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Kevin_Walker
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“There is more to heaven and earth, Horatio, than is dreamt of in thy philosophy.” Bill Shakes
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littleitaly
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Sorry to here that you are struggling with the truth. Be it known that you are not alone. I do hope that you some day soon realize that there is only one True Holy Spirit, creator of heaven and earth. If you believe in any of the writings in the Bible, I’m sure Jesus will be there with you to help guide you the rest of the way. God bless (just one) and peace to you homosexuality is by no means genetic. Some would go as far as to say it is a disease of the mind. Here is the reality of it in a nut shell. Satan has found a weakness in man and plays on it when the opportunity comes about. He uses us as individuals to put other people down for what ever reason, mostly because of their own insecurities, which in turn will make the other person that is weak in thoughts to feel useless in life therefore searching for a different way of life to live to hopefully fit in. This starts at a very young age as you should know if you have ever taken notice on how children will talk to each other. This is why from when a child is born, we are to teach them to act respectably to each other instead of degrading. God bless and peace to you all.
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catsrus
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In answer to the original question, no.
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Werner
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It is always amazing how people who have no glue about homosexuality at all are specialists in why somebody is homosexual, how homosexuals supposedly can change their orientation to homosexual, and in fact everything.
So where are all those “many people” who became heteros as somebody claimed here?
How comes there is nobody who became homosexual afetr being heterosexual before (there are many people who come out as homosexuals late, but they all say that they have been homosexual secretly right from the beginning)
Well, i am homosexual, have been it from the beginning, and if it would be possible to change it, i wouldn’t be it anymore as for 10 years i prayed to God to change it.
As He didn’t attempt to change it at all, i finally came to the conclusion that He must have a reason for having made me gay.
Werner
So where are all those “many people” who became heteros as somebody claimed here?
How comes there is nobody who became homosexual afetr being heterosexual before (there are many people who come out as homosexuals late, but they all say that they have been homosexual secretly right from the beginning)
Well, i am homosexual, have been it from the beginning, and if it would be possible to change it, i wouldn’t be it anymore as for 10 years i prayed to God to change it.
As He didn’t attempt to change it at all, i finally came to the conclusion that He must have a reason for having made me gay.
Werner
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TheGarg
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There is no concrete evidence for at all, but there are alot of hypothesis. here is a good article i though, that wasn’t bias for or against, i thought. Your scientific nature should appreciate it tlaloc.
narth.com/docs/istheregene.html
I firmly don’t believe anyone is born that way…it is a result of many factors, pshychological, environmental, emotional, but the least of all, biological. MHO…
In reality the whole “born Gay” thing is just an excuse latched onto by the Flaming community, to justify their shame and ease the guilt.
God bless them all, and you to tlaloc, even if i don’t act nice sometimes, I still love you neighbor, and i sincerely pray that one day you’ll just flip your faith switch…
you see, God can’t be proven or disproven, either theory is a matter of Faith…Peace
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TheGarg
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Werner, peace to you and i am sure there are testimonials out there for you to help you, for god certainly didn’t make you “gay”.
narth.com/index.html
couragerc.net/
We are all prone to sin, after all were are all human, so if you lust after men, and i lust after women, we are both sinning, the same sin, lust…
it is more important how we act upon it.
Some are afflicted with drink, some with lust, some with food[my personal disorder]. I had to have a 40000 dollar surgery to save myself from death, due to my disorder. I am not ashamed of my disorder, its my cross to bear, and now that I have Jesus on my side, I don’t have to bear it alone.
I pray for you and wish to express my christian love for you. I do not look down on you if your battling homosexuality, but i will not be supportive of anyone that choose to live and/or embrace it.
If my own son was to have this trouble, i would love him no less, but I would teach him it was wrong to act upon it, and help him battle it, teaching him never to give up. Like i said we all have our crosses to bear, and Jesus will help us bear them, all we have to do is surrender to him.
The same i would not support anyone who was eating themselves to death. They are endangering their life and more importantly their soul.
Peace of the Lord be with you bro.
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felra
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I would have you ask yourself what have you been doing for 10 years other than praying for God to transform your sexual orientation? From my reading of this phenomenon, to change one’s sexual orientation from primary homosexual to heterosexual orientation takes time, concerted effort aided by therapy, healthy relationship building with same gender adults of heterosexual orientation, obviously committing self to abstinence from homosexual activity, and most importantly the desire to change.
