Is Homosexuality Genetic?

[Neolithic]

You said it’s 100% genetic when there are clear, but rare, violations of that. How can it be 100% genetic, when it’s not? Intersexism can also be caused by endocrine failure AFTER conception, it is not caused by genetics. Any number of outside influences can cause intersexism besides genetics. Some drugs can cause it to happen to male or female fetuses for example. My chromosome oddities may be attributed to a drug my mother was taking, if she had not been taking it, I may have ended up a more normal boy or girl.

Because the variations are also genetic. They occur at the genetic level, which means that sex is always genetic. I have said three times now that any abnormalities there might be are ALSO genetic, and they are.

AIS, for example, occurs when the body cannot use the male hormones known as androgens, so the genes are that of a male but the person looks and is most commonly raised as a female. I treated a patient with this disorder before. It is caused by mutations in the dihydrotestosterone receptor, or, AR gene.

You mention intersexuality and claim that it’s caused by a problem in the endocrine system, and you would be correct. However, more specifically and most commonly, it is caused by a GENETIC disorder known as congenital adrenal hyperplasia.

Outside sources such as drugs cause genetic mutations.

The bottom line is that sex is genetically determined and any abnormalities are also linked to genetics.

 

[pathia]

Outside sources such as drugs cause genetic mutations.

The bottom line is that sex is genetically determined and any abnormalities are also linked to genetics.

I think the issue at hand is you use gender and sex as equivalents, I separate the two. Sex as the genetic aspect, gender as presentation and self identification.

 

[Neolithic]

I think the issue at hand is you use gender and sex as equivalents, I separate the two. Sex as the genetic aspect, gender as presentation and self identification.

I’m talking biologically. If you want to get into things like gender roles and so on, then fine. My point is that biologically, gender is determined by genetics. It’s certainly not black and white like some people would have you believe; AIS, I think, is evidence of this.

The greater point I’m making is that it’s something that cannot be changed. Not even developed gender roles, in my view, can be changed. I don’t think homosexuality can be changed.

 

[fix]

Sure it is based on scientific evidence, but…

So homosexuality is a brain thing…I was born with a chemical imbalance in my brain. I have ADHD and I had to take responsibility to fix me so I could function in society as I wanted to… After lots of meds, therapy and behavior modification I finally got to where I was able to become the person I wanted to be, functional and positively proactive in my community. But it was my choice. I could either rock the ADHD, get Disability from the government or concentrate all my efforts on fighting that chemical imbalance and make my life how I wanted it. How **I **wanted it.
I sort of think about homosexuality like my own brain stuff. If you want to change it, you can. It might require meds and therapy and behavior modification but you can do it. If not then fine. But if you’re a Catholic and want to rock that, then you certainly can do what I did to fight the ‘genetics’…therapy, meds and behavior modification.
This might be simplifying the issue but homosexuality is wrong because Mother Church says it is wrong. Enough said. You want to be in the club and receive salvation from Jesus Christ then you better follow along. It ain’t easy but it is a requirement. Nobody gets into Heaven for free without struggle and bearing crosses, no matter what the Protestants say. I’m a Catholic, I don’t need further debate on that subject. It’s wrong. Deal with it!
In Christ (lovingly, always),
Jen

Not sure of your point here? Science does not determine right and wrong. We live in a fallen world. Plenty of “pathology” can happen. We need to get the premise correct first meaning we must understand how man and woman were designed.

If we get that wrong then we will claim disordered inclinations are acceptable simply because they are found in nature. I am not saying every single item needs to be corrected, but I am saying acting on these inclinations is wrong and no amount of science can turn morally wrong into morally right.

 

[fix]

If same-sex attraction is genetic, then it would be something made by God. Why would God make someone with a handicap?

God has a permitting will and an ordaining will. All types of things, congenital or not, may happen. That these things occur does not lead to the conclusion God ordains it.

 

[jtindell]

My motto is simple: If it’s not hurting anyone, then let it be.

Really? *Really?*You’re kidding, right?

The greater point I’m making is that it’s something that cannot be changed. Not even developed gender roles, in my view, can be changed. I don’t think homosexuality can be changed.

It’s obvious you already know that homosexuality is genetic.You’ve already completely sidestepped the Catholic teaching/ Biblical aspect of this issue and continue to tell us over and over that is isn’t something that can be changed. If your so confident on your belief then why are you hellbent on converting us?
You stated in a previous post, “I love Jesus and Mary just as much as anybody”? Do you? Then why do you refuse to aknowledge Church teaching and continue to tell us over and over your professional opinion as a* psychologist*. A psychologist. Who isn’t a psychologist these days? Anyway, I think you’re paying us lipservice with your ‘I love Jesus and Mary’ bit. I know that’s a bold staement but I’ve read your posts and you seem to only name-drop once Our Lord and Savior. I believe you have an agenda by coming here. I’m sorry but I’m strong in my faith in Christ and Mother Church. Homosexuality is a sin.
Enough said.

