Is is ever ok to leave the Catholic Church?

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Mt_28_19_20 said:
Sorry, the whole story just seems silly, in my opinion. Sounds more like myth and fantasy than reality. So the Pope wouldn’t pay attention to Francis, told him sarcastically to jump in a pigsty, which conveniently happened to be near by to be witnessed by the Pope? (or the Pope heard about it word of mouth?), and because Francis seemingly couldn’t discern sarcasm, then the Pope listened to him? Some would think such poor judgement would be more reason not to listen. We are known by our fruits. If our fruit is that we can’t discern sarcasm, and it leads us to do something foolish like jump in a pigsty, how is that good fruit, or evidence of God working in us?
Stories like this may encourage others to view the Catholic Church as a cult. Is there a stone marker where the pigsty was so people can make pilgrimages?

Michael
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Hey,lighten up! St. Francis chose to do it and it worked. Anyway, back in his day, a LOT of silly things were happening-not as many as today, of course, but still…

Look at the whole of St. Francis’ life. On balance, it was very positive. What is the funniest thing remembered about your life? Even if embarassing, what if it brought about a much greater good and lead to increasing humility? Win-Win, don’t you think?

Anyway, our faith is so MUCH bigger than a few (or even a few thousand) such incidents. Draw back and look at the big picture. A faith that originated with the humble, woodworking Savior being falsely accused, sold out by one of his hand-picked team, wrongly put to death, scandalized by the suicide of the traitor, and whose leaders left the Holy Land for Gentile territory. Wasn’t there was big Divine thumbs up all through this?

The peace of Christ be with you all.
 
po18guy said:
Anyway, our faith is so MUCH bigger than a few (or even a few thousand) such incidents. Draw back and look at the big picture. A faith that originated with the humble, woodworking Savior being falsely accused, sold out by one of his hand-picked team, wrongly put to death, scandalized by the suicide of the traitor, and whose leaders left the Holy Land for Gentile territory. Wasn’t there was big Divine thumbs up all through this?

The peace of Christ be with you all.
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Exactly, the big picture. In the context of the " the humble, woodworking Savior being falsely accused, sold out by one of his hand-picked team, wrongly put to death, scandalized by the suicide of the traitor, and whose leaders left the Holy Land for Gentile territory. Wasn’t there was big Divine thumbs up all through this?" in that context, someone is going to think the Vicar of Christ told Francis to live in a pigsty, and when he supposedly did, the Vicar of Christ then found reason to be impressed? Was there a big divine thumbs up in that? Really, let’s leave the myths and fairy tales for someone else. 1 Tim 1:4-6
Start making this into Church teaching, and some just might think it o.k. to leave the Church.

Michael
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
It was all about money for judas too, and Christ picked him, Himself! There will always be what is called the “human element” in the Church. That does not mean that the Church herself is bad.
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Christ’s peace, Brother Rich and rejected chrp. Archbishop Sheen put it best: “If you find the perfect church, do not join it. YOU will ruin it”

Praise God and prayers for the two of you.
 
Mt_28_19_20 said:
Sorry, the whole story just seems silly, in my opinion. Sounds more like myth and fantasy than reality. So the Pope wouldn’t pay attention to Francis, told him sarcastically to jump in a pigsty, which conveniently happened to be near by to be witnessed by the Pope? (or the Pope heard about it word of mouth?), and because Francis seemingly couldn’t discern sarcasm, then the Pope listened to him? Some would think such poor judgement would be more reason not to listen. We are known by our fruits. If our fruit is that we can’t discern sarcasm, and it leads us to do something foolish like jump in a pigsty, how is that good fruit, or evidence of God working in us?
Stories like this may encourage others to view the Catholic Church as a cult. Is there a stone marker where the pigsty was so people can make pilgrimages?

Michael
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God does not necessarily choose those “who are wise in the ways of the world” to get his message across. St. Paul even says “we are the greatest of fools” if what we believe turns out to be untrue. Francis was willing to be a fool for Christ, to radically live the gospel message. He did not always understand what was being asked of him. Told to “bebuild my church,” he collected bricks to rebuild the local church. Unlike the rich man of the gospel, he turned his back on his privileged past to live in material and spiritual poverty. Filthy and in need of a bath, he presented himself before the pope who told him to roll in the pigsty. The stories surrounding St. Francis do have the elements of legend. What is important is that his obedience to Christ and the Church brought about a change of heart in many. “Preach always and if necessary use words.” The Sultan would have converted at the words of St. Francis were it not for the actions of many who claimed the title of Christian during the Crusades.
This thread is less about St. Francis or Martin Luthor than it is about living the gospel message and renewing the Church from within rather than from without.
 