If you haven’t purposely and comprehensively sought out the aids and support to transform your sexual orientation/identity, then I believe that you are being premature in your conclusion. God does His part as you do your part. The grace will be there, just don’t be waiting for God to “zap” away your homosexual feelings or expect a “magical wand” therapy experience.
Click here for a read of numerous testimonies of those who have left the homosexual lifestyle: http://www.pfox.org/Testimonials.asp .
Click here for the web site Parents and Friends of Ex Gays
and Gays: http://www.pfox.org .
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Lisa_N
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Werner, I really don’t think it’s necessary to belittle the people on this board as “thinking they are experts.” Most of us can read and there is a plethora of information regarding the genesis and the progression of homosexual activity, and the possibility of its reversal as a way of life.
As Garg said, we all have our cross to bear. It probably seems nutty but I have a very hard time NOT succumbing to the incredible temptation I have to spend all day on CA! I can only imagine the difficulty in withstanding a temptation that is so strong as a sex drive.
But to claim God must have wanted you to engage in homosexual activity is second guessing God and I have a hard time accepting that any of us are worthy to do so. It is rationalizing an activity that God has certainly indicated is not within His intention for his creation. My alcholic father was not destined to be an alcoholic by God. That is utterly ridiculous. He made some poor choices in life, paid for those choices and when he died he was clean and sober. He blamed no one for his alcoholism but himself, not God, not his parents, not society. We are weak humans and indeed something that seems briefly pleasurable can overcome all of our good intentions. Why do you think people are addicts? It’s totally irrational. They ingest a poison into their body for a flash of artificial ecstasy and then suffer the consequences. No difference IMO with homosexual activity. It’s an addiction just like smoking, alcohol, or drugs.
Lisa N
As Garg said, we all have our cross to bear. It probably seems nutty but I have a very hard time NOT succumbing to the incredible temptation I have to spend all day on CA! I can only imagine the difficulty in withstanding a temptation that is so strong as a sex drive.
But to claim God must have wanted you to engage in homosexual activity is second guessing God and I have a hard time accepting that any of us are worthy to do so. It is rationalizing an activity that God has certainly indicated is not within His intention for his creation. My alcholic father was not destined to be an alcoholic by God. That is utterly ridiculous. He made some poor choices in life, paid for those choices and when he died he was clean and sober. He blamed no one for his alcoholism but himself, not God, not his parents, not society. We are weak humans and indeed something that seems briefly pleasurable can overcome all of our good intentions. Why do you think people are addicts? It’s totally irrational. They ingest a poison into their body for a flash of artificial ecstasy and then suffer the consequences. No difference IMO with homosexual activity. It’s an addiction just like smoking, alcohol, or drugs.
Lisa N
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SeeksTruth
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Is heterosexuality genetic? Genesis teaches us that God created all and that it is all good. Could someone change from being heterosexual to homosexual with “therapy” and prayer?
I wonder if God has given us people who are gay to test us. They do not fit nicely into good or bad as they are our brothers and sisters, but their being is a challenge to us. We don’t understand all of God’s wonders and yet we condemn people who act the way God created them.
Homosexuality is not akin to murder. No one is hurt by two men loving each other–if we treated them with the dignity God intends us to treat each other.
Studying people who are gay by studying mass murders is in error perhaps as Kinsey studied people who are gay who were in prison. We would not want to study heterosexuals by studying Ted Bundy.
We are probably in error discussing Bible verses supposedly about homosexuality in English. I forget which of the “abomination” verses, but one talks, I beleive it is inthe Aramaic, that the word was Kadesh, which referred to a type of temple “prostitute” not necessarily a loving relationship between two people.
With all of the challenges with a few Bible verses, in translations through multiple languages, cultural biases against things that were not understandable in the middle eastern culture of 2000 years ago, it might be better to follow the message of Jesus, rather than ancient Hebrew law. We will be known by our acts.
I wonder if God has given us people who are gay to test us. They do not fit nicely into good or bad as they are our brothers and sisters, but their being is a challenge to us. We don’t understand all of God’s wonders and yet we condemn people who act the way God created them.
Homosexuality is not akin to murder. No one is hurt by two men loving each other–if we treated them with the dignity God intends us to treat each other.
Studying people who are gay by studying mass murders is in error perhaps as Kinsey studied people who are gay who were in prison. We would not want to study heterosexuals by studying Ted Bundy.
