Is Islam a threat to Christianity around the globe?

[KathleenGee]

I think all of us want the same…peace, justice, tolerance…

It is in the Bible that the just carry the sins of the unjust…

And I also have great sympathy for the Palestinian Christians who are in the middle of it all…I have the greatest respect for their faith because they have remained faithful for 2,000 years to Christ, descendants of the Jews and Arabs who followed Jesus…and still break Bread…and now they are being forced to leave because of the violence…

I met a Palestinian Catholic at our Advent reception and he said there are right now about 600,000 people left…I have spoken out to my diocese to pray for them…and Jesus said about Jerusalem…about the abomination in the temple, to flee…

God sees all injustice…He is coming, and I have to keep working on charity for all…it is hard but faith with love and letting God avenge…we have to let the Lord work in His time…and it is coming…

Turn to reside in the Immaculate Heart of Mary…a beautiful garden in this desert of the world… and we must learn to live more off of God’s power than ours…and to not hang on to the phantoms of this world…because if we endure in love and truth, inspite of our differing beliefs…if we can be in God and try to be fair and humane…we will be living in a much better world in the next with our Beloved God.

 

[staffsgt7]

Lycorth, If you were an atheist or a catholic disguised as an atheist or an atheist disguised as a catholic, i would understand your point of view. But not as coming from a real catholic.

Your post seems to be anti-jesus, anti-thesis. So shall we consider all Catholics to be as good as you are?? I mean all Catholics are like you??

" Love for all" should be strictly followed by “Hatred for None.”

Hatred is for the ideology and that is what that person is trying to say. She stated she didn’t hate the people, but hated the ideology of Islam. She cannot help that Muslims are unable to separate the two.

Since I understand Islam to be so all encompassing of an ideology - politics, religion and personal intrusion your statement doesn’t surprise me although I find that the Musilm idea that they should be so judgemental as personally repulsive since that is what so many do and that is why there is so much violence and persecution of others since Islam teaches they are superior and are to be dominat over others.

It destroys civilizations from within and so after time passes people are unable to separate themselves from being Muslim as one is unable to separate themselves from being Chinese, Indian, Mexican, German, or Italian (just to give examples). We see them in our lands openly stating that they are Muslim first and a citizen second - unless they get caught and have to use their taqiyya to tell us differently. Watch what they say when they protest and take to the streets, or when they are caught on video unaware that they are being caught because that is when we get the truth. We also get the truth from former Muslims who are no longer afraid of telling the truth about Islam for whatever their reasons - freedom from thinking that they will go to hell, freedom from the idea that they will die, and even gaining back the ability to freely think and be themselves.

 

[sedonaman]

Pat Condell on the most barbaric country in the world complaining that Muslims are not given their human rights in Europe.

…

Looks like the Brits need to rethink their notion that, “There will always be an England.”

 

[staffsgt7]

Looks like the Brits need to rethink their notion that, “There will always be an England.”

They should take a look at this video. Take note that it is too politically incorrect to say that they have a big problem.

And I posted about a threat to people, and over New Years there was another (five) Muslim on non-Muslim rape but this time it was in Canada. I would suspect this is happening more than not it is just that we don’t hear about it, especially from the MSM.

Here we have Muslims raping another Muslim and the woman gets jailed.

The thing is that it isn’t so much that the crime was committed but how Sharia laws deal with it. In the case of the Muslim women, the woman gets imprisoned. In the case of the non-Muslims, this crime is increasing and in Muslim lands this is not even a crime when done against non-Muslims.

 

[planten]

The thread was about “Is Islam a threat to christianity…??” But it appears that it has spread (spilled) into politics and Islam bashing. That is unfair.

The matter should be discussed whether Islam is a threat to christianity. I do not believe it is any threat. Islam is not a threat. But the present day Muslims may be a threat to the present day hateful christians. Do the christians really follow the way of Jesus??. Tell me honestly please. I do not ask any atheist. But Catholics should try to estimate the condition of the christians world wide. Are all the christians united and peaceful and loving the entire mankind, like Jesus did it?? I hope not.

