Is Homosexuality genetic?

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Valtiel:
Now this is absolutly not true, there is to this day no conclusive or any accredited researcht hat can show this
Twin studies, at least five of them that I know of show this quite clearly.
The vast majority of homosexuals have at least two or
three heteroerotic fantasies.
And virtually all heteros have homosexual fantasies at some point. Sexual orientation is a spectrum not an either/or.
Sexuality is a completly fluid concept that there is no sexuality that someone can be born with.
You are born with a component of it, but not all of it no.
So you cannot compare a gentic state of being to
a enviromentally produced behavior, it’s outrageous!
Go tell the American Psychological Association. And then go tell the American Psychiatic Association.
 
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Tlaloc:
Lisa takes a very negative view of me. She’d be one of those who sees conflict as automatically hostile. Hence when I argue with her she takes affront and it quickly becomes personal.
You are right, I think you are here mainly to stir up trouble. I do not take affront by your arguments because they are often without merit. But I get frustrated when you do not present logical answers, ignore the facts presented by others and simply repeat your ridiculous premise over and over.

Lisa N
 
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Valtiel:
Some ppl, like your self just make the claim that it is a natural variant, an assumption that requires the burden of proof on your part. Homosexuality has no known genetic component, so how you even come to that conclusion to make these sort of forceful assertions is really beyond me.
Have you ever read the twin studies on the subject? Because if you did you’d have a very good idea where such an assertion comes from.
You can say that, but you’d be lying like no ones business. How can God create something he condems and for that matter why would a God so perfect create such a vast problematic way of life: groups-beta.google.com/group/The-Truth-About-Homosexuality/browse_thread/thread/a2dcbeae8cf35166
Men claim He condemns it. Mostly the bible is mute on the subject. the few instances (such as leviticus) where it is mentioned are specifically in reference to pagan rituals and not about homosexuality in general (if you bother to read it in context).
It just makes no sense, would he actually so contradict himself in doing this, try inserting the word idolterer in there, see how well that would fly.
Idolatry is clearly forbidden by the ten commandments. Which commandments forbids homosexuality?
 
I just wanted to clarify. God does not condemn someone who struggles with attraction to the same sex. He condems them for giving in to it and acting on it. God did not create anyone who spasmadically engages in sodomy. It’s always a choice. Even if same-sex attraction was genetic (a result of original sin?) it wouldn’t make sodomy ok.
 
I’d have to go with the position that it is genetic most of the time. If not for a predisposition, why on earth would someone choose the lifestyle?

Still… having the predisposition doesn’t mean there’s no choice. We all have a predisposition to do things we know are wrong (like homosexual behaviour; and, behave as we should nonetheless (at least the majority of the time). No need to beat this idea to death (the thread has already accomplished this with vigor).

PS… Benjamin, I’m a big fan. Christianity is fully compatible with good philosophy. I’m also convinced that openess to considering rational arguments from open-minded opposition has made me a better catholic. Please continue to participate. 🙂
 
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gladtobe:
Many of us have been raised to believe a straight person somehow becomes a queer. But as I get older I really wonder. Could it be an abnormality in their genetic makeup? You can’t say they have a warped brain, because many gays are very intelligent. What do you think?
No, homosexuality is not genetic. So far no scientific evidence for a genetic component for the development of homosexuality in humans has been found.

As an example of a falacious experiement, please read:

1992 Twin Studies of Homosexuality

homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/timt/papers/twin_studies/

then scroll down and study: Specific Problems with the Twin Studies of Homosexuality

Where it was determined that:
  1. The findings of the twin studies cannot be applied to the greater non-twin human population as a whole.
  2. The findings of adoptive studies and sibling studies do not replicate nor confirm the findings of the twin studies genetic component for homosexuality.
  3. There is such a large difference between identical & fraternal twins, that the findings cannot be applied to both equally, i.e. the results are inconsistant.
  4. Identical twins develop a seperate environment from each other in the womb while each receiving the mother’s blood supply one from the other (i.e. one identical twin receives the blood first then passes it on to the other, forming totally different developmental patterns within the womb.).
"Considering the penultimate point, even monozygotic [identical] twins, sharing exactly the same genes, may display phenotypic differences due to their prenatal environment. Things become even more complicated, however, when one considers that not all of an individual’s genes are active at any point in his or her life."
  1. The twin studies have been determined to be rife with sampling errors and bias.
As it stands, it has been determined by the general scientific community that there is no evidence to the genetic component of homosexual occurence in humans.
 
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gladtobe:
Many of us have been raised to believe a straight person somehow becomes a queer. But as I get older I really wonder. Could it be an abnormality in their genetic makeup? You can’t say they have a warped brain, because many gays are very intelligent. What do you think?
Since psychopaths do very well in society, Lenin, Marx, Stalin, Mao, Trotsky, as just a few well known examples of psychopaths who have reached the top levels of their respected nations, it is also not unusual for homosexuals to possess average to above average intelligence.

Consider the biographies of these two above average intelligent homosexuals:

Jeffrey Dahmer: carpenoctem.tv/killers/dahmer.html

John Wayne Gacy: carpenoctem.tv/killers/gacy.html

you could also study the biography of another well known homosexual intellectual, Anthony Blunt, who was a blatant traitor (the KGB worked on his homosexuality to turn him not into a heterosexual, but against his country).

Wittegenstein was another well known conflicted homosexual intellectual who was very suicidal and possessed suicidal tendencies.

The homosexual can vary from the insipid cretin to the brilliant academic, but like Stalin, they are emotionally & psychologically flawed and tend to wait for their opportunities.
 
A person who is gay can choose not to act on their orientation but they can’t just choose to be straight.
Are you speaking from personal experience? You seem to claim an insight possessed by no heterosexual?
 
