Is Homophobia a sin?

[Scottgun]

How does my post in any way imply that I hate anybody?

I just realized that I forgot an important aspect of so-called homophobia: it’s not really about fearing homosexuals. Rather, it is the ad hominem argumentation that anyone against homosexual acts is probably a closeted homosexual and hates himself for his homosexual feelings and lashes out inappropriately. This is the monkey brain twaddle I spoke of. The term is just WAY too convenient for mischievous purposes. One minute it means every immoral and criminal act ever directed at a homosexual. The next minute it’s all this psychosexual stuff.

 

[friardchips]

I just realized that I forgot an important aspect of so-called homophobia: it’s not really about fearing homosexuals. Rather, it is the ad hominem argumentation that anyone against homosexual acts is probably a closeted homosexual and hates himself for his homosexual feelings and lashes out inappropriately. This is the monkey brain twaddle I spoke of. The term is just WAY too convenient for mischievous purposes. One minute it means every immoral and criminal act ever directed at a homosexual. The next minute it’s all this psychosexual stuff.

I wasn’t using monkey brain twaddle though to suggest the poster has psychosexual issues. I was pointing out his grammar, 'tis all.

 

[Scottgun]

I wasn’t using monkey brain twaddle though to suggest the poster has psychosexual issues. I was pointing out his grammar, 'tis all.

Ok. I’m just throwing out musings at random at this point.

 

[friardchips]

Ok. I’m just throwing out musings at random at this point.

In all honesty, I was finding it amusing

 

[Lion_IRC]

I sought out professional reparative therapy to help me with my feelings about homosexuality but they told me that it’s not possible to change who you really are and that I was “born that way”.

 

[Scottgun]

In all honesty, I was finding it amusing

OK, I’ll keep going…

The whole doth-protest-too-much “you must be a self-loathing closeted homosexual!” is ubiquitous throughout films and sitcoms. I seem to recall it in the re-make of The Longest Yard and there is a whole Seinfeld episode dedicated to it. But before someone says, “Well, that’s just media.” I would point out that the homophobia thing has been used as a tactic to silence dissenters. The Episcopal Church is one. Back when they doing their suicide attempt by ordaining homosexuals, a number of Episcopal priests and churches protested. Well the regime didn’t cotton to such back-sassing of their command to dive into the abyss, so they threatened them and saying essentially, “We know who the gay priests are, if you don’t shut up, we’ll out you.” The homophobia narrative was so deeply believed that they thought that priests outspoken against homosexuality would be scared and would go silent. They didn’t. They stuck to their guns. Now if there is one thing Political Correctinistas hate more than anything, it’s seeing their cherished narratives go down in flames. So what has happened is that the traditional Episcopalians split town and united with African synods and the Lefty Moonbats have been chasing them with petty and vindictive lawsuits ever since.

I remember that there was a Catholic version as well a few years back. There was a website where one could out their homosexual priest. The idea again was either that the homophobia will silence priests, or that we would see that priesthood is so choc-O-full of homosexuals that we can finally just laugh about it and get down to the business of changing Church teaching.

I haven’t heard any news of this site for awhile.

 

[friardchips]

I sought out professional reparative therapy to help me with my feelings about homosexuality but they told me that it’s not possible to change who you really are and that I was “born that way”.

If you are a Catholic then presumably you went to a Catholic organisation not secular otherwise what do you expect. I’m not commenting, because this is personal to you, other than to say that each person has his or her own cross, and while I may not share the same individual cross as you concerning this particular subject, at the same time, those with no opinions should get opinions and seek to have kindness on the tip of their tongues to each person with this cross, as I imagine it is a particularly awkward one for those with Catholic faith. To you, person to person: God allows us the crosses we have the potential to be able to carry. Wishing you the best in your journey and passage to Heaven.