Similarly the Muslims are also adrift. So each one is at fault (spiritually, practically). They are harming each other.
(more later)

 

[morning_star777]

Oh, that is such a load. If that is how it works, then why stop at Islam? Maybe I want to start worshiping this roll of packaging tape on my desk, or the copy of Fr. Malaty’s “Introduction to the Coptic Orthodox Church” on my nightstand? It is a pretty good book so far, after all.

These are stupid examples, I know, but there are many heavier examples I could bring from the Bible, like Luke 16:13’s warning that you cannot serve both God and mammon. You might say “well, that’s not fair because there is NOTHING right in worshiping a book or tape or money…those things CAN’T be God”, well, Islam’s Allah can’t be God either, unless you’re calling Jesus Christ, the Savior a liar. GOD knows that things other than Him can’t be God, either, and yet we’re still warned against serving them. Why would that be if it were somehow impossible to do so, because after all, there’s only one God, so everybody is right to varying degrees by default? That’s just not the message I see in the Bible or any of the early writings of Christianity (or for that matter, anything before I read CCC 841). Verses about how there are many mansions in the Father’s house or about how there are other sheep, not of Israel seem to confirm the essential idea that it is possible, through God’s grace that we do not mete out ourselves, for people to be saved outside the Church, but they do not say anything about the gods of others being our God. They’re not.** Islam does not worship God. It worships something else that Muhammad has set up, through his nasty revisionist “visions”, as God. He is just as wrong as those who worshiped Baal or Ra**, even if we don’t necessarily disagree with 100% of what he says along the way.

Christians and Muslims do NOT worship the same God.

Nice post my brother:thumbsup:

 

[dzheremi]

The thread was about “Is Islam a threat to christianity…??” But it appears that it has spread (spilled) into politics and Islam bashing. That is unfair.

I agree. It IS unfair how Islam does not distinguish between religious ethics and political goals. Most unfair. The whole world suffers because of this.

 

[staffsgt7]

The thread was about “Is Islam a threat to christianity…??” But it appears that it has spread (spilled) into politics and Islam bashing. That is unfair.

The matter should be discussed whether Islam is a threat to christianity. I do not believe it is any threat. Islam is not a threat. But the present day Muslims may be a threat to the present day hateful christians. Do the christians really follow the way of Jesus??. Tell me honestly please. I do not ask any atheist. But Catholics should try to estimate the condition of the christians world wide. Are all the christians united and peaceful and loving the entire mankind, like Jesus did it?? I hope not.

Similarly the Muslims are also adrift. So each one is at fault (spiritually, practically). They are harming each other.
(more later)

I understand that no Muslim that I have met likes the part where we can prove all the time that Islam doesn’t mean peace, or co-existence with non-Muslims as non-Muslims think of it as being. I have not met a Muslim who will admit that in dar al harb that are our Muslim lands they are in a state of war and that deception and doing anything to advance Islam is ok.

How can you say what is in the hearts of a man or woman? How can anyone judge how much a person is a practioner of their religion? I have stated this before that too often you, and other Muslims, have placed themselves as judges of others. This is why there is so much violence against others coming out of Islam. Whether you are Ahmadi or some other sect if you are not able to admit that Islam is just as much if not more a political movement that is your problem. I think it is unfortunate that Islam has such a seedy beginning and a seedy history but it does. I can’t help that, but I will not lie just to make someone happy about it. I have their Sharia laws based on the Koran and Sunnah and it is a pretty seedy set of laws too. There is no Islam without politics and there is no Islam without violence.