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Tlaloc:
I’ve corrected Kevin on his misunderstanding of this matter but he intends to continue repeating false claims. Look at this thread to see the corrections:
I’ve educated Tlolac to his error, but he constantly ignores countervailing evidence and is intolerant to other opinions.
 
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Tlaloc:
Have you ever read the twin studies on the subject? Because if you did you’d have a very good idea where such an assertion comes from.
Tlolac,

Have you read (and understood) Specific Problems with the Twin Studies of Homosexuality contained within the flawed and biased 1992 Twin Studies of Homosexuality?

If not, here is your opportunity:
homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/timt/papers/twin_studies/

I will explain it to you if your reading comprehension skills are not up to it. 😃
 
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Tlaloc:
It’s called reading.
Comic books don’t count. You need to read with understanding, not just look at the pictures.

This particular insight you offer appears to be deeper than one can develop from mere reading (even without pictures).
 
Kevin Walker:
Tlolac,

Have you read (and understood) Specific Problems with the Twin Studies of Homosexuality contained within the flawed and biased 1992 Twin Studies of Homosexuality?

If not, here is your opportunity:
homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/timt/papers/twin_studies/

I will explain it to you if your reading comprehension skills are not up to it. 😃
You already started one thread on this particuklar report (linked to above) and declined to defend it when I pointed out the greivous errors in your interpretation of it. But it’s way more convincing this time, really.
 
Kevin Walker:
Comic books don’t count. You need to read with understanding, not just look at the pictures.

This particular insight you offer appears to be deeper than one can develop from mere reading (even without pictures).
No, really, reading will do.

I am getting a bit worried about why you obviously want me to be gay though. I mean you already started one stalker thread about me the moderators had to close…
 
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Tlaloc:
You already started one thread on this particuklar report (linked to above) and declined to defend it when I pointed out the greivous errors in your interpretation of it. But it’s way more convincing this time, really.
I don’t know Tlolac, you’re grasping at straws again, I successfully defended each of my positions against your suppositions and invectives. You still don’t have a case for a genetic component to homosexual development in humans, and citing invalid and disproven studies doesn’t help your argument/polemics.
 
I am getting a bit worried about why you obviously want me to be gay though. I mean you already started one stalker thread about me the moderators had to close…
Well, denial is a strong symptom within homosexuals, at least according to the St. Luke’s psychiatric Institute in Silversprings Maryland which treated homosexuality found in Priests.
 
I’m gay. I submit myself to Church teaching and I’m celibate and pray daily for conversion of heart and mind. I don’t know if it is genetic or not (though it seems to run in my family…I have two cousins in two sep. lines, our grandmothers were sisters). I do know that I knew I was different long before I had a label to put on it. When I finally understood what I was, I begged God, for years, to make me straight. I mean I prayed for it long before I actually ever had a sexual experience, so that would be about 17 years. He didn’t and still doesn’t seem disposed to change me. Now, I simply try to offer my struggles up to God and to carry this cross I’ve been given. I wouldn’t go so far as to say He gave it to me, but I do believe that He expects me to carry it and that it is part of my personal Calvary. I’m glad I’m a Catholic, since the Church teaches that I can be perfected, too. I feel sorry for those who’ve bought into the “lifestyle.” I can tell you that it is ashes and sorrow and desperation. I would appreciate everyone’s prayers, but I also want to say that I’m hurt when people use terms like “queer” and “fag,” etc. Even if someone distinguishes between chaste homosexuals and “queers,” I still don’t think it’s right and it isn’t kind. No one is saved by being mocked and held up to ridicule. Thanks for letting me chime in.
 
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Altisimus:
I’m gay. I submit myself to Church teaching and I’m celibate and pray daily for conversion of heart and mind. I don’t know if it is genetic or not (though it seems to run in my family…I have two cousins in two sep. lines, our grandmothers were sisters). I do know that I knew I was different long before I had a label to put on it. When I finally understood what I was, I begged God, for years, to make me straight. I mean I prayed for it long before I actually ever had a sexual experience, so that would be about 17 years. He didn’t and still doesn’t seem disposed to change me. Now, I simply try to offer my struggles up to God and to carry this cross I’ve been given. I wouldn’t go so far as to say He gave it to me, but I do believe that He expects me to carry it and that it is part of my personal Calvary. I’m glad I’m a Catholic, since the Church teaches that I can be perfected, too. I feel sorry for those who’ve bought into the “lifestyle.” I can tell you that it is ashes and sorrow and desperation. I would appreciate everyone’s prayers, but I also want to say that I’m hurt when people use terms like “queer” and “fag,” etc. Even if someone distinguishes between chaste homosexuals and “queers,” I still don’t think it’s right and it isn’t kind. No one is saved by being mocked and held up to ridicule. Thanks for letting me chime in.
As far as I’m concerned homosexuals have every right to practice religion, attend Mass, glory in God, and do their thing in the privacy and sanctuary of their own home. But the admitance of a homosexual, chaste or not, into a position of authority and severe decision making, such as the Priesthood, cannot be condoned for very good psychological (and now proven, i.e., the scandal) reasons. No homosexual should be physically quarrantined or segregated in the greater society for any reason, and ‘Gay’ bars or hotels or restaraunts or nightclubs are no problem as long as laws are not broken. But prudence demands that their condition eliminates them from positions of sensitive strategic authority where clarity of thought and emotional stability are required.
 
I don’t know what the research indicates one way or another BUT it seems to me that there is a basic problem linking a genetic origin to a behavior that prevents (or at best merely limits) genes from being passed on.

Shrug

The day they explain human attraction will be the day that poetry dies
I think there is room in the world for the unexplained
 
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