We are probably in error discussing Bible verses supposedly about homosexuality in English. I forget which of the “abomination” verses, but one talks, I beleive it is inthe Aramaic, that the word was Kadesh, which referred to a type of temple “prostitute” not necessarily a loving relationship between two people.
With all of the challenges with a few Bible verses, in translations through multiple languages, cultural biases against things that were not understandable in the middle eastern culture of 2000 years ago, it might be better to follow the message of Jesus, rather than ancient Hebrew law. We will be known by our acts.
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SeeksTruth
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Is heterosexuality genetic? do we study heterosexuality by studying mass murderers who were heterosexual like Ted Bundy?
The Bible is not clear about what it meant about abmoniations. We are on thin ice if we are talking about Bible verses that had a far different meaning in Aramaic. I forget which “comdemning” verse, but the Aramaic version condemned a Kadesh, a temple “prostitute”, not a loving relationship between two men. This issue needs more than a superficial “English” debate.
I think people who are gay are a test of God’s for us. They challenge us because we do not understand them now, and we certainly did not in a middle eastern culture 2000 years ago. Some call homosexuality a sickness, but are we sure when we compare that to Genesis, that God created everything and everything was good? He has a purpose and God has challenged us, and he will know us by our acts.
The Bible is not clear about what it meant about abmoniations. We are on thin ice if we are talking about Bible verses that had a far different meaning in Aramaic. I forget which “comdemning” verse, but the Aramaic version condemned a Kadesh, a temple “prostitute”, not a loving relationship between two men. This issue needs more than a superficial “English” debate.
I think people who are gay are a test of God’s for us. They challenge us because we do not understand them now, and we certainly did not in a middle eastern culture 2000 years ago. Some call homosexuality a sickness, but are we sure when we compare that to Genesis, that God created everything and everything was good? He has a purpose and God has challenged us, and he will know us by our acts.
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adanneya
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Is Homosexuality genetic?
from my personal point of view,homosexuality is not genetic why ? is because natural law [physics] states that like poles [matters,individuals] repel while unlike poles attract.
i want to strongly believe * that the cause is enviromental.there are these facts,when were in our secondry schools as young girls b/w the ages of 11 and 17,some girls were alway caught touching themselves,this made them get so attached to themselves as friends[negative],this applies too in males schools [religious and nonreligious alike] and if these are allowed to grow up like this it so get into their system that it is the normal way of life,why it is not so rampart in our part of the world [though one still find them] is that the society has not really accepted it b/c majority of the people still see it as unnatural.*
from my personal point of view,homosexuality is not genetic why ? is because natural law [physics] states that like poles [matters,individuals] repel while unlike poles attract.
i want to strongly believe * that the cause is enviromental.there are these facts,when were in our secondry schools as young girls b/w the ages of 11 and 17,some girls were alway caught touching themselves,this made them get so attached to themselves as friends[negative],this applies too in males schools [religious and nonreligious alike] and if these are allowed to grow up like this it so get into their system that it is the normal way of life,why it is not so rampart in our part of the world [though one still find them] is that the society has not really accepted it b/c majority of the people still see it as unnatural.*
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Lisa_N
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Uh, yeah, you know it’s pretty hard to procreate unless you have male and female. Seeks Truth you are saying the same things on multiple threads. Open a basic biology text and you will learn how species survive and procreate. It is not through sodomy.
No, because you are asking a person to change from their normal nature to an abnormal nature. God created all good but if you read past the creation story you’ll run right into that old Adam and Eve problem…you know Original Sin? Free will? You cannot possibly claim that everything in this world is good because everything is God’s creation. Is starvation in the Sudan good? How about suicide bombers? I assume God made them too.
And the CCC says to treat homosexuals with compassion. Further it is not the homosexual who is “good” or “bad” it is what they do that is to be considered. All through the Bible there are statements condemning sodomy, same sex erotic relationships. You can condemn an act without hating the person who performs it.
And that is what the CCC says, treat people with compassion. But that does not mean that we condone everything they do. You say no one is hurt by two men loving each other. Really? Do you know about the many health problems associated with sodomy? Do you realize that is how AIDS took hold in this country? Two (or more) men “loving” each other. Further there is no reason for homosexual sex other than mere sexual gratification. It has no higher purpose and last time I looked God was all for being fruitful and multiplying.
Of course not. Ted Bundy hardly represents the average heterosexual.