What is spirituality in Islam when it is forced on people or when it is based on fear? When all it is is a show and when its teachings say that deception and violence are the way in Islam how is that spiritual? To deny this is to not have read your own Koran and Sunnah. To deny that Christians and others are looked upon as less than and are to be killed or subjugated or enslaved is just more deception because that is exactly what it says in the Koran and Sharia laws. Sharia Laws are more truthful as to what is really in store for anyone who doesn’t want to be a Muslim.

Ibrahim added, “However interpreted, the standard view on Qur’anic abrogation concerning war and peace verses is that when Muslims are weak and in a minority position, they should preach and behave according to the ethos of the Meccan verses (peace and tolerance); when strong, however, they should go on the offensive on the basis of what is commanded in the Medinan verses (war and conquest). The vicissitudes of Islamic history are a testimony to this dichotomy, best captured by the popular Muslim notion, based on a hadith, that, if possible, jihad should be performed by the hand (force), if not, then by the tongue (through preaching); and, if that is not possible, then with the heart or one’s intentions.”

Now I know why some have to repeat links. It is because people like you are not reading or are trying to ignore so you can carry on with your da’wa.

I will answer because there are more than just you on these threads. You judge me because I have indicated I am an atheist. How do you know what I was raised as or what I am - you label me because of the word atheist in my profile. We should see even by someone who claims to be so peaceful that tolerance is non-existent in Islam. In Islam you say that your Allah is the judge but you have now placed yourself right there with your God because you judge me and that is called shirk. I have also stated previously the only one who gets away with committing the sin of shirk was Mohammed (Hadith B1,7,331).

 

[jewells17]

You guys better chill out or they will close the thread. I think a spirited debate is healthy and honest…but they will close it down if they think it goes too far.
Planten…google “howard storm nde youtube” and listen to his story…especially the end. Be open minded and see what you think…hope you can watch it all…it’s not too long and really worth it!

 

[staffsgt7]

You guys better chill out or they will close the thread. I think a spirited debate is healthy and honest…but they will close it down if they think it goes too far.
Planten…google “howard storm nde youtube” and listen to his story…especially the end. Be open minded and see what you think…hope you can watch it all…it’s not too long and really worth it!

What are you afraid of? Where do you find something that could be objectionable? Fear is what Islam is based on, are you saying the same thing about what you believe in? That it is also based on fear?

 

[captainmike]

You guys better chill out or they will close the thread. I think a spirited debate is healthy and honest…but they will close it down if they think it goes too far.

if it gets shut down, it just proves the point that many of us have been making: the west is not ready to confront the threat that is right in front of us. we cower in fear.

 

[jewells17]

What are you afraid of? Where do you find something that could be objectionable? Fear is what Islam is based on, are you saying the same thing about what you believe in? That it is also based on fear?

I’m not afraid…I just have enjoyed this thread and don’t want you guys to get it shut down for insulting each other or being unkind to each other and I have seen them shut down two threads for that reason. Sorry…no fear, just want the thread to keep going cause it is so informative.

 

[jpaul1953]

The thread was about “Is Islam a threat to christianity…??” But it appears that it has spread (spilled) into politics and Islam bashing. That is unfair.

The matter should be discussed whether Islam is a threat to christianity. I do not believe it is any threat. Islam is not a threat. But the present day Muslims may be a threat to the present day hateful christians. Do the christians really follow the way of Jesus??. Tell me honestly please. I do not ask any atheist. But Catholics should try to estimate the condition of the christians world wide. Are all the christians united and peaceful and loving the entire mankind, like Jesus did it?? I hope not.

Similarly the Muslims are also adrift. So each one is at fault (spiritually, practically). They are harming each other.
(more later)

Dear Planten,

I believe there are many millions of Muslims that do their very best to follow their faith for Allah and as Allah as the centerpoint.

I also know there are millions of Christians, not just catholics, that follow their faith in The father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as deeply as millions of Muslims do in their own way.

