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jakasaki
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Another perfect example of an English post, writting out everything in English except the word “allah”.
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SnakeMauler
Guest
Seriously. If “Allah” is the same thing as the Christian God and you speak English, why not just call him “God”? It just doesn’t make any sense.
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dzheremi
Guest
I asked a Muslim poster here that same thing and they said it is because it says in the Qur’an that you are to call Him “Allah”. In Islam it is a proper name in addition to a common noun. It is from the sura “Al-Ikhlas”, where it says: “qul huwa Allahu ahad”, or “Say! He is Allah, the one and only”.
I don’t get it either, but that’s fine. Arab Christians and Jews also use Allah, just as the common noun, not as a proper name.
I don’t get it either, but that’s fine. Arab Christians and Jews also use Allah, just as the common noun, not as a proper name.
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SnakeMauler
Guest
Jew’s don’t say Allah! And neither do Arab Christians.
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dzheremi
Guest
Um…I can guarantee you that they do. The Syrian Jewish girl I took Arabic classes with in 2008-2009 at the University of Oregon said that Syrian Jews use it in everyday talk just as Muslims and Christians do, even though they recite the Torah in Hebrew like everybody else in Israel (where her grandmother lives). The Iraqi Arab Christian professor in the Arabic department certainly said it a lot, too, as do Arab Christian friends from Lebanon, Palestine, and elsewhere. Anywhere where Christians speak Arabic as a daily language, they will use “Allah” (though from Lebanese friends I learned the additional Christian greeting “Salaam al-Masih m’akum” instead of “Salaam Aleikum”, which has Islamic connotations thanks to Muslims thinking they own everything). We just know that they are not praying to Islam’s depiction of God! 
We had the word first. We shouldn’t give it up. I also pray to Allah if I am praying in Arabic, just like I pray to El Señor or El Salvador or Dios in Spanish, or Bog in Russian. It is only because of some people’s anti-Islam feelings that the word “Allah” is conflated to be ONLY applicable to Islam’s distortion of God, when it really shouldn’t be. If we let it happen that way because “Allah” makes non-Arabic speakers uncomfortable, then the Islamists win because they’ve been able to successfully divorce the Arab Christian from the land, to erase Arab Christianity from the Middle East, just like they’re trying to do with Syriac Christianity, Coptic Christianity, and all the others. Don’t let it happen! Reclaim “Allah” from the Muslims who think they can define Him for everyone just as they try to define Jesus (Yesu’a) as “Isa”!
Bism al-Ab w al-Ibn w al-Ruh al-Quddus, Allahu al-Wahid, AMIN!
We had the word first. We shouldn’t give it up. I also pray to Allah if I am praying in Arabic, just like I pray to El Señor or El Salvador or Dios in Spanish, or Bog in Russian. It is only because of some people’s anti-Islam feelings that the word “Allah” is conflated to be ONLY applicable to Islam’s distortion of God, when it really shouldn’t be. If we let it happen that way because “Allah” makes non-Arabic speakers uncomfortable, then the Islamists win because they’ve been able to successfully divorce the Arab Christian from the land, to erase Arab Christianity from the Middle East, just like they’re trying to do with Syriac Christianity, Coptic Christianity, and all the others. Don’t let it happen! Reclaim “Allah” from the Muslims who think they can define Him for everyone just as they try to define Jesus (Yesu’a) as “Isa”!Bism al-Ab w al-Ibn w al-Ruh al-Quddus, Allahu al-Wahid, AMIN!
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jakasaki
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DZ - all of this is so confusing.Um…I can guarantee you that they do. The Syrian Jewish girl I took Arabic classes with in 2008-2009 at the University of Oregon said that Syrian Jews use it in everyday talk just as Muslims and Christians do, even though they recite the Torah in Hebrew like everybody else in Israel (where her grandmother lives). The Iraqi Arab Christian professor in the Arabic department certainly said it a lot, too, as do Arab Christian friends from Lebanon, Palestine, and elsewhere. Anywhere where Christians speak Arabic as a daily language, they will use “Allah” (though from Lebanese friends I learned the additional Christian greeting “Salaam al-Masih m’akum” instead of “Salaam Aleikum”, which has Islamic connotations thanks to Muslims thinking they own everything). We just know that they are not praying to Islam’s depiction of God!
Bism al-Ab w al-Ibn w al-Ruh al-Quddus, Allahu al-Wahid, AMIN!
OK, so you say based on your studies & post that Arabic Jews call God “allah”
And perhaps Arabic Christianis call God “allah”
Do you (or other posters) know of any pre-islam Jewish & Christian **documents **that call God “allah”
And why is it that all of the English speaking muslim posters here write everything in English but not the word “allah”?
I know you can’t speak for them, but this whole thing blows my mind.
Thanks DZ
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spn82756
Guest
That’s a tough one. I believe…and Jakasaki you know better than I do…that allah was preislamic but specific to pagan gods. And you know how I feel about allah/pagan gods and Islam. If Christians in the earliest of Christianity in Arabia picked up the use of allah…as in the God of Christianity…then their faith is what counts. I know God has some pretty strange names in some Asian languages.