 

[fix]

NO STUDY concluded or can ever conclude that it is a choice. So, I ask you respectfully to stop propagating all these lies to your children or in your Sunday schools. You will answer in front of God for this. Plus, why would anyone chose to face this kind of discrimination and to suffer like this.

I am going to quote this from the Vatican:

Here, the Church’s wise moral tradition is necessary since it warns against generalizations in judging individual cases. In fact, circumstances may exist, or may have existed in the past, which would reduce or remove the culpability of the individual in a given instance; or other circumstances may increase it. What is at all costs to be avoided is the unfounded and demeaning assumption that the sexual behaviour of homosexual persons is always and totally compulsive and therefore inculpable. What is essential is that the fundamental liberty which characterizes the human person and gives him his dignity be recognized as belonging to the homosexual person as well. As in every conversion from evil, the abandonment of homosexual activity will require a profound collaboration of the individual with God’s liberating grace.

It is a disservice to people, and the truth, to claim it is licit to act on such desires. I hope people will seek out a caring priest and ask for the protection of our Blessed Mother and not be hoodwinked by propaganda.

 

[goofyjim]

Really? *Really?*You’re kidding, right?

It’s obvious you already know that homosexuality is genetic.You’ve already completely sidestepped the Catholic teaching/ Biblical aspect of this issue and continue to tell us over and over that is isn’t something that can be changed. If your so confident on your belief then why are you hellbent on converting us?
You stated in a previous post, “I love Jesus and Mary just as much as anybody”? Do you? Then why do you refuse to aknowledge Church teaching and continue to tell us over and over your professional opinion as a* psychologist*. A psychologist. Who isn’t a psychologist these days? Anyway, I think you’re paying us lipservice with your ‘I love Jesus and Mary’ bit. I know that’s a bold staement but I’ve read your posts and you seem to only name-drop once Our Lord and Savior. I believe you have an agenda by coming here. I’m sorry but I’m strong in my faith in Christ and Mother Church. Homosexuality is a sin.
Enough said.

To clarify, the behavior is a sin. As an orientation it is not a sin.

 

[jtindell]

I just found out something interesting.
yngve, you’ve been a member for what, 2 days, and almost all of your nine posts are about homosexuality.
Oh, there’s a few about masturbation, too. But I wonder, what is your intent on this forum? Seems as though you have some sort of agenda and if that agenda just happens to be making Catholics question their faith and beliefs, then you aren’t needed or wanted here. We are here, for the most part, to strengthen and solidify our faith, not to challenged by someone with malicious intentions by non-Catholics or those who would despise Rome. (whos teachings are very clear on homosexuality, btw) Not sure which category you fit into but I’m sure it’s one.:tsktsk:
I encourage other members to check out **yngve’**s post history. Of course anyone is probably allowed to post no matter what their intent…but it doesn’t mean we can’t call them out. But let’s pray for them, too.
yngve, what do you think about all this? Am I wrong?

:knight2:

 

[buffalo]

I just found out something interesting.
yngve, you’ve been a member for what, 2 days, and almost all of your nine posts are about homosexuality.
Oh, there’s a few about masturbation, too. But I wonder, what is your intent on this forum? Seems as though you have some sort of agenda and if that agenda just happens to be making Catholics question their faith and beliefs, then you aren’t needed or wanted here. rolleyes:We are here, for the most part, to strengthen and solidify our faith, not to challenged by someone with malicious intentions by non-Catholics or those who would despise Rome. (whos teachings are very clear on homosexuality, btw) Not sure which category you fit into but I’m sure it’s one.:tsktsk:
I encourage other members to check out **yngve’**s post history. Of course anyone is probably allowed to post no matter what their intent…but it doesn’t mean we can’t call them out.

:knight2:

I think somebody called in for some help. I have seen more atheists and gay defenders in here lately.

That’s OK. Let them test their arguments here. We are more than up to the task. In the process a few may just come away with a better understanding of Catholicism. You know we are all intolerant hate mongers.

You can see just how much work has to be done.

 

[fix]

I think somebody called in for some help. I have seen more atheists and gay defenders in here lately.

Yes.

 

[jtindell]

To clarify, the behavior is a sin. As an orientation it is not a sin.

Absolutely, hate the sin, not the sinner. That’s why I’m saying that behavior modification is possible. I have fought my own demons (genetic or otherwise chemical imabalance) and I am here to tell everyone,* it can be done*. You can go against your nature. It takes help, prayer and a pure intention. But it can be done.