Well being no expert in translating Aramaic, I’ll defer to someone who is. However there are many other references to sodomy aside from Deuteronomy. Paul had a few things to say both about men who lie with men and women who forsake normal sexual relationships with men. ST it is all THROUGH the Bible. Tell me one verse that would condone homoexual sex.
Other than ancient Rome and Greece where homosexual sex was not condemned, there is no society that supports homosexual sex. Many are far more intolerant than we are ST, go to the Middle East, go to Africa, and tell me how homosexuals are treated. Again, basic biology. Threaten the species and you threaten our very core. Homosexuality is ABNORMAL. It doesn’t mean that the homosexual is a degenerate unworthy of life but it does mean we don’t equate this relationship with a normal male female married partnership.
Lisa N
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puzzleannie
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I don’t know about your upbringing but I was raised that any crude disparaging put down of another person was forbidden, and my mouth washed out with soap if I used words like queer, fag, nigger, honky etc.
I have never, in all the time I have studied homosexuality and the gay subculture (it was part of my job to do so for several years, and now is part of my job to know and impart church teaching on this subject) I have never heard or read a charge that anyone afflicted with this disorder has a “warped brain” – what on earth are you reading? If you are spending time on websites that perpetuate such ideas you need to spend your time here instead.
Homosexuality is a disorder, its origins are under study and the best research shows it has complex psychological causes early in the child’s development, and may have contributing causes that are as yet poorly understood. There is not one shred of evidence other than a poorly conducted study by a biased homosexual researcher that there is a genetic basis for this disorder. This is not to say that some prenatal influences–disturbance in maternal hormones for instance–could not play a role. In any case, my opinions and yours are of absolutely no value in deciding something that science has been unable to prove up to this point so why speculate?
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Chris_Jacobsen
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It’s genetic. It’s caused by the lust gene.
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Lisa_N
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puzzleannie, maybe it’s more of a discussion than speculation. It helps to posit such questions although I agree, there would be a more appropriate way to frame the discussion than characterizing homosexuality as a “warped brain.”
I appreciate your depth of knowledge and experience on this issue and thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
I haven’t done a lot of research but I’ve probably had more lengthy interaction with homosexuals because of a particular interest that seems to attract a significant proportion of homosexuals. Thinking of the four men I know the best, all but one were apparently heterosexual until their twenties or even thirties. I knew them as teenagers and they seemed like normal boys, interested in girls, cars and sports. They did not seem to be confused, conflicted, or depressed. So the theory we MUST have homosexual “mentors” or have homosexual practices taught in schools seems to be pointless unless our objective is to sexualize people at an age when they are not mentally able to deal with the ramifications.
Given that one was married over a decade and had kids and another had a longterm livein girlfriend, I think homosexuality is something that is not ‘hardwired’ in at birth. But given a certain tendency (whether experiental or environmental) all of them were open to pursuit and seduction by older homosexuals.
At any rate I appreciate your confirmation that some of the supposed “gay gene” theories are neither widely held or considered valid.
Lisa N
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littleitaly
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Chris Jacobsen:
There is nothing genetic of homosexuality. It deals with the confusion of the mind because society accepts something that in reality is against the will of the Holy Spirit. Therefore with this acceptance by society, this allows the younger crowd to see something in their minds as to be not all that wrong because they have not been raised otherwise. If people would stop saying that “it is ok they are not bothering me” and start being more direct about the issue by telling them that their behavior is not accepted in public or anywhere else. This would include telling this to family members. You can still love a person with problems, but at this point if they continue to disobey God’s law then all we can do is pray for them. They are caught up in the tangled web of lust, be it from a man or a woman. We have allowed week men in government that have decided to go along with this so called freedom issue. By giving those who do wrong their freedom, we are denying those who wish to do right their freedom and also the right to raise their children up as good Christians. This is also why we are to teach our children right from wrong at a young age (very young) so they know the exact difference in proper and improper behavior according to God. Blame will also take place in the court system. We truly need to start voting in true Christian judges instead of the corrupted ones. This is something that needs to be dealt with on a national level. Lets be united on this and start voting out those who we know make bad moral decisions in the court rooms
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littleitaly
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Many of you are missing the point of being a good Christian as Jesus had wanted us to be. Jesus does not accept homosexuality then and he does not accept it now nor will it be acceptable in the future and definitely not in Heaven. I’ve made this statement time and time again, as it is written in the Old Testament that it is an abomination to do such acts and in the New Testament Jesus said with confirmation that not one jot or one tittle shall be lost from the Law. Yes you can continue to disagree with what I have presented here, but understand this, what I have given to you as good supported info that comes from the Holy Spirit himself, you would be telling God that he is **wrong. **I know that I would not want to be in your shoes on that day that you would say they to him directly. God bless all of you and peace to all. To those of you who live this destructive life I pray for you to get a better understanding that what has been presented to you in your lifetime is truly wrong and that God will forgive you. All you need to do is ask for forgiveness and repent and (here is the tougher part) sin no more. When Jesus was asked how often are we to forgive our brothers of their sins, Jesus said that we are to forgive him seventy times seven. Meaning that we are to have patience towards those who are wrong in their ways and to continue to help them realize that what they are doing is not only destructive to themselves but to all that they socialize with. Yes a hard road to travel, but we can make it work (together). May the Angels of Heaven watch over us and help guide us away from Satans temptations. By the power of the Holy Spirit.
