Is it a church or a country club with a cross on top?

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Thats not entirely true, N to S internal migration is NOT the primary cause of these shifts. Cradle catholics are leaving, primarily in the North. Hispanic immigrants are entering, primarily in the S and SW. That keeps the nationwide numbers about level overall.
 
Dca2018 said:
Thats not entirely true, N to S internal migration is NOT the primary cause of these shifts. Cradle catholics are leaving, primarily in the North. Hispanic immigrants are entering, primarily in the S and SW. That keeps the nationwide numbers about level overall.
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Its definitely a very complicated situation. Here in Pittsburgh, a majority of the inner city parishes have merged or closed over the past 40 or 50 years, as the immigrants they were founded by, passed into death and their children and grandchildren usually moved out of the old hood and lost their ethnic identities.

On the other hand, you see a lot more Catholic churches opening and building in the suburban areas
 
Hello.

Just my opinion, for what it’s worth.

I agree about eliminating altar girls. That way the boys will be more motivated to become altar boys - what boy wants to be a part of the group when there are girls in it? Why don’t the girls wise up and let the boys do this service? Agree with abolishing communion in the hand, too. It’s much more reverent on the tongue and I’ve received both ways. I’m undecided on extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion. But I do see with them a tendency to lose reverence.

But, as I said, this is my opinion. I’m only a person. Thanks for listening.
 
crenfro said:
what boy wants to be a part of the group when there are girls in it?
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If I remember my teenage years, I didn’t have any problem with girls. But of course that was a long time ago.

Back in the day, in order to be an altar server, you had to be a boy who was attending the school. The church was in the neighborhood- I lived at the very edge of the parish and maybe a mile from the church. Kids didn’t need a ride, they were right there already as they were in school. They could cut their teeth serving a.m. weekday masses before school, get excused from class to do a funeral. Nowadays, few parish schools, church is miles and miles away, its a different world entirely.
 
What I intended to say is that if it is promulgated, intended, or if the parishioners believe it is just about money, it will fail (IMO). Yes, there is an expectation for families to tithe or give a percent of their earnings. That is hoped to be a result, but I can see many as viewing it as the primary reason or goal. Yeah, maybe in 15-20 years. When I visited a few of the parishes and talked to members (as opposed to the party line. if you will) I found one parish who had not yet started. People in the other three talked mostly about the increase in sense of community, ability to have outreach and spiritual development programs within and outside their church, and, yes tuition free high school education. They also have a large number entering priesthood.

There are four areas that are developed with and for the people of the Diocese.
Hospitality
Prayer
Formation
Service

I truly feel if implemented with these goals in mind (with actions that follow), it can lead to growth and increase in expression of faith. If done with the goal of financially supporting a Diocese, or Parish in need or crisis, that is where people see the cause as money and pull away.
 
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Actually, I did read it.
"I shall now offer some specific prescriptions—none of which is “retrograde” or “anti-Vatican II”; indeed, they are all completely consonant with the documents of the Council.

Liturgy
Eliminate altar girls, Communion-in-the-hand and extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion. All of these practices entered the mainstream in direct violation of liturgical law, were winked at by bishops, and then codified as normative, thus rewarding disobedience. In keeping with the recommendations of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger/Pope Benedict and Cardinal Robert Sarah, re-introduce celebrations of Holy Mass ad orientem, which would have a major effect on the atmosphere of worship and the mentality of the priest. Needless to say, a healthy dose of Latin and Gregorian chant is likewise in order."
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What did I get wrong? Eliminate female altar servers. The ad orientem is laughable. Our church is over 100 years old and as our priest recently quipped, the altar isn’t east. It’s south.
 
crenfro said:
I agree about eliminating altar girls. That way the boys will be more motivated to become altar boys - what boy wants to be a part of the group when there are girls in it?
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I completely disagree–most boys I know either a) don’t have any hang-ups about being with girls, or b) actively want to be in groups that include girls.

My kids are involved in swimming, cross country running, and track & field. The boys want to be around the girls and the girls want the guys. It’s as much social as it is athletic. I see no reason to think it is different in other situations.
 
The exodus started pre-Vatican II, before any of the things you’re suggesting as causes.
 
It seems to me that when I visit a church like that, it’s packed. Tabernacle off in a side chapel, coffee and donuts and bulletin boards in the church itself. People love it.
 
First, they would have to confront the threat to the souls of children posed by so many Catholic schools. All too often, Catholic school teachers proclaim heresy and iniquity in the classroom without being fired.
 
This link contains the false claim that most victims of abuse were ‘late adolescent boys’. Nonsense. The Australian Royal Commission clearly puts the average age of victims as 11.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
In Germany you have good beer. I really don’t think you want to drink any USA swill.
Reminds me of the time I was in Amsterdam and happened upon an American beer store selling stuff like Miller Lite 🤮
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We do have, yes, but sometimes less creative than it cold be. The belgian beers are often a bit more fancy in a good way for example. And I have a weakness for pumkin recipes 😃
 
Mtatum1958 said:
There are four areas that are developed with and for the people of the Diocese.
Hospitality
Prayer
Formation
Service
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AMEN AMEN.

Catholics are sadly sort of proud that they fail at hospitality. I find that odd.
 
While I try to be reasonably friendly and “hospitable” at Church, I was also taught that too much focus on “hospitality” is taking the focus off Jesus, which is what we are supposed to be concerning ourselves with while we are at Church.

Also, as someone who is not terribly outgoing socially unless I know a person well, I resent the idea that I’m expected to be running around putting on my fake “social” persona when I am going to Church to be with my Lord. I am fine with holding the door for somebody, smiling, saying “Nice day”, general pleasantries I would exchange in a grocery store, but if you want me to act like I’m at a cocktail party and run around yakking it up with people, that’s a big distraction from what I’m there to do, which is WORSHIP THE LORD.

On top of that, there are a lot of other people who feel the same as I do and do not want someone they don’t know barging on them when they’re trying to pray. How am I supposed to know who wants to be social and who doesn’t? If I go to Coffee and Donuts afterwards, or to a K of C spaghetti dinner, or to a Bible study, I assume people want to be social because they voluntarily entered a socialization event, so I too am social there, but just walking into Mass, I have no idea what people want. And I myself generally want to be left alone.

I see that some parishes have designated “greeters” who say hello and seem to try to reach out to people who want to chat, etc. That’s fine, that’s a ministry, those people feel called to it. I am not called to it. I am starting to get very frustrated with people who push this issue because it’s another one of those, “I think it’s important so everybody should agree with me” types of viewpoints, to me, and a huge disrespect of the preferences of people who may not want to be as social at church.
 
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Heck, I am the one who found it refreshing that the first time I went to a Mass no one glommed onto me and tried to recruit me!

As I do more work with wide numbers of people with relation to the Church, many people are not like me. So many people, especially people 20+ years younger than me, feel so isolated and hurt if they do not sense a welcome.

We need to find the balance between hospitality and overbearing pushiness.
 
I stopped going to Mass when I was 14. My parents let it slide. My mother went sporadically.

I went sporadically as a teen. By the time I was married, my husband and I didn’t even go on Easter or Christmas. We had to hurry to get to family dinner.

It wasn’t because of altar servers, or lack of fire and brimstone. My parish had a fire and brimstone Monsignor for years.
 
I think that only newer churches have a space for hospitality. Older churches often don’t have a good space for coffee hour, the dreaded conversation among friends (before or after Mass!), Receptions, etc. If a church has a space for a “welcome” desk or something, then it could offer hospitality to those seek it, but not force it on anyone.
 
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