 

[yngve]

Absolutely, hate the sin, not the sinner. That’s why I’m saying that behavior modification is possible. I have fought my own demons (genetic or otherwise chemical imabalance) and I am here to tell everyone, it can be done. You can go against your nature. It takes help, prayer and a pure intention. But it can be done.

Sorry for not replying. I am in the middle of an exam, but I was taking a break and saw your message, I had to reply.

Please, listen. It cannot be done. Please, for the sake of your mental health, don’t try to follow therapy in order to change from homosexual to heterosexual. You don’t know what you’re exposing to. No psychologist in his right mind can recommend this. And those psychologists who are giving this kind of therapy don’t have their superior community’s approval.
Please consider this. Better remain chaste, with the tendencies.

 

[yngve]

I just found out something interesting.
yngve, you’ve been a member for what, 2 days, and almost all of your nine posts are about homosexuality.
Oh, there’s a few about masturbation, too. But I wonder, what is your intent on this forum? Seems as though you have some sort of agenda and if that agenda just happens to be making Catholics question their faith and beliefs, then you aren’t needed or wanted here. We are here, for the most part, to strengthen and solidify our faith, not to challenged by someone with malicious intentions by non-Catholics or those who would despise Rome. (whos teachings are very clear on homosexuality, btw) Not sure which category you fit into but I’m sure it’s one.
I encourage other members to check out yngve’s post history. Of course anyone is probably allowed to post no matter what their intent…but it doesn’t mean we can’t call them out. But let’s pray for them, too.
yngve, what do you think about all this? Am I wrong?

Don’t think I have some sort of agenda. I’ve posted in this forum before, under a different name. Thanks brother for not welcoming me here, but I don’t intend to make people question their beliefs. I am sure that if you question something, ultimately you have 2 choices: to reinforce your beliefs or to change them if you come to the conclusion that they were wrong. Where’s the harm?

I am disappointed that you follow my posts in order to accuse me of something while I was just trying to bring a scientific perspective on the issue and in consequence to ask you to get informed and not to start pointing fingers.

If you feel cozy in your beliefs and don’t want anyone questioning them, then fine. This is how heresies came up, and that’s why we have thousands of churches pretending to be the true and only veritable followers of Christ. I’ve always thought that the Catholic church was different, and this is why it has the most rational point of view on homosexuality. But the church is made of people who prefer no to question anything and remain cozy.
If you find out that your child is gay and make him leave or torture him emotionally until you lose him forever, maybe then you will realize you were wrong.
God bless

 

[Neolithic]

Really? *Really?*You’re kidding, right?

It’s obvious you already know that homosexuality is genetic.You’ve already completely sidestepped the Catholic teaching/ Biblical aspect of this issue and continue to tell us over and over that is isn’t something that can be changed. If your so confident on your belief then why are you hellbent on converting us?

I’m not trying to convert you. Frankly, I don’t care if you like gays, accept gays, or what have you. If you want to be a bigot and push your belief on others, fine.

The Catholic Church is expected to be against homosexuality, but they don’t push hate and intolerance like some of the forum members.

And the rest of your post isn’t important enough to respond to.

 

[estesbob]

I’m not trying to convert you. Frankly, I don’t care if you like gays, accept gays, or what have you. If you want to be a bigot and push your belief on others, fine.

The Catholic Church is expected to be against homosexuality, but they don’t push hate and intolerance like some of the forum members.

And the rest of your post isn’t important enough to respond to.

Can you direct us to the posts where forum members have pushed hate and intolerance towards homosexuals?

 

[jtindell]

I’m not trying to convert you. Frankly, I don’t care if you like gays, accept gays, or what have you. If you want to be a bigot and push your belief on others, fine.
The Catholic Church is expected to be against homosexuality, but they don’t push hate and intolerance like some of the forum members.
And the rest of your post isn’t important enough to respond to.

