Is hitler in hell?

[TheTrinitySaves]

Thank you for the Bishop Sheen quote.

Its good to see you post again. And I really mean that despite our differences

 

[Johann_du_Toit]

Given that he rejected the Christian faith, and embraced a decidedly un-Christian ideology (oppression, violence, racism, murder) and committed unspeakable atrocities…well just saying I wouldn’t put my money on him being in heaven.

 

[thistle]

Is Hitler in hell?

Nobody knows who is in Hell. Only God knows that.

We can simply say that anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to Hell but we cannot say which specific individuals have died in a state of mortal sin.

 

[mikekle]

Obviously no one here can know the answer to that, but I have heard people in the past remark that they will be disappointed if they reach heaven and find murderers, rapists, etc alongside them, its almost like they take some joy in thinking people like Hitler or people who do terrible things to others, are suffering in hell, getting their come up ins so to speak.

Of course, I could not imagine being a Jewish person that was killed in the gas chambers, getting to heaven and finding the man that ordered it to be done, living in the mansion next door down…although, I will say I doubt this human type logic applies in the afterlife.

 

[Qoeleth]

Well- Hitler was bullied and beaten as a child, then unpopular as a youth, and a failure as an artist. Many people in such a situation either commit suicide, or become narcissists (as a kind of defence). Hitler tended towards the later.

Understandably, he lost his faith in the current ‘world order’, and fell under the influence of the Thulist occultists. Remember that the Thulist occult view incorporated a kind of Christian/Buddhist/Odinist syncretisim, underpinned by a certain spiritualized ‘nihilism,’ in which it is the battle, not the cause, which matters- as Nietsche said “A good war hallows any cause.”

He realised he had a gift for popular oratory, and took advantage of the opportunities that presented themselves. Yes, he hated Jews- but most Christians did too then, in 19th and early 20th Century Germany. He was not really more anti-Semitic than Luther or Wagner. But he worked it into a worldview which based on a strict dualism: on one side Germany, Europa, Christ, Buddha- on the other side, Jews, bankers, capitalists, communists, ‘wordlings’, degenerates.

Yes, he got it all wrong. But maybe he believed he was doing the right thing. Every year, thousands of people commit suicide at the age of 20 or so, or become drug addicts, losers, mad or whatever- instead, Hitler made his ‘suicide’ into a global event. Well, every time I see a bullied kid, I think , ‘maybe that’s the next Hitler’.

Personally, I believe God will judge him as a ‘bullied child’, reacting in the way that chance presented him…

 

[truetofaith]

Of course I don’t know either, but find it an interesting question.

I imagine it like this, keeping in mind while I imagine that it’s just imagining.

Perhaps when we die we are liberated from our self centered “me” focus, and thus are able to stand back and experience our life through the impact it had on others. We are looking through their eyes now instead of our own.

A person like Hitler may be spending quite a long time at this operation, given how many people he impacted. And it’s probably not going to be fun to experience his former self the way so many others did. It may feel very much like hell to him while he’s going through it, just as it sometimes does to us when we pop out of selfishness and realize that we’ve hurt someone we love.

I like to think that once a person has paid the price for their mistakes in this way, once they’ve seen the circumstances of their life from all perspectives, they melt back in to the God from where they came. Personally, just one view, I can’t reconcile a loving God and eternal punishment.

I’m not claiming any of this is true, and am happy to agree that I have no idea what the reality is. I’m just sharing that this is how it feels to me.

I don’t know where you are getting your theology from but…you don’t get time after you die to decide you now want to be with God & cancel out all your sins!
Bible says : it is given to man to die once & then the judgement.

 

[Blood_Angel]

Hitler to me always seemed to have noble intentions but was very misguided. Who knows how God judged him, it is beyond us.

 

[meltzerboy]

Hitler to me always seemed to have noble intentions but was very misguided. Who knows how God judged him, it is beyond us.

Admittedly, I am not so knowledgeable about Hitler’s early life, but what “noble intentions” did he have?

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

Admittedly, I am not so knowledgeable about Hitler’s early life, but what “noble intentions” did he have?

I’m curious as well

 

[Blood_Angel]

Admittedly, I am not so knowledgeable about Hitler’s early life, but what “noble intentions” did he have?

Well Germany got screwed over by the treaty of Versailles right, then the Polish got some Germany land, the bit between Prussia I think, and the Germans there were persecuted, as with the Germans in France, despite WW1 being over.
Another noble intent would be to stop the spread of communism in Germany.