 

[friardchips]

OK, I’ll keep going…

The whole doth-protest-too-much “you must be a self-loathing closeted homosexual!” is ubiquitous throughout films and sitcoms. I seem to recall it in the re-make of The Longest Yard and there is a whole Seinfeld episode dedicated to it. But before someone says, “Well, that’s just media.” I would point out that the homophobia thing has been used as a tactic to silence dissenters. The Episcopal Church is one. Back when they doing their suicide attempt by ordaining homosexuals, a number of Episcopal priests and churches protested. Well the regime didn’t cotton to such back-sassing of their command to dive into the abyss, so they threatened them and saying essentially, “We know who the gay priests are, if you don’t shut up, we’ll out you.” The homophobia narrative was so deeply believed that they thought that priests outspoken against homosexuality would be scared and would go silent. They didn’t. They stuck to their guns. Now if there is one thing Political Correctinistas hate more than anything, it’s seeing their cherished narratives go down in flames. So what has happened is that the traditional Episcopalians split town and united with African synods and the Lefty Moonbats have been chasing them with petty and vindictive lawsuits ever since.

I remember that there was a Catholic version as well a few years back. There was a website where one could out their homosexual priest. The idea again was either that the homophobia will silence priests, or that we would see that priesthood is so choc-O-full of homosexuals that we can finally just laugh about it and get down to the business of changing Church teaching.

I haven’t heard any news of this site for awhile.

‘Lefty Moonbats’!

Because they twisted what is most likely a very sensitive issue with reverse psychology and therefore used the subject of gay people to get what they wanted. End does not justify the means so reverse homophobia, in a way, because it does not in the end show respect for the people during the process of change who these intolerants are apparently fighting for. Gay people should not be in favour of the very people who try to fight their cause.

 

[BlueElf]

The Dean of Washington’s National Cathedral, Rev. Gary Hall, came out in no uncertain terms this weekend to denounce LGTB discrimination in his Sunday sermon.

“We must now have the courage to take the final step and call homophobia and heterosexism what they are. They are sin. Homophobia is a sin.Heterosexism is a sin. Shaming people for whom they love is a sin,” said Dean Hall. He continued, “Only when all our churches say that clearly and boldly and courageously will our LGBT youth be free to grow up in a culture that totally embraces them fully as they are.”

He criticized the role that some churches have in advancing oppression of LGTB youth, saying, “It’s more than tragic—in fact it’s shameful–that faith communities, especially Christian ones, continue to be complicit in putting our children at risk and abetting the attitudes that oppress them, thereby encouraging the aggressors who would subject our children to pain, humiliation, and violence.”

 

[edwest2]

Before we begin I must emphasize this thread is not about the Church’s teaching on marriage or the immorality of homosexual acts. The Church has been abundantly clear about it’s teaching concerning these subjects. I know them, I accept them and agree with them.

My questions rather is hatred of homosexuals, like what is practiced and preached by the late Fred Phelps and Uganda’s Yoweri Museveni, sinful? In other words advocating ill treatment and discrimination, even criminal prosecution of homosexuals? After all it’s one thing to not condone or feel comfortable about the act itself but advocating violence and intolerance against an entire category of people seems unchristian and immoral to me-especially when the Church teaches that it is the homosexual act, not homosexuality in itself, that is sinful (please correct me if my interpretation of Church teaching is mistaken) and it is accepted that homosexual orientation is not a choice.

First, a phobia is defined as an irrational fear. I’ve never had a fear of homosexual persons.

As far as homosexual orientation, here is a part of a Catholic Answers tract:

“I Was Born This Way”

"Many homosexuals argue that they have not chosen their condition, but that they were born that way, making homosexual behavior natural for them.

"But because something was not chosen does not mean it was inborn. Some desires are acquired or strengthened by habituation and conditioning instead of by conscious choice. For example, no one chooses to be an alcoholic, but one can become habituated to alcohol. Just as one can acquire alcoholic desires (by repeatedly becoming intoxicated) without consciously choosing them, so one may acquire homosexual desires (by engaging in homosexual fantasies or behavior) without consciously choosing them.

"Since sexual desire is subject to a high degree of cognitive conditioning in humans (there is no biological reason why we find certain scents, forms of dress, or forms of underwear sexually stimulating), it would be most unusual if homosexual desires were not subject to a similar degree of cognitive conditioning.

"Even if there is a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality (and studies on this point are inconclusive), the behavior remains unnatural because homosexuality is still not part of the natural design of humanity. It does not make homosexual behavior acceptable; other behaviors are not rendered acceptable simply because there may be a genetic predisposition toward them.