The problems lie in the lukewarm believers of Christianity and the violent extremists in the Muslim faith. The Muslim Extremists will not destroy Chritianity, they will fortify Chritianity against a common enemy. Extremism

This is not what Christians wish for. We Christians live next door to people of many alternative faiths without condemming them. As people we want to love and respect people, just as most Muslims.

The lukewarm Christians don’t believe the truths of our beliefs. They are just there. They will hurt Christianity more than Muslim extremists just as Muslim extremists will hurt Muslims more than Christians will.

We must all pray for unity under the one God of Abraham we all believe in.

All Allah show us all the way.

God is Great
jpaul1953

 

[Lycorth]

Lycorth, If you were an atheist or a catholic disguised as an atheist or an atheist disguised as a catholic, i would understand your point of view. But not as coming from a real catholic.

Your post seems to be anti-jesus, anti-thesis. So shall we consider all Catholics to be as good as you are?? I mean all Catholics are like you??

" Love for all" should be strictly followed by “Hatred for None.”

I’ve seen some pretty crazy attempts to deliberately twist arguments I’ve made online, but this is one of the best. I mean, anti-Jesus; I don’t want to know where you reached to pull that one out.

I explained myself in plain English. If you can’t bear that I hate the Mohammedan cult, I accept that. I didn’t think you’d rejoice in it. But, I implore you to be honest about it and just come out and say “Lycorth, you’re anti-Islam and for that I oppose you” - show a little more decency than to try and guilt me into submission with the hippie-liberal phony-baloney Jesus that the post-modern world has invented for itself. I do not subscribe to such sacrilege anymore than I subscribe to Islam being anything more than wickedness that I pray the Arab peoples of the world abandon once and for all.

Hatred is for the ideology and that is what that person is trying to say. She stated she didn’t hate the people, but hated the ideology of Islam. She cannot help that Muslims are unable to separate the two.

Thanks for the backup… but I’m a he

Since I understand Islam to be so all encompassing of an ideology - politics, religion and personal intrusion your statement doesn’t surprise me although I find that the Musilm idea that they should be so judgemental as personally repulsive since that is what so many do and that is why there is so much violence and persecution of others since Islam teaches they are superior and are to be dominat over others.

I’d at least respect planten saying that. Not beating around the bush with whiny platitudes.

It destroys civilizations from within and so after time passes people are unable to separate themselves from being Muslim as one is unable to separate themselves from being Chinese, Indian, Mexican, German, or Italian (just to give examples). We see them in our lands openly stating that they are Muslim first and a citizen second - unless they get caught and have to use their taqiyya to tell us differently. Watch what they say when they protest and take to the streets, or when they are caught on video unaware that they are being caught because that is when we get the truth. We also get the truth from former Muslims who are no longer afraid of telling the truth about Islam for whatever their reasons - freedom from thinking that they will go to hell, freedom from the idea that they will die, and even gaining back the ability to freely think and be themselves.

Muslim thugs who perpetrate those sorts of actions spell it out for us every day. Question is, when will we start reading the writing on the wall?

 

[KathleenGee]

This evening I just read the fatwa put out by Canadian and American imams declaring fatwa against any Muslims wanting to attack Canada and the USA. Their statements claim that they are free to practice Islam in our countries, teach their young, build mosques, and worship in total freedom…and they pray for God’s protection for our countries…

Good to hear good fidelity and respect to our countries who shelter and care for them…

There has been alot of abuse of citizenship by those coming into Western, and more affluent countries…that Pope Benedict said this past year that newcomers are to respect the host country.

We need to hear more good news…

 

[planten]

This evening I just read the fatwa put out by Canadian and American imams declaring fatwa against any Muslims wanting to attack Canada and the USA. Their statements claim that they are free to practice Islam in our countries, teach their young, build mosques, and worship in total freedom…and they pray for God’s protection for our countries…

That was the right code of action from the very begiining but the Imams kept on sleeping on that subject. The Ahmadis had given that Fatwa 120 years ago that it was Haram to kill any one for the difference of religion, that the Jihaad with weapons was Haraam.

