Is Islam compatible with democracy?

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Brad said:
“Extremists” (killng the infidels) follow the faith as is taught by it’s major source, the Koran. Many American Muslims are equivalent to cafeterial Catholics in that they do not fully practice their faith but pick and choose that which is most comfortable to them. Ogviously this is not true for all American Muslims, in particular the ones that trained over in Afghanistan. However, in general, it is not practical to live in a free society and proclaim the truths of Islam that all infidels should be killed - they would have no prospect of success and very good prospect of failure.
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Remind me which verses in the holy Quoran advocate the killing of all infidels?
 
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Matt25:
Its significant that the US Government waited until they had control of the worlds second largest oil supply before they started criticising the country that had control of largest one.
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So the US Government did the right thing, but that’s not good enough for you because the timing is suspect?

Let’s see, the US was wrong to invade Iraq because war is wrong in all circumstances. The US is wrong to leave Saudi somewhat alone because the government is so repressive. This is starting to sound suspiciously like those leftist arguments that we shouldn’t invade Iraq because N. Korea is so much more dangerous. You’re not really arguing against war, just about the priorities.
 
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StJeanneDArc:
So the US Government did the right thing, but that’s not good enough for you because the timing is suspect?

Let’s see, the US was wrong to invade Iraq because war is wrong in all circumstances. The US is wrong to leave Saudi somewhat alone because the government is so repressive. This is starting to sound suspiciously like those leftist arguments that we shouldn’t invade Iraq because N. Korea is so much more dangerous. You’re not really arguing against war, just about the priorities.
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No I think I was saying that it was significant that the USA waited until it had control of the worlds second largest oil reserves before it felt able to criticise the human rights record of the country with the worlds largest oil reserves
 
Norwitch,
Here are your words:"So are you telling me that GB is NOT influenced by big business and that the oil industry has NO say in policy? . Whether its a democracy, an autocracy, communism or whatever, thats their choice, not yours.

My contention is very simple, people of a country make up their own mind what they are and what they want. You say your people were Scots who left many years ago, fine, that was their choice, others stayed, that was their choice. Are you saying those that stayed were wrong because they (presumably) disagreed with your ancestors? Of course not and, if they were right to make their own choices then why not other people now?
You know and I know that I did not say one word about President Bush and big business. I will make you contention easy for you to prove. Give me one authoritative source that said that the President made decisions based on what would be profitable for Halliburton.

Actually I have compassion for the People of Scotland. I knew one, a radioman on a tanker ship,from Ornky Island. (sp?) The cows had long hair there.

I noticed that you avoided your comments to the State of Texas , me and President Bush. What do know about Texas?
 
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Exporter:
Norwitch,
Here are your words:"So are you telling me that GB is NOT influenced by big business and that the oil industry has NO say in policy? . Whether its a democracy, an autocracy, communism or whatever, thats their choice, not yours.

My contention is very simple, people of a country make up their own mind what they are and what they want. You say your people were Scots who left many years ago, fine, that was their choice, others stayed, that was their choice. Are you saying those that stayed were wrong because they (presumably) disagreed with your ancestors? Of course not and, if they were right to make their own choices then why not other people now?
You know and I know that I did not say one word about President Bush and big business. I will make you contention easy for you to prove. Give me one authoritative source that said that the President made decisions based on what would be profitable for Halliburton.

Actually I have compassion for the People of Scotland. I knew one, a radioman on a tanker ship,from Ornky Island. (sp?) The cows had long hair there.

I noticed that you avoided your comments to the State of Texas , me and President Bush. What do know about Texas?
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About 80% of the restructuring work for Iraq was awarded to Halliburton. Halliburton re awarded 95% of the sub contracts to American firms. British, European and others countries were excluded, not on cost but on ploitical grounds. Who is the ex Chief Executive of Halliburton who is now in the Executive?

Now if that not Nepotism, what is?
 
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Matt25:
Remind me which verses in the holy Quoran advocate the killing of all infidels?
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How about this one?
“They would like you to reject the faith as they have done themselves, that you may be all alike; therefore, make no friends with them until they emigrate in the cause of Allâh. But if they turn back (to hostility) then capture them and kill them wherever you find them, and do not take any of them as a friend or as a helper.” (Koran 4:89)
 
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Norwich:
About 80% of the restructuring work for Iraq was awarded to Halliburton. Halliburton re awarded 95% of the sub contracts to American firms. British, European and others countries were excluded, not on cost but on ploitical grounds.
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And Halliburton’s profits are about 1% after all their monetary costs. And don’t forget human lives lost. Plus, who does what they do, and does it any better??? Do you know??? Halliburton didn’t come around January 2001. It existed looooong before, and loooong before Cheney was hired there years and years ago.

Heck, Clinton would have awarded the job to Halliburton if he was in the same situation, and you would not have batted an eye. Guarantee it. You rail on about political agendas, but it seems you are the one who has an agenda, just because it’s GWB. A liberal in the White House, and you may have difficulty with big, bad, oil, but you wouldn’t be so looney about it.
 
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Norwich:
Haven’t you noticed something, my so called anti Bush stance seems to be echoed by the vast majority (if not all) those who are not American. Now that should tell you something.
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Here again, this is your pereception, I presume inflluenced by sources such as the BBC and the New York Times and CNN.