Keep in mind that I see allah and Allah ( the Trinity ) as two completely different references.
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dzheremi
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Why? “Allah” is the Arabic cognate of the Syriac “Aloho”. Is it confusing when the Syriacs use Aloho (or Alaha, depending on dialect)?
I know anecdotal evidence is not the best, but as I have heard it myself, it is what I can offer. I have also read the Bible in Arabic. It’s all over the place in there!
I would assume that certain apocryphal writings like “The Arabic Infancy Gospel” (a translation from the Syriac) would have it, though nobody is sure of the exact date of that one because the original has been lost. The Syriac it is based on is from the 5th century, though.
It is very, very difficult to find pre-Islamic religious texts in Arabic. Most have been destroyed with the coming of Islam, and admittedly the Qur’an is the first major religious work in Arabic (at least that I know of; the complete Bible was apparently not translated into Arabic until the time of Hunayn Ibn Ishaq, who ironically was not an Arab but a Syriac who translated from Syriac and Greek into Arabic many, many things).
I think I already gave my best guess at this a little bit ago, which wasn’t even my guess. It came from a conversation I had with a Muslim poster on here. I don’t think I can give a better reason than a Muslim does.
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Mosacked
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dzheremi, you guessed too much.Why? “Allah” is the Arabic cognate of the Syriac “Aloho”. Is it confusing when the Syriacs use Aloho (or Alaha, depending on dialect)?
I know anecdotal evidence is not the best, but as I have heard it myself, it is what I can offer. I have also read the Bible in Arabic. It’s all over the place in there!
I would assume that certain apocryphal writings like “The Arabic Infancy Gospel” (a translation from the Syriac) would have it, though nobody is sure of the exact date of that one because the original has been lost. The Syriac it is based on is from the 5th century, though.
It is very, very difficult to find pre-Islamic religious texts in Arabic. Most have been destroyed with the coming of Islam, and admittedly the Qur’an is the first major religious work in Arabic (at least that I know of; the complete Bible was apparently not translated into Arabic until the time of Hunayn Ibn Ishaq, who ironically was not an Arab but a Syriac who translated from Syriac and Greek into Arabic many, many things).
I think I already gave my best guess at this a little bit ago, which wasn’t even my guess. It came from a conversation I had with a Muslim poster on here. I don’t think I can give a better reason than a Muslim does.
Time to get down to facts. As already proven on frequent occasions, the fact is allah is the name of the idol worshipped by the quaryish tribesmen and its also declared as a name in the quran. The regular arabic noun for the word - god is ILAH.
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dzheremi
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Please don’t quote Arabic at me, Mosacked. I may have only 1 year of actual instruction, but I guarantee you that I know more about it than you just due to linguistic study (different from language instruction), and the people I referenced, like the Iraqi professor and my friends from Lebanon, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, etc. know a lot more about it than either of us. None of them dispute that “Allah” is the Arabic word for “God”. It is whether or not it is also a proper name that varies by community. For Muslims, it is. For Christians and Jews it isn’t. And, yes, it was the name of a pre-Islamic pagan deity, but so what?
In Amharic (another Semitic language, spoken by the Amhara people and nationally in Ethiopia), one of the words used for God is “Amlak”, which literally translates as “Idol”. Does that make the Amhara Orthodox Tewahido Christians idol-worshipers, too? Or is it a fact that languages evolve and Arab monotheists adopted the name of the supreme pagan deity to denote the Almighty God in Arabic as they adopted Judaism, Christianity, and (eventually) Islam? The second option of these two seems the far more likely of the two, but maybe you’re right, even though you apparently speak no Arabic at all and know nothing of Semitic languages or linguistics in general.
I’m going to side with every single Arab, Habeshi, and Maltese person I’ve ever met, as well as every Linguist, Semiticist, and Philologist I’ve ever met. They, after all, are the ones who taught me, and they speak these languages and come from these cultures, not you.
In Amharic (another Semitic language, spoken by the Amhara people and nationally in Ethiopia), one of the words used for God is “Amlak”, which literally translates as “Idol”. Does that make the Amhara Orthodox Tewahido Christians idol-worshipers, too? Or is it a fact that languages evolve and Arab monotheists adopted the name of the supreme pagan deity to denote the Almighty God in Arabic as they adopted Judaism, Christianity, and (eventually) Islam? The second option of these two seems the far more likely of the two, but maybe you’re right, even though you apparently speak no Arabic at all and know nothing of Semitic languages or linguistics in general.
I’m going to side with every single Arab, Habeshi, and Maltese person I’ve ever met, as well as every Linguist, Semiticist, and Philologist I’ve ever met. They, after all, are the ones who taught me, and they speak these languages and come from these cultures, not you.
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jewells17
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New info coming in…not all great, but we need to pray about it. Go to www.jihadwatch.org and get daily newsletter and pray about it all.
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jewells17
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You guys seem to be caught in ego stuff…nobody gives a fat rats you know what about these names. We only care about finding out if the religion of peace is a threat to anyone at anytime or any place…and I think we have the answer. And we have been there and done this before…TYLJ. AMEN.
