Is Isis really Islamic

[christiansibeli]

On what basis can you possibly say this? You seem to be implying that Islam is a religion of hatred for its enemies. Despite Islam’s checkered past, the historical record can easily demonstrate quite the contrary, especially if we are operating on the assumption that Christianity is a religion that advocates “love your enemies.”

Actually YOU are wrong.

Islam is the prime religion that INVOKES and PROMOTES HATE killings.

Mind you, you obviously DO NOT know the islamic religion.

YES ISIS IS islamic. Like it or lump it.

There religion is based on fundamental “truths” which claim that WE are the infidels who deserve to die and be slain.

Now. There IS a basis for this. There is a innumerable amount of quotes which depict the islamic religion and their hate for us.

ON the contrary, islam’s primary view is jihad. They are going to take over. so that the “true” god in their sense will reign and over rule all us INFIDELS.

If I have not made myself clear. Please (notice the sarcasm) dont hesitate for elaboration.

Sick and tired of people like you that seem to defend this “religion of peace” which by all means ARE NOT. Make it like they are innocent…

tell me then, why is it that 1000 “so called moderate” muslims are joining ISIS for war?
EVERYDAY? The governments in countries like Australia and Germany are stopping them and sending them back home… explain to me if they are taking islam out of “context”… which by all means DOES NOT exist…

 

[christiansibeli]

Br. Dominic Mary Vernier O.P. argues in the affirmative in a recent Dominicana blog, March 9, 2015. In his view and others Isis is living out, to the letter, the life and teaching and practices of Muhammad himself and thus view themselves as prophets of the prophet. In Brother Dominic’s view,

" Muslims who call the Islamic State un-Islamic are typically, as the Princeton scholar Bernard Haykel, the leading expert on the group’s theology, told me, “embarrassed and politically correct, with a cotton-candy view of their own religion” that neglects “what their religion has historically and legally required.” Many denials of the Islamic State’s religious nature, he said, are rooted in an “interfaith-Christian-nonsense tradition.”

But you can read the article yourself here. dominicanablog.com/.

Linus2nd

UMMMMMM>…

I think this brother is in COMPLETE denial…

Islam is ISIS> Islam has its foundation based on jihad…

Take a look at Robert Spencer… Professional Apologetic who specialises in islam… he knows it inside and out.

Islam is not what it is made to be out…
it is NOT a religion of peace…
it is NOT good or does it obtain any sense…

This brother is quite alluded.

Muhammad did exactly the things ISIS is doing…
When the jews did not accept him as the prophet he beheaded them…
then and went around creating war and chaos, taking over the lands of Christians and killing them…

So is this brother saying that ISIS is NOT based on muhammad, yet clearly they are practising what muhammad himself did…

Quite contradictory…

 

[epan]

Unlike Jesus, and unlike Buddha, Mohammed did actually lead armed conflicts, eventually to capture Mecca.

In the sense of following the example of the founder of the religion, yes ISIS and other Muslim sects who follow the other tenants of Islam are being true to their religious roots.

Many westerners do not appreciate the meaning of Jihad, which is seen as the struggle against evil, and is aligned with the Hebrew Prophets. In this respect Islam is heavily influenced by the Old Testament POV.

Those who are from cultures more aligned with the New Testament should keep this in mind, when thinking about these acts of war. It makes a lot more sense in that context.

 

[Retread_Mick]

Is Westboro Baptist Church christian? They think so.

Westboro Baptist boasts a total of 40 members, mostly members of Fred Phelps extended family, who so far have certainly been extremely obnoxious, but have yet to murder anyone.

I don’t think ISIS speaks for all of Islam, just like I don’t think radical Christians speak for all of Christianity.

ISIS on the other hand numbers in the thousands, or perhaps millions, and has recruits pouring in from all over the world.

With all due respect, I would suggest that ISIS projects a clearer picture of Islam, than Westboro Baptist does of Christianity.

 

[Per_Crucem]

It can justify its actions through its version of Christian theology.

It can. However, it cannot do so based on the NT or the words of Christ. The same cannot be said with respect to the Qu’ran and the hadiths used by ISIS for its version of Islamic theology.

That this same version would be viewed as grossly in error and containing extra stuff and missing some vital stuff by Catholic theological standards doesn’t mean it isn’t a version of Christianity. It means it is a Christian theology in error.

Indeed. They do claim to be Christian. However, as also stated, they aren’t murdering anyone.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

It can. However, it cannot do so based on the NT or the words of Christ. The same cannot be said with respect to the Qu’ran and the hadiths used by ISIS for its version of Islamic theology.