But the Mullas (Fanatic Imams) over powered those poor Ahmadis and labelled them as outside the fold of Islam. Better late than never. It is still good that the Imams have given the right direction to the Muslims. The Ahmadis have been persecuted, killed every day, month in Pakistan where there is the discriminatory law against the Ahmadis. Even one Ahmadi was killed last week in Lahore.

But the struggle for peace from the Ahmadis is still continued in the face of oppression from the Fanatic Mullas.

The leader of the Ahmadis (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad), in year 1890 A.D. had said “Wherever the muslims are living happily under foriegn rule and they can freely preach and practice Islam, it was the duty of all Muslims to live peacefully and faithfully and thankfully under that Government.” He used the word “Haraam” i.e. illegal, to take up arms to spread or establish Islam.

The Muslim masses did not agree to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, even till this day.

…

Good to hear good fidelity and respect to our countries who shelter and care for them
There has been a lot of abuse of citizenship by those coming into Western, and more affluent countries…that Pope Benedict said this past year that newcomers are to respect the host country.

We need to hear more good news…

I always felt that some one should take up the task of explaining the good (peaceful) things of Islam to the poor Muslims living in western countries. It was the duty of the Home ministry in UK and USA to call the Mullas (Imams) together (including some moderate Muslims, Ahmadis) and to take a pledge from the Imams about making the muslim residents peaceful and loyal.

Even now, some muslims will not abide by the Fatwa. But many will abide by the fatwa (religious edict) and will become peaceful citizens in Europe and USA and Canada.

It is a good news and should be welcomed. I hope that Muslims will not fall in the trap of any new Osama.

 

[staffsgt7]

Thanks for the backup… but I’m a he

Oops, sorry about that.

 

[John21652]

Is the rise of Islam in America and around the world going to be dangerous to the spread and livelihood of Catholicism. I’ve read that the ultimate goal of Islam is to rule the world and to convert every non-believer(infidel) to Islam and if they cannot be converted then murder is justified. This I’ve also read is derived from their “most holy texts” the Qur’an and the Hadith of Bukhari. If you ask a devout Muslim about such claims he is liable to say anything in order to placate the situation because derived from the same texts is that it is appropriate to deceive or lie to infidels for the spread of Islam.

I’m still very young in my Catholic faith but what I understand is that the epitome of being a Catholic is to be a saint(spiritual perfection) by loving the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, and soul; and to love our neighbors as ourselves achieved through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
From my minimal research on Islam it seems the epitome of being a Muslim is to spread the world dominance of the religion using whatever means possible. Murder, Deception, Theft, TERROR. If these inherent evils lie deep in the hearts of all devout Muslims hidden in secret.
Could Islam be a global threat to Christianity in the near future?

website I got most these claims
www.thereligionofpeace.com

There is another thread on this forum dealing with a very similar question -
Czech cardinal warns: Muslims are conquering Europe. Catholicism and Christiqnity in general will have to gird its loins and summon forth all the moral courage it can muster if it is to hold sway around the world.
Unfortunatley, the secularisation of the west is aiding and abetting a dynamic Islam.

 

[staffsgt7]

That was the right code of action from the very begiining but the Imams kept on sleeping on that subject. The Ahmadis had given that Fatwa 120 years ago that it was Haram to kill any one for the difference of religion, that the Jihaad with weapons was Haraam.

But the Mullas (Fanatic Imams) over powered those poor Ahmadis and labelled them as outside the fold of Islam. Better late than never. It is still good that the Imams have given the right direction to the Muslims. The Ahmadis have been persecuted, killed every day, month in Pakistan where there is the discriminatory law against the Ahmadis. Even one Ahmadi was killed last week in Lahore.

But the struggle for peace from the Ahmadis is still continued in the face of oppression from the Fanatic Mullas.

