Is is ever ok to leave the Catholic Church?

[Mt_28_19_20]

Yes, it had a local Bishops imprimatur and later it was reviewed by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and after this review the local Imprimatur was revoked. Which should have prohibited any further printing.

Br. Rich,

 Thank you for your timely reply.

I’ll assume he was not the local bishop of Rome when he granted an imprimatur that was later revoked. Imagine if he had been a member of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Would his voice have counted? Would he later be permitted to serve on an Ecumenical council, with its promised infallibility?

So what good is an imprimature that has not undergone a review by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith? Can we rely on it otherwise? If one bishop approves something, he can be out voted? Why didn’t he just revoke it himself? Or would that give the impression of acknowledging error? Wouldn’t that be preferred to being out voted? Either way something is acknowledge as error. Just a matter of someone admitting to their own error, or others admitting it for them or instead of them.

Michael

 

[rejected_chrp]

I left the church after seeing that what they preach is not what is practiced. This was from the bishop all the way down to the lay teachers. Do I have bitterness about the whole thing,“Yes” To me it is all about money

 

[4HisChurch]

Here’s a different twist on this question:

Do you think God sometimes allows you take a break from the Catholic Church for awhile in order to get to know Him in a different way in a Protestant Church, only to return later with a greater appreciation and hunger for His holy Catholic Church? I ask not for myself, but for some friends of mine who were Catholic in name only- took none of it to heart- lived as the world lives. They went to Church only to send their kids to the school at a discount. I tried- I gave them all I had- but it fell on deaf ears. They were not ready or open to even discuss the theology of the Truth.

Then- BOOM! They get invited to a non-denom church- that has BALLROOM DANCING for couples, and bounce houses for the kids, and every kind of fellowshipping thing you can think of. Now, miraculously, they talk openly about Jesus- their prayer life, etc. Their marriage has improved 1000%- she no longer challenges him on everything, but “submits to him in all things.” The difference is remarkable. I don’t want to jump in and say- “Yes, BUT…” Actually, I have tried- I gave one last impassioned plea about knowing what you are leaving behind (the eucharist) and what you are replacing it with (bounce houses and ballroom dancing)- but it didn’t work. Now I look like a religious snob and intolerant, ect. So I wonder, maybe they needed this detour to just get them interested, and then, in a while, maybe that interest will lead them right back home. Heck- I started out Protestant and fell in love with Jesus THERE. Maybe in this case, it’s OK? Their priest was very unkind and unwelcoming to them while Catholic. They married outside the Church, and he made no invitations to help them regularize the marriage. Instead, he just forbade them from receiving communion. I feel this approach kind of “pushed” them out the door.

Sometimes, I think, people “discover” Christ in a Protestant congregation and that God uses that as a stepping stone for them to come back to the Church. I think God is always calling His children back to the Church and the Eucharist. Continue to pray for them that they will recognize their hunger for Christ’s Real Presence.

 

[LoverofChrist]

I left the church after seeing that what they preach is not what is practiced. This was from the bishop all the way down to the lay teachers. Do I have bitterness about the whole thing,“Yes” To me it is all about money

I think your bitterness has nothing to do with the Catholic faith. You need to seperate the two out. You are talking about humanness. Money plays a huge factor in most religions depending on the humans involved. My in-laws belong to a church where they tithe a great deal of their earnings and live very simply in order to do that. Their minister has 7 children. The minister’s family lives in a huge beautiful home and drive very nice vehicles that are paid for with the money tithed to the church. While my in-laws see nothing wrong with it…I do. The thing is, they aren’t there because of how the money is spent but because of their true faith. Guess it is where you put your mind and heart.

When I asked the question about leaving the Catholic Church, I was talking about when it is to keep a family together. I think that my sister was wrong but she truly believes that she did it for the right reasons. She was very much in love with church when she left and still holds on to a lot of things about it. What I see the problem to be is that she was looking at satisfying something here on earth without looking at how that would affect her later. She wanted to marry a very good and loving man and have a family with him. The only way she could do that though was to leave the church. We all do that though. We spend too much time trying to satisfy our wants and needs in the here and now and lose the ultimate in the end.

 

[rejected_chrp]

the church position on what happened was that it was God’s will and there was nothing that they were going to do to fix the problem.
actions speak louder than words and what happened spoke volumes.

 

[Galandriel]

Wow, pray for her.

It seems as if keeping her family intact is a priority for her instead of God.

You can’t keep your family together if your first priority isn’t God.

Prayers for your family!

And rejected chrp, I am so sorry you experienced that. When the Church should be the most loving and accepting, sometimes we find the opposite. I truly hope you do not judge a whole religion based on your bad experience. it is never easy, especially when you work for the Church, but I believe that the Fullness of Truth is found within the Catholic Church and not the weak humans who run it, including myself. (I’m a Youth Minister) When things get really tough, it is Jesus I seek in the Blessed Sacrament. He never lets me down. Prayers for you!