Indeed. They do claim to be Christian. However, as also stated, they aren’t murdering anyone.

-Being able to cite the NT only matters if their theology is based solely on the NT. It is not.
-So murder is the standard we are to use? “Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.” NT trumps OT right?

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Westboro Baptist boasts a total of 40 members, mostly members of Fred Phelps extended family, who so far have certainly been extremely obnoxious, but have yet to murder anyone.

ISIS on the other hand numbers in the thousands, or perhaps millions, and has recruits pouring in from all over the world.

With all due respect, I would suggest that ISIS projects a clearer picture of Islam, than Westboro Baptist does of Christianity.

So the legitimacy of a faith is based upon the number of followers and not its theology?

 

[Retread_Mick]

So the legitimacy of a faith is based upon the number of followers and not its theology?

My post had no reference to the legitimacy of any faith. What I was pointing out was that ISIS is far more representative of Islam than Westboro Baptist is of Christianity. As yet no one is hurrying to join Westboro Baptist, however thousands are rushing to ISIS.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

My post had no reference to the legitimacy of any faith. What I was pointing out was that ISIS is far more representative of Islam than Westboro Baptist is of Christianity. As yet no one is hurrying to join Westboro Baptist, however thousands are rushing to ISIS.

Thank you for the clarification. I agree with your above.

 

[Retread_Mick]

-Being able to cite the NT only matters if their theology is based solely on the NT. It is not.
-So murder is the standard we are to use? “Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.” NT trumps OT right?

It is extremely difficult for reasonable people, to equate a bunch of whackos, (forgive me Lord), carrying picket signs, with the wholesale slaughter taking place at the hands of ISIS.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

It is extremely difficult for reasonable people, to equate a bunch of whackos, (forgive me Lord), carrying picket signs, with the wholesale slaughter taking place at the hands of ISIS.

It really depends on how they are being equated. Both are equally as horrible- yeah, I can see how it would difficult to view such an equation as valid (I don’t, one is easily categorized as worse than the other). Both are equally as valid in regards to being classified as versions of their respective faiths- I can’t see how someone would find such an equation difficult to accept.

 

[Per_Crucem]

-Being able to cite the NT only matters if their theology is based solely on the NT. It is not.

And is, therefore, not Christian

-So murder is the standard we are to use? “Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.” NT trumps OT right?

No, not at all. I am not talking about the degree of sin involved. Rather, I am discussing the import of what they are doing within human society. Westboro is obnoxious. ISIS is a threat to civilization.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

And is, therefore, not Christian

No, not at all. I am not talking about the degree of sin involved. Rather, I am discussing the import of what they are doing within human society. Westboro is obnoxious. ISIS is a threat to civilization.

-WBC isn’t Christian because it’s theology isn’t based solely on the NT? That would invalidate as Christian pretty much every Christian faith.
-So the impact on human society of a faith is what determines its value? That’s a rather human-centric, as opposed to God-centric, view.

 

[MaryandJoseph]

Entire Christian neighborhoods are being destroyed.

Christians are being beheaded…

Christian churches are being burned…

ISIS is committing these horrific crimes in their name of Islam and their god (lower g meant) so yes, I believe they are Islamic.

IF, this group does NOT represent true Islam, then why does the Muslim world not stand up and condemn and fight against them? After all, IF isis does not speak for “true” Islam then one would think they would be quick to condemn them and try to stop them. I have not seen this happening yet, in small pockets maybe and the country of Turkey (only because of the horrific burning alive of one of her military).

Entire Islamic countries need to stand up against ISIS to condemn them and STOP them.

As I see it (and this is My POV only) we have gotten to Politically Correct in our thinking and speaking. We are afraid to use the word “terrorist” when that word definitely applies to these extremest of Islam.

Are there peace loving, honorable and caring people within Islam? Of course there is! They like so many others, go to work to support their families, they love and care for their children and try to raise them in a loving and supportive home. I pray that THESE are the true face of Islam.

I love history and find it hugely important. BUT, history should be used as a tool to learn from our mistakes as apposed to Repeating them. I mention this because a young woman I attend Mass with will bring up the “evils” that Christians have committed in the distant past as justification for ISIS in the present. BOLOGNA!!! Learn from history…study history…but do NOT repeat the evils of history. ISIS, in my opinion did not get that memo.

All of our trials and sufferings will be worth it when we get to heaven and spend eternity basking in the Glory of God.

Attend Mass
Receive our Lord in the Holy Eucharist
Pray the Rosary and let Mary guide you to her Son
Go to Confession
LIVE your faith

A perfect recipe for entering the Pearly Gates of Heaven:thumbsup:

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Entire Christian neighborhoods are being destroyed.