I genuinely believe he wanted to help the German people and his fellow countrymen. He cared more for his people than Stalin did whom only cared about himself, Hitler didn’t burn down churches or anything and I believe wanted to promote conservative Christian values in Germany.

I’m not saying he wasn’t in the wrong on many things, but those early days of Nazi Germany didn’t seem too bad.

 

[Della]

Obviously no one here can know the answer to that, but I have heard people in the past remark that they will be disappointed if they reach heaven and find murderers, rapists, etc alongside them, its almost like they take some joy in thinking people like Hitler or people who do terrible things to others, are suffering in hell, getting their come up ins so to speak.

Of course, I could not imagine being a Jewish person that was killed in the gas chambers, getting to heaven and finding the man that ordered it to be done, living in the mansion next door down…although, I will say I doubt this human type logic applies in the afterlife.

The people who can’t imagine being in heaven with criminals ought to read C. S. Lewis’ “The Great Divorce,” which is not about marital divorce. It’s a fantasy about deceased people given the chance to enter a kind of purgatory (really it’s like a weigh station where they meet others who have passed away before them, and the conversations they have with each other–a very Lewisian idea since his life was dedicated to the thrust and cut of debate).

Anyway, in the book, one man is incensed to meet another man who had committed murder coming to meet him to try to help give up his pride and accept God’s mercy, so he can enter heaven. It’s a lovely bit of reasoning concerning God’s mercy and who needs it most–the murderer or the person who bullied his wife and children and treated those under his authority with contempt and harshness. Lewis brilliantly gets the reader to point his finger back at himself, instead of doing God’s “job” of judging souls.

As to Hitler’s eternal destination, as another member cited, we don’t know, and the Church hasn’t said because she doesn’t have the authority to name those in hell, only those she knows to be in heaven, which she vetted through the process of canonization.

 

[OneSheep]

Admittedly, I am not so knowledgeable about Hitler’s early life, but what “noble intentions” did he have?

Good Morning, meltzerboy

“Noble intentions” have to take into account mindset and awareness in a very objective way. He wanted a “better” world, and he saw particular groups as blocking the way, as obstructions.

It is resentment that warps the mind in this way. We are all subject to this. His intent was good, but his mind was severely altered by resentment. Resentment blocks empathy, and alters the way that we look at people, it creates negative images.

As Christians, we are called to look what happened to Christ and pay close attention to His words on from the cross. He looked upon those who sought His death and said, “forgive them, for they know not what they do.” Probably one of the most important modern examples of such forgiveness of enemies is Eva Kor. She did not condone what the Nazis did, but she forgave them.

It behooves Christianity to pay attention to these two Jewish people who forgave in a way that sets example for all of us. It is a means of bringing worldwide reconciliation.

 

[meltzerboy]

Good Morning, meltzerboy

“Noble intentions” have to take into account mindset and awareness in a very objective way. He wanted a “better” world, and he saw particular groups as blocking the way, as obstructions.

It is resentment that warps the mind in this way. We are all subject to this. His intent was good, but his mind was severely altered by resentment. Resentment blocks empathy, and alters the way that we look at people, it creates negative images.

As Christians, we are called to look what happened to Christ and pay close attention to His words on from the cross. He looked upon those who sought His death and said, “forgive them, for they know not what they do.” Probably one of the most important modern examples of such forgiveness of enemies is Eva Kor. She did not condone what the Nazis did, but she forgave them.

It behooves Christianity to pay attention to these two Jewish people who forgave in a way that sets example for all of us. It is a means of bringing worldwide reconciliation.

With regard to whether or not Hitler is in hell, I have stated that none of us has any way of knowing, nor should we take it upon ourselves to speculate. But concerning forgiveness, it is Jewish belief that we, the living, have no moral right to forgive another (particularly a murderer) who has taken a human life, since this act usurps the intrinsic right of forgiveness that belongs only to those who were victims of a man such as Hitler. That is, the living may forgive injury done to them; however, they may NOT forgive injury done to those who have been murdered.

 

[Bookcat]

We do not know who is in hell or not in hell. Period.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

That is not for us to know. That’s knowledge only God has. It is quite possible that in the very last second of his life, as the cyanide was killing him and the bullet was penetrating his brain, that he could have had a moment of perfect contrition and asked God forgiveness for his manifold grave sins for having offended him so deeply.