 

[LoverofChrist]

Wow, pray for her.

It seems as if keeping her family intact is a priority for her instead of God.

You can’t keep your family together if your first priority isn’t God.

Prayers for your family!

The thing is, she converted to the Lutheran church with her husband and is very devout. They are at church every Sunday with their kids and are very active in the church. While I feel this is great for her family, I think it is a big problem for her. She really feels though that since she never gave up her faith in God, she is ok. I think this is warped thinking. We don’t discuss it much though because she becomes very confrontational and angry.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I left the church after seeing that what they preach is not what is practiced. This was from the bishop all the way down to the lay teachers. Do I have bitterness about the whole thing,“Yes” To me it is all about money

It was all about money for judas too, and Christ picked him, Himself! There will always be what is called the “human element” in the Church. That does not mean that the Church herself is bad.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

I left the church after seeing that what they preach is not what is practiced. This was from the bishop all the way down to the lay teachers. Do I have bitterness about the whole thing,“Yes” To me it is all about money

In Mt 23:1-12, did Jesus teach leaving God’s Church due to hypocisy of many of the leaders?

Do you have an educated disagreement with central Church teaching, or the way we live our faith imperfectly? People and ministers in nonCatholic churches are not perfect and are hypocritical in someway. Do you perfectly practice what you believe?

I’ve said this before, Martin Luther had a lot of good reasons to speak up for reform, and in my opinion his greatest mistake was leaving the Church, rather than remaining a voice inside the Church. If everyone who sees hypocrisy and thinks they are better than that and find it easier to leave than to be a voice of reason, are they not in many ways contributing to hypocrisy continuing to the extent it does? A certain amount of accountablility is healthy for the Church, and if many find it easier to be above having to be a steadfast voice of reason, and simply abandon the Church, how Christ like is that? Jesus spoke up about hypocrisy, without telling people to leave because of hypocrisy. Figure out who teaches the true gospel, regardless of the hypocrisy you will see, since you will see hypocrisy in every denomination. Watch me long enough and you will see hypocrisy in me, and you won’t have to wait very long.

Michael

 

[DebChris]

In Mt 23:1-12, did Jesus teach leaving God’s Church due to hypocisy of many of the leaders?

Do you have an educated disagreement with central Church teaching, or the way we live our faith imperfectly? People and ministers in nonCatholic churches are not perfect and are hypocritical in someway. Do you perfectly practice what you believe?

I’ve said this before, Martin Luther had a lot of good reasons to speak up for reform, and in my opinion his greatest mistake was leaving the Church, rather than remaining a voice inside the Church. If everyone who sees hypocrisy and thinks they are better than that and find it easier to leave than to be a voice of reason, are they not in many ways contributing to hypocrisy continuing to the extent it does? A certain amount of accountablility is healthy for the Church, and if many find it easier to be above having to be a steadfast voice of reason, and simply abandon the Church, how Christ like is that? Jesus spoke up about hypocrisy, without telling people to leave because of hypocrisy. Figure out who teaches the true gospel, regardless of the hypocrisy you will see, since you will see hypocrisy in every denomination. Watch me long enough and you will see hypocrisy in me, and you won’t have to wait very long.

Michael

Well said. Jesus often spoke of the hypocrisy of his time. Yet He never suggested abandoning the teaching regardless of poor example.
In the 12th century, God tapped St. Francis to renew his Church. Those in positions of authority were often corrupt and had forgotten the message of Christ. The life of St. Francis was a radical living of the Gospel message which attracted many followers.
St. Francis and Martin Luthor have been compared. The main difference being that St. Francis remained obedient to Rome. I like the story of when the pope told St. Francis to “roll in a pigsty,” and that is exactly what he did.

 

[Pophead]

Here’s a different twist on this question:

Do you think God sometimes allows you take a break from the Catholic Church for awhile in order to get to know Him in a different way in a Protestant Church, only to return later with a greater appreciation and hunger for His holy Catholic Church? I ask not for myself, but for some friends of mine who were Catholic in name only- took none of it to heart- lived as the world lives. They went to Church only to send their kids to the school at a discount. I tried- I gave them all I had- but it fell on deaf ears. They were not ready or open to even discuss the theology of the Truth.