“For example, scientific studies suggest some people are born with a hereditary disposition to alcoholism, but no one would argue someone ought to fulfill these inborn urges by becoming an alcoholic. Alcoholism is not an acceptable “lifestyle” any more than homosexuality is.”

---

Hatred toward anyone is unChristian, as well as ill-treatment.

Hope this helps,
Ed

 

[freeRadical]

Then I was right in thinking you didn’t mean to. But if you read your post again you’ll see you accidently made connections between dislike or hatred of a set of people and your reply to people who don’t like your reaction to the subject. It reads as such although I could tell the way you wrote it didn’t exactly read how you meant it to! We live in intolerant times and can get in trouble for saying this or this that we didn’t actually mean to put in such and such a way

In other words, I can read it how you mean it, but also how it could be read, by intolerant members of society who take things the wrong way.

I don’t see that in any of my post. I do not see where I “accidently made connections between dislike or hatred of a set of people and your reply to people who don’t like your reaction to the subject”. Please point these connections out to me. Nowhere did I imply that I dislike or hate homosexuals. Sounds like mental gymnastics to me, and I don’t have time for that. I wrote it exactly like I meant it to read.

As for intolerant members of society who take things the wrong way, I don’t give a fig what they think.

 

[friardchips]

The Dean of Washington’s National Cathedral, Rev. Gary Hall, came out in no uncertain terms this weekend to denounce LGTB discrimination in his Sunday sermon.

“We must now have the courage to take the final step and call homophobia and heterosexism what they are. They are sin. Homophobia is a sin.Heterosexism is a sin. Shaming people for whom they love is a sin,” said Dean Hall. He continued, “Only when all our churches say that clearly and boldly and courageously will our LGBT youth be free to grow up in a culture that totally embraces them fully as they are.”

He criticized the role that some churches have in advancing oppression of LGTB youth, saying, “It’s more than tragic—in fact it’s shameful–that faith communities, especially Christian ones, continue to be complicit in putting our children at risk and abetting the attitudes that oppress them, thereby encouraging the aggressors who would subject our children to pain, humiliation, and violence.”

Not clear what your view is?

 

[friardchips]

I still don’t understand why we used the term homophobia to describe dislike or hatred of homosexuals. Homophobia means “fear of homosexuals”.

When people tell me that I am homophobic I simply reply, “No, I’m not scared of homosexuals.”

Okay, to dissect, my mind read it like this, at first glance:

1. Why do we use homophobia to describe disliking/hating homosexuals.
2. Homophobia means fear of homosexuals.
3. I just say I’m not in fear of homosexuals as a response to a question we don’t know what was.
4. Leaving one alternative you have stated at the start of your post - disliking/hating homosexuals.

As I said, I guessed you meant it differently, but this is how my mind read it. If my mind read it like this, others might, might not. If you don’t care a ‘fig’ then it doesn’t matter. I pointed it out because I try to be exact although I admit I haven’t explained to you very well. Sorry about that, but from lack of detail your post could have been read an alternative way, to how you meant it to be.

 

[freeRadical]

Okay, to dissect, my mind read it like this, at first glance:

1. Why do we use homophobia to describe disliking/hating homosexuals.
2. Homophobia means fear of homosexuals.
3. I just say I’m not in fear of homosexuals as a response to a question we don’t know what was.
4. Leaving one alternative you have stated at the start of your post - disliking/hating homosexuals.

As I said, I guessed you meant it differently, but this is how my mind read it. If my mind read it like this, others might, might not. If you don’t care a ‘fig’ then it doesn’t matter. I pointed it out because I try to be exact although I admit I haven’t explained to you very well. Sorry about that, but from lack of detail your post could have been read an alternative way, to how you meant it to be written.

I think your reading comprehension is lacking.

The question wasn’t unknown, it wasn’t a question at all. I clearly said “when someone says I am homophobic”

 

[friardchips]

I think your reading comprehension is lacking.

The question wasn’t unknown, it wasn’t a question at all. I clearly said “when someone says I am homophobic”

If someone says to you that you are a homophobe then this is a response to you for you having said something - a statement or a question. I used the word ‘question’ to abbreviate and suggest that you must have been called this as a response. So, with respect, it is not my response to your post that is lacking comprehension, but actually it is your post that is lacking in detail and so can be read two ways. And yes, because of the subject or tone of the thread, in my mind, I read it the other way so okay, could be a lack of reading comprehension, in that instance. But then, that is what I am saying. Your post could easily be misconstrued.