Wow, I really got caught up but I’m happy if we can dialogue about this.
I appreciate your response because you’ve helped me consider how I really feel and not what the Church and my clergy has taught me.
There’s an excellent TV movie on Lifetime called “Prayers for Bobby” , a film based on the 1995 book, that addresses this issue straight on. It features Sigourney Weaver as Mary Griffith, who’s son paid the ultimate price for the insensitivity, and refusal to accept her sons homosexuality based on her religious beliefs. The story goes-Mom is ‘ultra-religious’ and chastises her son when he comes out. He ends up committing suicide. It’s really an amazing story of how we deal with these things and how we should really be Christ-like and act with compassion in our reactions. Mary Griffith has now become a gay rights activist because she saw what really happens when we try to force our beliefs on someone else.
I admit was I very bold and not acting with compassion in my previous posts. Please forgive me, honestly, since I was judgmental and abrupt.
Why the about face? Because you reminded me of the GLBT’s I know and what incredible people they are. Hey, it’s between them and God and if they feel that they can live happily and abundantly with their lives, which they did not chose, then I will support them in the struggle for freedom and rights and not follow party lines. All I think Christ would want me to be is compassionate and supportive, no matter my personal religious beliefs.
Facts are facts.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a very dear friend who was gay. I remember him saying, “Of course it’s not a choice…who would ever chose to experience such intolerance and hatred because of who they love.”
Thanks for the wake-up and reminder. I’m dedicating this post to Kevin, Paul and gerry. I stood up, woke up and I won’t forget that we are all human-beings and deserve love. That’s being ‘Christ-like’.
Jen

 

[thewalrus]

Wow, I really got caught up but I’m happy if we can dialogue about this.
I appreciate your response because you’ve helped me consider how I really feel and not what the Church and my clergy has taught me.
There’s an excellent TV movie on Lifetime called “Prayers for Bobby” , a film based on the 1995 book, that addresses this issue straight on. It features Sigourney Weaver as Mary Griffith, who’s son paid the ultimate price for the insensitivity, and refusal to accept her sons homosexuality based on her religious beliefs. The story goes-Mom is ‘ultra-religious’ and chastises her son when he comes out. He ends up committing suicide. It’s really an amazing story of how we deal with these things and how we should really be Christ-like and act with compassion in our reactions. Mary Griffith has now become a gay rights activist because she saw what really happens when we try to force our beliefs on someone else.
I admit was I very bold and not acting with compassion in my previous posts. Please forgive me, honestly, since I was judgmental and abrupt.
Why the about face? Because you reminded me of the GLBT’s I know and what incredible people they are. Hey, it’s between them and God and if they feel that they can live happily and abundantly with their lives, which they did not chose, then I will support them in the struggle for freedom and rights and not follow party lines. All I think Christ would want me to be is compassionate and supportive, no matter my personal religious beliefs.
Facts are facts.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a very dear friend who was gay. I remember him saying, “Of course it’s not a choice…who would ever chose to experience such intolerance and hatred because of who they love.”
Thanks for the wake-up and reminder. I’m dedicating this post to Kevin, Paul and gerry. I stood up, woke up and I won’t forget that we are all human-beings and deserve love. That’s being ‘Christ-like’.
Jen

This post just made my day. Thanks, Jen.

 

[Neolithic]

Can you direct us to the posts where forum members have pushed hate and intolerance towards homosexuals?

I certainly think insinuating they are mentally ill and that their lifestyle is dangerous to society, is hateful and intolerant. Read up a few pages and you’ll see a rather fierce debate I had with someone contending as much.

Most of the people on this forum, I will admit, have been much nicer and kinder in expressing their distaste for the lifestyle than I would have thought. But some, like I said, aren’t as kind, and spew untruths.

I reject the homosexual lifestyle, too. I don’t agree with it, but for religious reasons. I just don’t push my belief on others and I know the science and I share that science. The science says that being a homosexual is not a choice. The acts, of course, are.

 

[estesbob]

I certainly think insinuating they are mentally ill and that their lifestyle is dangerous to society, is hateful and intolerant. Read up a few pages and you’ll see a rather fierce debate I had with someone contending as much.

The church says that it is a disorderd lifestyle. I don’t think there is any dispute that their lifestyle is dangerous to themselves. The very few times I have seen somebody express hate or intolerance towards homosexuals I reported them to the moderators. It is my experience that generally what people call hate and intolerance is merely expressing the church teaching on the sinfulness and disorderedness of homosexual behavior

Most of the people on this forum, I will admit, have been much nicer and kinder in expressing their distaste for the lifestyle than I would have thought. But some, like I said, aren’t as kind, and spew untruths.

I reject the homosexual lifestyle, too. I don’t agree with it, but for religious reasons. I just don’t push my belief on others and I know the science and I share that science. The science says that being a homosexual is not a choice. The acts, of course, are.

The science idoes not say that homosexuality is not a choice. There is some evidence that same-sex attraction might have a genetic component however we are talking about homosexual behavior. Homosexual behavior is a choice 100% of the time(barring, of course, homosexual rape).

I think we have to keep in mind that we’re in a Catholic forum. I have run across threads where young people have come in here expressing confusion about their sexual orientation and have had posters jump in and tell them they should embrace the homosexual lifestyle,that there is nothing wrong with it. To me that was a far bigger problem than any alleged hate and intolerance