The leader of the Ahmadis (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad), in year 1890 A.D. had said “Wherever the muslims are living happily under foriegn rule and they can freely preach and practice Islam, it was the duty of all Muslims to live peacefully and faithfully and thankfully under that Government.” He used the word “Haraam” i.e. illegal, to take up arms to spread or establish Islam.

The Muslim masses did not agree to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, even till this day.

…

I always felt that some one should take up the task of explaining the good (peaceful) things of Islam to the poor Muslims living in western countries. It was the duty of the Home ministry in UK and USA to call the Mullas (Imams) together (including some moderate Muslims, Ahmadis) and to take a pledge from the Imams about making the muslim residents peaceful and loyal.

Even now, some muslims will not abide by the Fatwa. But many will abide by the fatwa (religious edict) and will become peaceful citizens in Europe and USA and Canada.

It is a good news and should be welcomed. I hope that Muslims will not fall in the trap of any new Osama.

You speak as if you are not an Ahmadi. When you wrote ‘But the Mullas (Fanatic Imams) over powered those poor Ahmadis and labelled them as outside the fold of Islam’ you are speaking of someone ‘over there’. To not include you.

You even state and back up what I have stated that the Ahmadis are irrelevant in Islam. They are treated as the Jews and Christians are treated. You are verifying what we have been saying about Islam.

There is no tolerance, or no peace in Islam unless you are what the thug in power, or the more numerous ones want of you. The peaceful verses are only used when it is expedient for them to use it or when they feel they are not in power. When they feel like they get the power then the Medina verses come out.

The Ahmadis can take the Koran and distort it to what they want it to be but it is not mainstream Islam. And mainstream Islam are Sunni with the Shia coming in as a strong second. And the Shia are treated as dhimmi too. But I don’t trust Shia since we see what is happening with Shia in Iran and Iraq. Hezbollah is just as bad as Hamas, and the Mullahs in Iran and Ahmadinejad stated their goal to wipe out Israel so they can bring about the Mahdi.

 

[GraceSofia]

This evening I just read the fatwa put out by Canadian and American imams declaring fatwa against any Muslims wanting to attack Canada and the USA. Their statements claim that they are free to practice Islam in our countries, teach their young, build mosques, and worship in total freedom…and they pray for God’s protection for our countries…

Good to hear good fidelity and respect to our countries who shelter and care for them…

There has been alot of abuse of citizenship by those coming into Western, and more affluent countries…that Pope Benedict said this past year that newcomers are to respect the host country.

We need to hear more good news…

Very interesting. I wonder how influential these particular imams are? I notice they are all in Canada except for one in America.
Here is a link where you can read the fatwa: theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/20_north_american_imams_issue_fatwa_against_terrorists/0017835

And some salient points:

“Muslims pray five daily prayers in mosques without any fear or restrictions. Muslims have complete freedom to pay Zakat (poor due) to the charity or a person of their choice. Muslims have complete freedom to celebrate their festivals openly, publicly and Islamically. Muslims enjoy freedom of religion just like Christians, Jews and others. No one stops us from obeying Allah and His Messenger (Peace be upon him). No one stops us from preaching Islam and practicing Islam. In many cases, Muslims have more freedom to practice Islam here in Canada and the United States than many Muslim countries.”

“In fact, the constitutions of the United States and Canada are very close to the Islamic guiding principles of human rights and freedom. There is no conflict between the Islamic values of freedom and justice and the Canadian /US values of freedom and justice.”

“Therefore, any attack on Canada and the United States is an attack on the freedom of Canadian and American Muslims. Any attack on Canada and the United States is an attack on thousands of mosques across North America. It is a duty of every Canadian and American Muslim to safeguard Canada and the USA.

“They must expose any person, Muslim OR non-Muslim, who would cause harm to fellow Canadians OR Americans. We, Canadian and American Muslims, must condemn and stand up against these attacks on Canada and the United States.”