 

[freeRadical]

If someone says to you that you are a homophobe then this is a response to you for you having said something - a statement or a question. I used the word ‘question’ to abbreviate and suggest that you must have been called this as a response. So, with respect, it is not my response to your post that is lacking comprehension, but actually it is your post that is lacking in detail and so can be read two ways.

It cannot be read two ways, except when people try to shoehorn their own interpretation into it.

Unless I said, “I hate homosexuals”. I don’t get how you can get, from my post, that I dislike or hate homosexuals.

 

[friardchips]

It cannot be read two ways, except when people try to shoehorn their own interpretation into it.

Unless I said, “I hate homosexuals”. I don’t get how you can get, from my post, that I dislike or hate homosexuals.

I didn’t surmise that you hated… I suggested that your post could be read like that. If you can’t see it…, but I can…, yet you don’t care…, then we will go around in circles. I read it like that but read it the other way too. You can’t read it how I saw it one way but only the way you intended. It is what it is.

 

[nownzen]

First, a phobia is defined as an irrational fear. I’ve never had a fear of homosexual persons.

As far as homosexual orientation, here is a part of a Catholic Answers tract:

“I Was Born This Way”

"Many homosexuals argue that they have not chosen their condition, but that they were born that way, making homosexual behavior natural for them.

"But because something was not chosen does not mean it was inborn. Some desires are acquired or strengthened by habituation and conditioning instead of by conscious choice. For example, no one chooses to be an alcoholic, but one can become habituated to alcohol. Just as one can acquire alcoholic desires (by repeatedly becoming intoxicated) without consciously choosing them, so one may acquire homosexual desires (by engaging in homosexual fantasies or behavior) without consciously choosing them.

"Since sexual desire is subject to a high degree of cognitive conditioning in humans (there is no biological reason why we find certain scents, forms of dress, or forms of underwear sexually stimulating), it would be most unusual if homosexual desires were not subject to a similar degree of cognitive conditioning.

"Even if there is a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality (and studies on this point are inconclusive), the behavior remains unnatural because homosexuality is still not part of the natural design of humanity. It does not make homosexual behavior acceptable; other behaviors are not rendered acceptable simply because there may be a genetic predisposition toward them.

“For example, scientific studies suggest some people are born with a hereditary disposition to alcoholism, but no one would argue someone ought to fulfill these inborn urges by becoming an alcoholic. Alcoholism is not an acceptable “lifestyle” any more than homosexuality is.”

---

Hatred toward anyone is unChristian, as well as ill-treatment.

Hope this helps,
Ed

Ok ed, what happens to your faith, your view of God and your world-view if somehow it was proven irrefutably that one’s sexual orientation is determined before birth and that one had as much control over it as he had on the colour of his eyes and the number of fat cells he is born with?

 

[nownzen]

A ten-second Google search pulls up hundreds of instances of gays being set on fire, dragged behind cars for miles, beaten, hung, and murdered.

I really cannot understand why anyone would deny that homophobia exists or is “monkey grain twaddle.”

Nowadays “homophobia”, an improper term as i mentioned, is used to mean a lot of things. I’m against orphans being adopted by homosexuals, I’m against lesbian couples asking two of their homosexual friends to give them their sperm, mix them in a bottle and inject it in the woman’s vagina, so the father’s identity remains a mystery. If that makes me homophobic, I’m fine with that. I’m for homosexuals being treated with respect and dignity, and obviously, I condemn vigorously the atrocities that you refer to. I had a gay classmate in high school, everybody sort of knew, he never talked about his stuff and I never talked about mine. I had nothing but respect for him. Hell, he helped to make me come out of my shell and become less introverted and weird by helping me land my first real job.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

In psychology, a “phobia” is an inordinate fear of something, to the extent that it interferes with day to day life.

Thus, very few people actually suffer from “homophobia.” If someone does fear homosexual behavior, it is no more a sin than claustrophobia is.

Don’t worry about it.