Then- BOOM! They get invited to a non-denom church- that has BALLROOM DANCING for couples, and bounce houses for the kids, and every kind of fellowshipping thing you can think of. Now, miraculously, they talk openly about Jesus- their prayer life, etc. Their marriage has improved 1000%- she no longer challenges him on everything, but “submits to him in all things.” The difference is remarkable. I don’t want to jump in and say- “Yes, BUT…” Actually, I have tried- I gave one last impassioned plea about knowing what you are leaving behind (the eucharist) and what you are replacing it with (bounce houses and ballroom dancing)- but it didn’t work. Now I look like a religious snob and intolerant, ect. So I wonder, maybe they needed this detour to just get them interested, and then, in a while, maybe that interest will lead them right back home. Heck- I started out Protestant and fell in love with Jesus THERE. Maybe in this case, it’s OK? Their priest was very unkind and unwelcoming to them while Catholic. They married outside the Church, and he made no invitations to help them regularize the marriage. Instead, he just forbade them from receiving communion. I feel this approach kind of “pushed” them out the door.

JudieK,

I think you have a most beautiful spirit and in time hopefully all the colours will bleed into one.(U2) It is what I have prayed for, what we all pray for, an end to discrimination, prejudice and an openeness to one another, no matter what flavour of the Body of Christ we are. King David put it most beautifully when he explained that there was nowhere to run from the presense of God.

Pophead

 

[JudieK]

I believe with all my heart that Jesus gives all men a measure of grace sufficient for salvation. I do not think that one must be a card-carrying Roman Catholic in order to be saved. I do believe, like the Pope said, that the Church is the font of grace bestowed by God that flows out into all the world, including all other Christian churches. Only God can read a person’s heart. I pray for my friends to become Catholic because I want the full treasury of graces (esp. the Eucharist) to be available to them in the sacraments. But I also respect their right to freedom of religion and I love them just where they are. We are all on a journey. I will not push anything on anyone, but I will share everything with anyone who asks! I will also offer and invite, but give people the choice to say no. Then I pray and put them in the palm of God’s hands.

Peace and Blessings to all! Judie

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Well said. Jesus often spoke of the hypocrisy of his time. Yet He never suggested abandoning the teaching regardless of poor example.
In the 12th century, God tapped St. Francis to renew his Church. Those in positions of authority were often corrupt and had forgotten the message of Christ. The life of St. Francis was a radical living of the Gospel message which attracted many followers.
St. Francis and Martin Luthor have been compared. The main difference being that St. Francis remained obedient to Rome. I like the story of when the pope told St. Francis to “roll in a pigsty,” and that is exactly what he did.

Sorry, I don’t like to use the word silly, however, for the Pope to tell Francis to “roll in a pigsy” seems silly, and for Francis to actually do it seems silly.

Other notables about Francis and Luther: if I remember correctly Luther became a priest against his families wishes.

And Francis evidently did not think it immoral to steal from his own father. Quite an example of Christian wisdom. Then there’s the whole story about Francis throwing himselfs on thornbushes sometimes when tempted to sin…

If the Pope told me to roll in a pigsty, I would say no, I was made in the image and likeness of God, not some farm animal. Common, talk like this is going to make Catholics look like blind sheep in a cult.

Michael

 

[LoverofChrist]

I believe with all my heart that Jesus gives all men a measure of grace sufficient for salvation. I do not think that one must be a card-carrying Roman Catholic in order to be saved. I do believe, like the Pope said, that the Church is the font of grace bestowed by God that flows out into all the world, including all other Christian churches. Only God can read a person’s heart. I pray for my friends to become Catholic because I want the full treasury of graces (esp. the Eucharist) to be available to them in the sacraments. But I also respect their right to freedom of religion and I love them just where they are. We are all on a journey. I will not push anything on anyone, but I will share everything with anyone who asks! I will also offer and invite, but give people the choice to say no. Then I pray and put them in the palm of God’s hands.

Peace and Blessings to all! Judie

I understand what you are saying to a point. I respect other religions also and I truly believe that God poors His grace over all of us giving us all the opportunity to get to heaven. I also believe that the Catholic church to be the one true church…the ultimate. What happens when you know that truth and turn away from it though! That is what causes me such great concern for my sister.

 

[DebChris]

Sorry, I don’t like to use the word silly, however, for the Pope to tell Francis to “roll in a pigsy” seems silly, and for Francis to actually do it seems silly.

Other notables about Francis and Luther: if I remember correctly Luther became a priest against his families wishes.

And Francis evidently did not think it immoral to steal from his own father. Quite an example of Christian wisdom. Then there’s the whole story about Francis throwing himselfs on thornbushes sometimes when tempted to sin…

If the Pope told me to roll in a pigsty, I would say no, I was made in the image and likeness of God, not some farm animal. Common, talk like this is going to make Catholics look like blind sheep in a cult.

Michael

Actually the pope was being sarcastic. He did not actually expect Francis to roll in the pigsty. The action Francis took opened the door to the pope actually listening to Francis and allowing the Franciscan order to be established.