Very possible. It’s also possible that Hitler had some mental illness that undermined his will, and made him less culpable for his sins. Who knows? As everyone has said, it’s not for us to know.

 

[OneSheep]

With regard to whether or not Hitler is in hell, I have stated that none of us has any way of knowing, nor should we take it upon ourselves to speculate.

Yes, avoidance of such speculation is charitable if the speculation involves judging another. On the other hand, it is truly worthwhile to speculate as to how we can forgive a person we hold something against, how we can forgive a person one resents, and how God does the same. As Jesus invited us to do and Eva Kor experienced, it gives us life to forgive rather than to hold onto a grudge. It is an invitation to holiness, to a spiritual peace.

But concerning forgiveness, it is Jewish belief that we, the living, have no moral right to forgive another (particularly a murderer) who has taken a human life, since this act usurps the intrinsic right of forgiveness that belongs only to those who were victims of a man such as Hitler.

Well, Jesus was Jewish, and he presented no moral restrictions on forgiveness. He invited us to a holiness that is inclusive of all people. His criteria for forgiveness was “If you hold anything against anyone, forgive them”. Jesus was a man in a land occupied by an oppressive power, and his call had intrapersonal as well as social objectives in mind. His call to forgive enemies was very unpopular. But can you imagine, for example, the good that would result if the people of IS were willing to forgive the westerners and “infidels” they loathe?

Meltzerboy, anyone who loves and cares for the victims of the Holocaust is also a victim. Who suffered more, Jesus, or Mary? Yet we Christians can be certain that Mary, also a Jew of course, forgave those who killed her son. It is essential for anyone who wishes to be free of the slavery of resentment to forgive anyone they feel negatively toward.

That is, the living may forgive injury done to them; however, they may NOT forgive injury done to those who have been murdered.

Well, you have a good point there. I cannot forgive Hitler on behalf of the people whose lives he destroyed or anyone else, I can only forgive him for the injury he has done to me personally, for the harm done to people I cared about very much. I am not talking about acquittal, I am talking about forgiveness from the heart.

I think it is traced to A.A. this observation: “Holding a grudge is like taking poison and expecting the other person to die.”

 

[OneSheep]

To add to my last post, there is some merit to holding a grudge, and we should never forgive until we are ready to do so.

The merit of holding a grudge is the incorporation of behavioral mores into our conscience. Resentment sets up images in our mind that help remind us never to behave the way of the person we resent. My observation: resentment plays a part in conscience formation. However, once we have incorporated the rule (I.e. don’t be like that guy), the resentment becomes superfluous and is harmful.

So, if one has resented Hitler, good! That means you have seen that he destroyed people of infinite value, that his actions are to be forever condemned, and we are not to repeat them. But there comes a time to forgive, a time to realize that resentment takes away from our freedom to love. And a great thing: when we forgive, the resentment goes away, but our conscience remains unscathed.

 

[RPRPsych]

Admittedly, I am not so knowledgeable about Hitler’s early life, but what “noble intentions” did he have?

I don’t think we’d like to hear the answer to that. This is silly season on CAF as far as political ideology and views are concerned.

Continuing on Ormond’s post, John Bowlby, in volume 2 of “Attachment and Loss”, speculates that Hitler’s irrational anger and hatred of Jews may stem from the fact that he (rightly or wrongly) blamed a Jewish doctor for his mother’s death, leading to his displacing his anger over her loss onto him, and eventually onto the Jewish people in general. If so, he might just have a plea of diminished responsibility, but that’s up to God to judge.

 

[office]

Continuing on Ormond’s post, John Bowlby, in volume 2 of “Attachment and Loss”, speculates that Hitler’s irrational anger and hatred of Jews may stem from the fact that he (rightly or wrongly) blamed a Jewish doctor for his mother’s death, leading to his displacing his anger over her loss onto him, and eventually onto the Jewish people in general.

In one of the Alice Miller books (can’t remember which one), it says that Hitler’s father used to beat him, and was rumored to be 1/4 Jewish. Hence his anger at Jews in general by displacement.

 

[RPRPsych]

In one of the Alice Miller books (can’t remember which one), it says that Hitler’s father used to beat him, and was rumored to be 1/4 Jewish. Hence his anger at Jews in general by displacement.

Yes, I’ve heard that one too. Hitler’s father was an illegitimate child (at a time when such things were considered to be a great shame and could mark a person for life), so I think it’s fair to say that that family had “issues” going a long way back.