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Pious_Redeemer
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I’ve seen/read some scientific studies on homosexual behaviour among animals. Apparently, chimpansees (who’s DNA has more than 99% in common with the DNA of human beings), pinguins, etc. “perform” homosexual behaviour. It seems to belong to the nature of some mammals, including some human beings (according to Aristotle, a human being is a “animal rationale”). Animals don’t bother about this kind of behaviour, because they are not in need of morality nor religion. They are far more “happier” than we are because they don’t need a concept of sin, like we apparently do. Human beings, however, are in need of these things. Morality, because some humans kill each other off, religion, because every human sentient being knows he/she is mortal.
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Lisa_N
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Pious Redeemer:
As to chimps, I’d be curious about the study, whether it was reported in a respected journal and replicated. If the study were performed in captivity, realize that captivity creates aberrant behavior. Chimps in captivity will do all kinds of disgusting things as anyone who has taken their child to the zoo knows well.
Growing up on a farm I witnessed “homosexual” behavior among cows. It’s what they do when they are in heat an no bull is around. However the behavior is meant to attract a bull, not repel him. Once the opportunity arises they are very happily heterosexual.
I do not doubt that people can be conditioned to respond sexually to seemingly bizarre things, people and circumstances. This is more of an experiential than a biological thing. Often fetishists have some sort of childhood experience that makes them turn on at the sight of shoes or eyeglasses. Whatever.
I’m really not sure that you made your point and would appreciate if you would explain the “need” for sin. Huh?
Lisa N
Pious there is a HUGE difference between situational and sporadic homosexual actions and being homosexual. The penguin story has been blown out of proportion. I think there ONE PAIR of penguins who have bonded to each other. This proves??? If you know about birds you know that they are very associative. If a person is the first thing they see when hatched they will follow the person around and ignore their mothers. IOW there is a reason for the term “bird brain.”
As to chimps, I’d be curious about the study, whether it was reported in a respected journal and replicated. If the study were performed in captivity, realize that captivity creates aberrant behavior. Chimps in captivity will do all kinds of disgusting things as anyone who has taken their child to the zoo knows well.
Growing up on a farm I witnessed “homosexual” behavior among cows. It’s what they do when they are in heat an no bull is around. However the behavior is meant to attract a bull, not repel him. Once the opportunity arises they are very happily heterosexual.
I do not doubt that people can be conditioned to respond sexually to seemingly bizarre things, people and circumstances. This is more of an experiential than a biological thing. Often fetishists have some sort of childhood experience that makes them turn on at the sight of shoes or eyeglasses. Whatever.
I’m really not sure that you made your point and would appreciate if you would explain the “need” for sin. Huh?
Lisa N
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bkniceley
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I dont believe that homosexuality is genetic. If you look back to the old testament to the people of sodom and gommorah it said that many performed homosexuality behaviors along with many other sins and all would be destroyed if they continued in their ways. This must mean that they can change from their ways. Also about7 years ago i knew someone that was gay but wanted to change because the bible prohibited homosexuality. And now this day he actually has a family with kids. It is amazing how God can help overcome any sin. And i believe that this is one of the sins that the physiciatrists cannot cure, that support groups cannot help out with but only with the help of god one can overcome it. I think this might be the reason why society tells us that this is a genetic trait and therefore noone can change themselves. However through god anything can be changed.
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