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GraceSofia
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This is terrible. Imagine the terror these families are living through.
I lived in Egypt more than twenty years ago, and back then I asked a Copt why they didn’t speak out more. The answer was that every time they did, things got worse for them.
For many years Pope Shenouda was always praising how well they were treated in Egypt. It looks like the Christians in Egypt have realized that this is not going to work, or realized things can’t get any worse. Pope Benedect spoke out against the violence, too.
That may have made things worse, I don’t know, but I believe now in this age of information, the best thing is to shine a light on the dark activities of the persecutors in Egypt. It would help if the MSM would highlight the persecution of Christians in Egypt.
Egypt depends a lot on tourism from the West. I wonder if pressure might be brought in that area to help our brothers and sisters in Christ?
The list of demands of the Coptics here gives an indication of the persecution they face.
copts.com/english/?page_id=20
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jewells17
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Seek truth…it is more important than anything else and might not come through people you like or love…or who helped you. But…seek truth anyway…it will set you free.
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dzheremi
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Hahaha. Alright, you guys. Forgive me if I went overboard at any point. Really, Mosacked’s “anything I say about something I know nothing about is right, just look at my many links full of either gibberish or stuff that is right but I don’t understand” is pretty ridiculous, but it’s nothing to get too bent out of shape about, that’s true. No different than the Mormons we’ve had here who’ve tried to make outlandish claims about languages in the Americas, though I’ve gotten into big arguments with them too. It’s not an ego thing it’s a “this is what I’m trained to work on for a living” thing. If someone came here trying to tell you what was right and wrong in your particular fields, it might seem to make a little more sense.
But I get it and am unsubscribing from this thread now. Salaam al-Masih m’akum!
Most importantly, to ask irhamny ya Allah! (Have mercy on me, Oh God)
But I get it and am unsubscribing from this thread now. Salaam al-Masih m’akum!
Most importantly, to ask irhamny ya Allah! (Have mercy on me, Oh God)
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Mosacked
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You asking for mercy from allah and not from God?
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staffsgt7
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Someone mentioned reading Jihadwatch every so often. I got this in my inbox about Muslims defacing some things at Fatima.
I keep reading about Muslims defacing other’s stuff but the others don’t do it to Muslims junk. Maybe it would be a nice gesture for Muslims who keep telling us how peaceful Islam is to start repairing the junk others do in the name of their religion. For free. Poverty is not an issue in Europe and it really is not an issue by many who are doing the destructive things in Europe. Poverty is just an excuse that we use to excuse the behavior.
I keep reading about Muslims defacing other’s stuff but the others don’t do it to Muslims junk. Maybe it would be a nice gesture for Muslims who keep telling us how peaceful Islam is to start repairing the junk others do in the name of their religion. For free. Poverty is not an issue in Europe and it really is not an issue by many who are doing the destructive things in Europe. Poverty is just an excuse that we use to excuse the behavior.
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Jehoshua
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The question one must ask about Islam is why is it that conflict and intolerance always seems to arise from their quarter and not from others.
Theirs the well acknowledged persecution of Christians and other religious minorities in the Islamic world.
But for me the biggest question is why does the Islamic community in the west have so many problems and conflicts with the main community whereas no other religious or ethnic minority has widespread problems. You see stuff denigrating Christendom, and jesus all the time but as soon as a cartoon appears satiring Muhammad then you have riots. If we don;t riot over insults to the one we believe to be God the Son then why do Muslims violently riot over an insult to a prophet
If that behaviour is indicative of the majority of Muslims then id frankly say that yes Islam is a threat.
Theirs the well acknowledged persecution of Christians and other religious minorities in the Islamic world.
But for me the biggest question is why does the Islamic community in the west have so many problems and conflicts with the main community whereas no other religious or ethnic minority has widespread problems. You see stuff denigrating Christendom, and jesus all the time but as soon as a cartoon appears satiring Muhammad then you have riots. If we don;t riot over insults to the one we believe to be God the Son then why do Muslims violently riot over an insult to a prophet
If that behaviour is indicative of the majority of Muslims then id frankly say that yes Islam is a threat.
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KathleenGee
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A Muslim woman from Bosnia does not wear desert clothes.
She told me it is those Muslims who come here with their dress are the ones who are political…that want to eventually take over.
Since my posting these last days, I do not think Americans will ever be Muslim…we are seeing too much negativity and their culture is extremely different than ours.
She told me it is those Muslims who come here with their dress are the ones who are political…that want to eventually take over.
Since my posting these last days, I do not think Americans will ever be Muslim…we are seeing too much negativity and their culture is extremely different than ours.
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Contarini
Guest
Your lack of interest in truth is not to your credit.
There are more important things than whether you are “threatened.” As any traditional moralist would point out, our lives are threatened every day by all sorts of things, and as the late Fr. Neuhaus liked to say, the mortality rate is holding steady at 100%.
We are all going to die. While we are still alive, there are better things to think about than whether something is a “threat” to us.
Edwin
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