Personally, I am so thankful that my spiritual journey brought me into the One True Holy and Apostolic Church that NOTHING will drag me back into the splintering sects of Protestantism.
As far as history goes against the Church, it works both ways - plenty of Protestants persecuted Catholics. Did you ever read English history?
Also, we must remember that the Church is composed of sinners and a few bad apples will make the whole tree look bad, unfortunately.
I just put my faith in Jesus Christ, and when He said that the keys to the kingdom were basically in Peter’s pocket, that’s when I realized that I’m not too good to ignore our Savior.
 
RWMorris said:
Personally, I am so thankful that my spiritual journey brought me into the One True Holy and Apostolic Church that NOTHING will drag me back into the splintering sects of Protestantism.
As far as history goes against the Church, it works both ways - plenty of Protestants persecuted Catholics. Did you ever read English history?
Also, we must remember that the Church is composed of sinners and a few bad apples will make the whole tree look bad, unfortunately.
I just put my faith in Jesus Christ, and when He said that the keys to the kingdom were basically in Peter’s pocket, that’s when I realized that I’m not too good to ignore our Savior.
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Isn’t it poweful how the Holy Spirity speaks so beautifully through us!!!
 
P.S. I’m posting this upon reading the last post on Page One of this thread…
JudieK said:
Here’s a different twist on this question:

…I gave one last impassioned plea about knowing what you are leaving behind (the eucharist) and what you are replacing it with (bounce houses and ballroom dancing)- but it didn’t work. Now I look like a religious snob and intolerant, ect. So I wonder, maybe they needed this detour to just get them interested, and then, in a while, maybe that interest will lead them right back home. Heck- I started out Protestant and fell in love with Jesus THERE. Maybe in this case, it’s OK? Their priest was very unkind and unwelcoming to them while Catholic. They married outside the Church, and he made no invitations to help them regularize the marriage. Instead, he just forbade them from receiving communion. I feel this approach kind of “pushed” them out the door.
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I’m not sure how God works either, He’s so mysterious…

When I was undergoing RCIA (back in 2004), something my sponsors mentioned gave me a lot to think about:
:grouphug: **Once a Catholic, Always a Catholic. **

Once baptized in the Catholic Church, no matter where we go or what we do, God still sees us as His Catholic Children… think along the lines of the Prodigal Son…

the ballroom dancing etc probably gave them a sense of fellowship & warmth - joy & liveliness - something that’s tangible in the secular sense.

I don’t know what Jesus would have done: smile or to sigh?
Smile because they’re on fire for Him? or…
Sigh because they have turned away from his True Sacrifice?

"Preach the Gospel at all times, when necessary, use words" - St Francis

Looks like we can only pray…
because when it comes to faith- something so close to the heart…words & advice alone never work.
(we never truly know the reasons behind their choices, only God knows…)

Just be sincerely happy for them, happy that at least they have Jesus in their Hearts now–
I guess Jesus will do the rest 🙂

Not everyone can be saved.
But,
**Jesus can save everybody! :yup: **
 
Pani_Rose said:
Get this video…Common Ground Project An article follows on it here, but we have been able to view it and it is really really good! networknewspaper.org/Articles/tabid/53/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/49/Common-Ground-Project-Outstanding.aspx Common Ground What Protestants and Catholics Can Learn from Each Other DVD - 1 hr 47 min. Genre: Christian Apologetics Documentary Produced by Kensington Community Church protestantcatholic.com/
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As Catholics we have the full deposit of faith,so the only things we have in common with our seperated brothers and sisters, are those things that are already know to us to be true, since the time of the Apostles.

God Bless.
 
Theodore, I agree totally. That is what the video is about. All too many Catholics leave because they were never taught. This is an excellent teaching tool for Catholics and also a tool of evengelization.
 
Pani_Rose said:
Theodore, I agree totally. That is what the video is about. All too many Catholics leave because they were never taught. This is an excellent teaching tool for Catholics and also a tool of evengelization.
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Thanks !! just wanted to make sure we’re on the same wave link… 👍
 
rejected_chrp said:
I left the church after seeing that what they preach is not what is practiced. This was from the bishop all the way down to the lay teachers. Do I have bitterness about the whole thing,“Yes” To me it is all about money
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Matthew 23

1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
 
fellowChristian said:
Matthew 23

1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
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AMEN!!! 👍 Obediance, not judgment.
 
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