Ask a person on the street, in particular in a former communist controlled country what they think about the United States and its ouster of Sadaam - try Poland, Hungary, or the Ukraine. Ask them what they think about freedom. Better yet, ask the average Iraqi. I’m not talking about people in the news - I’m talking about the average person. Especially ask someone in Iraq 5 years from now - if we did the right thing. Don’t buy everything you hear or read in the news.
 
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Norwich:
So are you telling me that GB is NOT influenced by big business and that the oil industry has NO say in policy? As far as whether you have a democracy, a representative democracy or a republic, I have no comment, its your country you do in it what you want, but, if you are going to claim, as most appear to do, that your system is what you want then, you should not complain when others operate the system they want. Whether its a democracy, an autocracy, communism or whatever, thats their choice, not yours.
The greatest resentment in the world at the moment is Americas and to a degree Western Europes insistance that everyone must be like them and if your not, then your an outsider who is wrong. My contention is very simple, people of a country make up their own mind what they are and what they want. You say your people were Scots who left many years ago, fine, that was their choice, others stayed, that was their choice. Are you saying those that stayed were wrong because they (presumably) disagreed with your ancestors? Of course not and, if they were right to make their own choices then why not other people now?
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Can I ask a question? What Americans are telling other countries what type of government they have to have?
Where do you get this stuff from? All the US said is you better not support terrorists - that was in our self-interest - it was fair and it was reasonable.
 
Originally posted by Norwich: My contention is very simple, people of a country make up their own mind what they are and what they want.
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No they don’t!!! Not in a dictatorship or a totalitarian regime!!

The idea that Iraqis were free to “make up their own minds” about what they wanted when Saddam was in power is ABSURD.
 
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Matt25:
Remind me which verses in the holy Quoran advocate the killing of all infidels?
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I’ve already posted this due to doubt of Norwich. For your convenience, here it is again:

Try these for starters - this is what the text says, not what you would like it to say:

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111

Verse 9:123 - “Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you.”

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51

verse 5:17 - “Unbelievers are those who declare: ‘God is the Messiah, the son of Mary.’”

“Unbelievers are those that say:'God is the Messiah, the son of Mary.” and then verse 5:73 - “Unbelievers are those that say: ‘God is one of three.’”

“The true believers are those that have faith in Allah and His apostle, and never doubt; and who fight with their wealth and with their persons in the cause of Allah. Such are those whose faith is true.”
 
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Norwich:
About 80% of the restructuring work for Iraq was awarded to Halliburton. Halliburton re awarded 95% of the sub contracts to American firms. British, European and others countries were excluded, not on cost but on ploitical grounds. Who is the ex Chief Executive of Halliburton who is now in the Executive?

Now if that not Nepotism, what is?
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Source please?
 
Am I the only one to notice that Matt25 and Norwich bail out when the questions get tough or the are caught in a lie?
 
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Norwich:
About 80% of the restructuring work for Iraq was awarded to Halliburton. Halliburton re awarded 95% of the sub contracts to American firms. British, European and others countries were excluded, not on cost but on ploitical grounds. Who is the ex Chief Executive of Halliburton who is now in the Executive?

Now if that not Nepotism, what is?
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Y’know someday you’re going to pick a rant that you know something about. Obviously not familiar with how Halliburton probably has no peer here for being able to deploy skilled and administrative people, all of whom have their clearances, meet the physical health requirements of foreign nations and are passport and visa ready and able to go at the drop of hat.

The Clintons used Halliburtom far before Bush did because they are the best company for the job.Do you have any (name removed by moderator)ut into any job you heald 5-7 years ago? Do they pay attention when you call? Do you make executive decisions there? I mean give us a break.
 
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Norwich:
Haven’t you noticed something, my so called anti Bush stance seems to be echoed by the vast majority (if not all) those who are not American. Now that should tell you something.
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It does, you need a new and more open media outlet that will take another tack.
 
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Lance:
Am I the only one to notice that Matt25 and Norwich bail out when the questions get tough or the are caught in a lie?
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In charity, perhaps they are off meditating.
 
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Lance:
Am I the only one to notice that Matt25 and Norwich bail out when the questions get tough or the are caught in a lie?
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I know I’m still waiting for a few answers.
 
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Brad:
I know I’m still waiting for a few answers.
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I can’t speak for Matt25 but I have a life outside this little world of self congratulation and mutual back patting. It’s nice to meet real people occasionally.

Oh and for the rest try looking at the previous posts, I raised the question of influence on the White House and we’ve finished up with a justification of Halliburton and Dick Cheney so does that mean you accept his influence? or is he just another great benefactor of mankind with no ulterior motive what so ever?

As I tried to tell you once before gents, when a nation starts to believe its own propoganda, its in trouble.
 
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Norwich:
I can’t speak for Matt25 but I have a life outside this little world of self congratulation and mutual back patting. It’s nice to meet real people occasionally.

Oh and for the rest try looking at the previous posts, I raised the question of influence on the White House and we’ve finished up with a justification of Halliburton and Dick Cheney so does that mean you accept his influence? or is he just another great benefactor of mankind with no ulterior motive what so ever?

As I tried to tell you once before gents, when a nation starts to believe its own propoganda, its in trouble.
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I asked you for your source of information regarding post #46. I said that I’m still waiting for that answer. You then make an accusation regarding me. This is productive?
 
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