Christians are being beheaded…

Christian churches are being burned…

ISIS is committing these horrific crimes in their name of Islam and their god (lower g meant) so yes, I believe they are Islamic.

IF, this group does NOT represent true Islam, then why does the Muslim world not stand up and condemn and fight against them? After all, IF isis does not speak for “true” Islam then one would think they would be quick to condemn them and try to stop them. I have not seen this happening yet, in small pockets maybe and the country of Turkey (only because of the horrific burning alive of one of her military).

Entire Islamic countries need to stand up against ISIS to condemn them and STOP them.

As I see it (and this is My POV only) we have gotten to Politically Correct in our thinking and speaking. We are afraid to use the word “terrorist” when that word definitely applies to these extremest of Islam.

Are there peace loving, honorable and caring people within Islam? Of course there is! They like so many others, go to work to support their families, they love and care for their children and try to raise them in a loving and supportive home. I pray that THESE are the true face of Islam.

I love history and find it hugely important. BUT, history should be used as a tool to learn from our mistakes as apposed to Repeating them. I mention this because a young woman I attend Mass with will bring up the “evils” that Christians have committed in the distant past as justification for ISIS in the present. BOLOGNA!!! Learn from history…study history…but do NOT repeat the evils of history. ISIS, in my opinion did not get that memo.

All of our trials and sufferings will be worth it when we get to heaven and spend eternity basking in the Glory of God.

Attend Mass
Receive our Lord in the Holy Eucharist
Pray the Rosary and let Mary guide you to her Son
Go to Confession
LIVE your faith

A perfect recipe for entering the Pearly Gates of Heaven:thumbsup:

Jordan, not Turkey. It’s rather hard to confuse the two countries given that one is an Islamic kingdom and the other is the exact opposite. And, Jordan was already fighting ISIS prior to the group murdering its pilot. He was on a military air strike when shot down and captured.

 

[Per_Crucem]

-WBC isn’t Christian because it’s theology isn’t based solely on the NT? That would invalidate as Christian pretty much every Christian faith.

No, it wouldn’t. Other Christian faiths, while not strictly taking everything solely from the Christian Scriptures, are coterminus with the contents of the gospel revealed in them. Westboro’s theology is not.

-So the impact on human society of a faith is what determines its value? That’s a rather human-centric, as opposed to God-centric, view.

Really? So we judge the actions of an adulterer in the same light as we judge the actions of Pol Pot, eh?

 

[oldcatholicguy]

No, it wouldn’t. Other Christian faiths, while not strictly taking everything solely from the Christian Scriptures, are coterminus with the contents of the gospel revealed in them. Westboro’s theology is not.

Really? So we judge the actions of an adulterer in the same light as we judge the actions of Pol Pot, eh?

-Well according to WBC it’s theology is based in the same manner as these other Christian faiths that you seem willing to give a pass to. You even had to move the goal posts away from being able to cite the NT.
-So the impact on human society of a faith is what determines its value?

 

[Per_Crucem]

-Well according to WBC it’s theology is based in the same manner as these other Christian faiths that you seem willing to give a pass to.

Yes, I do give a pass to Anglicans on apostolic succession vs. a group that protests funerals.

You even had to move the goal posts away from being able to cite the NT.

No, I didn’t. You’re being contentious for the sake of it. Are you going to equivocate on a Baptist using a general idea present in the NT to form his views on communion and Fred Phelps on soldiers?

-So the impact on human society of a faith is what determines its value?

Yes, partly.

 

[MaryandJoseph]

Opps…Thank you OldCatholicGuy for correcting me on the country.

Yes its true that Jordan was engaged in battle with ISIS, but still I am wondering where the other Islamic countries are. I mean the FULL force of the political leaders and their military.

What I would like to hear from the middle east Islamic countries is FULL scale condemnation and squashing of ISIS not a passive disapproval of their actions. Again, like I stated, we see “pockets” such as limited police protection of churches and such.

But, these are my opinions of what I see in the media print (rarely if ever the FULL story)

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Yes, I do give a pass to Anglicans on apostolic succession vs. a group that protests funerals.

So double standards.

No, I didn’t. You’re being contentious for the sake of it. Are you going to equivocate on a Baptist using a general idea present in the NT to form his views on communion and Fred Phelps on soldiers?

You object to WBC theology because it isn’t based solely on the NT and give a pass to Anglicanism which has a theology that isn’t based solely on the NT. Double standard.

Yes, partly.
For it to be partly one would have to hold that human society is somehow equal to God.