about their ailments, because they have nothing else to talk about…

…so now, when I need an x-ray I’m waiting behind 4 people (one of each of the above). You see my point, or you don’t.

As I’ve said often, it’s not whether you like something that makes you take it when it’s free (and lots of people love medical care!). It’s whether what’s free has value, and medical care has lots of value. In fact, judging by the way people gripe about medical costs, it clearly has enormous value!
 
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VonDerTann said:
As I’ve said often, it’s not whether you like something that makes you take it when it’s free (and lots of people love medical care!). It’s whether what’s free has value, and medical care has lots of value. In fact, judging by the way people gripe about medical costs, it clearly has enormous value!
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Have you any evidence, from any of the countries where healthcare is tax funded, that a significant number of people are just going to the doctor willy nilly to get ‘free’ care rather than for actual medical need?
 
Do you have any evidence that they don’t?

As to my own, socialized medicine = long wait times (because people are demanding more treatment). A 2/20/18 paper by the Foundation for Economic Education pointed to Canada’s taxpayer-funded healthcare system as leading to enormous and lengthening wait times that were described as “insane,” with wait times growing and with the wait for a neurologist to be as high as 4.5 years. Specialist doctors reported that the average wait time between referral from a primary care doctor, to treatment by a specialist, was 21+ weeks.

Interesting that some posters really think that there’s no correlation between 1) valuable things being free and 2) people taking more. Pretty soon at this rate I’ll probably be asked to prove things like “the sun will come up tomorrow.”
 
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Like the prior poster…do you have any evidence of that? 🙂
 
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OK, so your scholarly article is cited…where?

If people are going to stand on the position of “just because things are free, people won’t want them even a smidge more than if they cost money,” I can’t really argue with that sort thinking. I remember the taliban in Pakistan in 2001 kept asking the US, over and over, for more evidence that Osama Bin Laden was involved in 9/11. There was essentially no quantum of evidence that would ever be satisfactory. So it is with some folks here, particularly since they rarely have evidence for their own position. It’s the dodge of always saying, “give more evidence!”
 
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Health care is 100% a right. I don’t need anyone’s permission to seek health care. I also don’t have the right to make anyone else pay for it.
 
VonDerTann said:
Do you have any evidence that they don’t?
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Thats not how an argument works.
VonDerTann said:
As to my own, socialized medicine = long wait times (because people are demanding more treatment). A 2/20/18 paper by the Foundation for Economic Education pointed to Canada’s taxpayer-funded healthcare system as leading to enormous and lengthening wait times that were described as “insane,” with wait times growing and with the wait for a neurologist to be as high as 4.5 years. Specialist doctors reported that the average wait time between referral from a primary care doctor, to treatment by a specialist, was 21+ weeks.

Interesting that some posters really think that there’s no correlation between 1) valuable things being free and 2) people taking more. Pretty soon at this rate I’ll probably be asked to prove things like “the sun will come up tomorrow.”
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I live in a country with socialised health care and work in the NHS managing services. My patients are not just strolling into our outpatient department demanding we see them without a referral. Our service wait times, capacity, efficiency, DNA rates, cancellation rates etc are governed by a whole lot more than just excessive patient demand.

From a UK perspective, we’re not popping down to our local hospital to get an MRI or an Xray or ‘just a quick chat’ with a nice man in a white coat. The idea would be laughable.

Similarly, if I went to my GP tomorrow and said I wanted an MRI ‘just incase’, it just wouldn’t happen. There has to be an actual medical reason for a referral.
 
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Yeah that works well for us I guess, though some of the specialized care I would think is a function of our lower population not being able to support it. Do you have the same procedures available in smaller states that you do in New York?
 
So, can I ask again: are you saying that when medical care is free, people DON’T want it more? Are you saying it’s no factor at all in demand? Is that your position?
 
I know that Francis has stated that healthcare is a right. Maybe other Popes as well. I do not know if this is expressed in formal Church teaching.

I believe it is a right.
 
VonDerTann said:
So, can I ask again: are you saying that when medical care is free, people DON’T want it more? Are you saying it’s no factor at all in demand? Is that your position?
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Im saying the ‘want’ for medical attention is underpinned by a perceived ‘need’ for medical attention. If you do not have a ‘need’ for medical attention, you will not be getting that medical attention.

I am also telling you that the European attitude towards medical care is not ‘oh its free, i’m going to see my GP every week and demand a check up’.
 
I’m sorry, that’s not what I’m asking.

Are you saying the fact that medical care is free is no factor at all in it’s demand?

Are you saying that there is no correlation between free medical care and demand?

I’m not even asking for anything backing it up. I’m just asking your opinion.
 
VonDerTann said:
Don’t you think that when healthcare is suddenly free in the US, a significant segment of the population will want “full body scans,” and all sorts of other medical care, “just in case”?
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I’m more opposed to keeping the vast majority of the population stuck with unaffordable health care “just in case” some rare bird has Factitious Disorder, a condition that health care professionals already recognize and deal with on their own. People with this diagnosis are instead referred to mental health counseling.
VonDerTann said:
Are you saying that there is no correlation between free medical care and demand?
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I realize you’re not addressing me, but under a single-payer or free-market (i.e. non-employer-based), insurance system, I do expect demand to increase in the U.S. simply because more people will be able to get health care that they’ve been needing but putting off due to cost. As I stated above, seeking health care is taking responsibility for one’s health.
 
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