 

[Pophead]

I believe with all my heart that Jesus gives all men a measure of grace sufficient for salvation. I do not think that one must be a card-carrying Roman Catholic in order to be saved. I do believe, like the Pope said, that the Church is the font of grace bestowed by God that flows out into all the world, including all other Christian churches. Only God can read a person’s heart. I pray for my friends to become Catholic because I want the full treasury of graces (esp. the Eucharist) to be available to them in the sacraments. But I also respect their right to freedom of religion and I love them just where they are. We are all on a journey. I will not push anything on anyone, but I will share everything with anyone who asks! I will also offer and invite, but give people the choice to say no. Then I pray and put them in the palm of God’s hands.

Peace and Blessings to all! Judie

1 John 5: 9-12 really has helped me look away from the witness of men, to the witness of God instead.

I started out in the beginning looking away from everything that was to do with God. Then I looked to Jesus Christ alone, because I saw His light and was saved. Then I went to Church and they kept saying look to us we have the right doctrines etc. Eventually my resistance wore down, you know the whole guilt trip, if you don’t you are a heretic etc…whatever. Then I saw so much corruption both in the Church and in the History of the Church…that I was plain revolted…Inquisitions…Chritians against Christian, it was just plain sick…so I back up a LOT. I tried looking to induviduals in the Church, and was disappointed every time, even old King Solomon was a rogue, and King David, and then I guess, I came to my senses and saw the only one who is the LIGHT OF THE WORLD…and now I recieved the witness of God concerning His Son and look to Him alone. Call me narrow minded, but I don’t care what denomination or Church, or religion you say you are. If you are His child then I accept you no matter what you say about your Church…it is filled with sinners, rotten hairy, human beings who will fail you, but Jesus Christ does not fail us, for He is the same, yesterday, today and forever…can you say that about anybody you know who has lived on this planet.

Man gives his witness, but I believe in the witness God has give concerning His Son and He who has the Son has life.

Pophead.

 

[st_lucy]

the church position on what happened was that it was God’s will and there was nothing that they were going to do to fix the problem.
actions speak louder than words and what happened spoke volumes.

It sounds like you throw out the baby with the bath water. The Church is full of sinners, I am a sinner, you are a sinner and guess what our bishops and priests are sinners. The CC doesn’t and never has claimed to be sinless. If you are leaving the ONE church that Christ built, because it has sinners than I am afraid you will never find peace. Remember before you start to remove the splint from your brothers eye, try taking out the plank from your own eye.

 

[Pophead]

It sounds like you throw out the baby with the bath water. The Church is full of sinners, I am a sinner, you are a sinner and guess what our bishops and priests are sinners. The CC doesn’t and never has claimed to be sinless. If you are leaving the ONE church that Christ built, because it has sinners than I am afraid you will never find peace. Remember before you start to remove the splint from your brothers eye, try taking out the plank from your own eye.

st Lucy,

Just don’t lose your head. Ephesians 5:23.


Pophead.

 

[po18guy]

God’s truth is God sized, it’s not man sized, so it is often a struggle, you know, like Jacob wrestles with God in the desert. Faith is like that. We wrestle with God, the way a father wrestles with his children- to make them stronger.

Amen! It occurred to me that lots of folks these days attempt to make God “pocket-sized”. They do not believe His grace is sufficient, or his forgiveness complete. They not only deceive themselves, they risk rejecting Him, which is unforgiveable!

I’m certainly no Jacob, but I found myself arguing with God during a most blessed reconcilliation earlier this year. After the crushing realization that I was disputing with the Almighty via his intermediary, I received the most amazing cleansing by the Holy Spirit. I shook so violently that Father took hold of me, fearing that I would fall from the chair!

We are kindred spirits. The peace of Christ remain with you forever.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Actually the pope was being sarcastic. He did not actually expect Francis to roll in the pigsty. The action Francis took opened the door to the pope actually listening to Francis and allowing the Franciscan order to be established.

Sorry, the whole story just seems silly, in my opinion. Sounds more like myth and fantasy than reality. So the Pope wouldn’t pay attention to Francis, told him sarcastically to jump in a pigsty, which conveniently happened to be near by to be witnessed by the Pope? (or the Pope heard about it word of mouth?), and because Francis seemingly couldn’t discern sarcasm, then the Pope listened to him? Some would think such poor judgement would be more reason not to listen. We are known by our fruits. If our fruit is that we can’t discern sarcasm, and it leads us to do something foolish like jump in a pigsty, how is that good fruit, or evidence of God working in us?
Stories like this may encourage others to view the Catholic Church as a cult. Is there a stone marker where the pigsty was so people can make pilgrimages?

Michael