Is it a church or a country club with a cross on top?

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Not in Arizona. They have some church doings where people come adorned in native costumes.
 
I got away with it perhaps?

Secular life seemed more fun.

I’m not really sure.

It was sort of a snowball effect.
 
I’ve had people drop out of RCIA because they didn’t feel welcome in church, people didn’t make an effort to get to know them, there weren’t enough social activities, etc. To be honest, I think hell may consist of endless potluck dinners, but that sort of fellowship is what many people are looking for and something our Protestant brothers and sisters do much better than we do.
 
I tend to think that if people would drop out of RCIA over a lack of social activities, they were in RCIA for the wrong reasons and wouldn’t have lasted long as a Catholic anyway.
 
Yeah, so who cares about them anyway. If they can’t see that being aloof is the perfect expression of Christian love, then let’s show then the door. They shouldn’t be considering the Catholic Church.
 
Hey, thanks for completely missing my point.

There are people who choose a church based on which one has the best activities for the kids and the most fun people to hang around with. Their priorities are not in order. They are a poor risk to stay in the Catholic Church long term. I myself would rather have Catholics who are joining the Church because they truly believe it is Jesus’ one true holy and apostolic church…not because we have the best food at the potluck dinner. I don’t think that’s a wrong thing for me to want, either.
 
It sounds like you believe that if someone else’s reasons for exploring Catholicism aren’t the same as your reasons, then their motivation isn’t good enough.

I’ve talked with people who are interested in RCIA because their spouse or fiance is Catholic and they want to check it out so that their family would be united in one church. Then they may ask if that’s a good reason to become Catholic. I tell them that ultimately it’s not going to be enough – they need to become Catholic because it’s what they want, not what their spouse wants. But if that’s the reason for exploring further, it’s a more than acceptable reason.

Conversely, if they drop out of RCIA before they get to that point, it’s a loss for those individuals and for the Church. They can’t be evangelized if they never get through the door. And if it’s a lack of hospitality that’s keeping them out, then we have to look in the mirror.
 
SuscipeMeDomine said:
It sounds like you believe that if someone else’s reasons for exploring Catholicism aren’t the same as your reasons, then their motivation isn’t good enough.
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If they’re going to leave the Church because not enough people said “hi” to them at Mass, then their motivation is certainly lacking. We shouldn’t have to coddle and jolly new members along. They are subscribing to a belief system, not joining a social club. If they cannot handle this small blip, then they aren’t going to be reliable Catholics when hardships and persecutions come.
 
I read a study somewhere (no, I don’t have it bookmarked) that said 50% of those who go through RCIA stop practicing after a year. That those who became involved at the parish level had a much higher chance of sticking.
 
At church this weekend, Father had just left the altar when someone came up to me. They were trying to sell me an expensive (over $3000) item. We were still in church. Did not feel like church to me.
 
steve-b said:
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JimG:
I have to add a few more quotes:

“I love to ask a very embarrassing question: How is it that most of our Catholic institutions were built by penniless immigrants but cannot be maintained by the most affluent Catholic population in the history of the Church?”

And he did have some good things to say about my former diocese of Wichita:

“If the relatively small Diocese of Wichita can sponsor tuition-free schools, what is the problem with everyone else? What is stopping priests or bishops from adopting the stewardship model that has been so successful there? Is it worth pointing out that one of the effects of the Wichita school system is priestly ordinations in abundance—ten men for several years in a row?”
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Back in that day 78% of Catholics went to mass faithfully on Sunday. Today it’s around 22%
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:cry:

I would post nothing but the sad face if the forum would let me.
 
The article is short sighted is pointing at girl altar servers, EMHC’s and receiving communion in the hand.

People haven’t left the Church because of these things.

Mostly, people reject religion because they haven’t received the gift of faith, which can only come from God Himself.

Divorce in our society also plays a big role in why people reject the Church.

The sex abuse scandal, and especially the recent news about Cardinal McCarrick, rocked the Church’s moral credibility.

Don’t blame the people who are attending Mass today, i.e. the altar girls, EMHC’s and people receiving Communion as the early Christians did, in the hand.

Jim
 
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TheLittleLady said:
AMEN AMEN.

Catholics are sadly sort of proud that they fail at hospitality. I find that odd.
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Some do and some do not. I’m not talking about the lovey dovey stalk me from the parking lot through the end of mass type of encounter telling how glad they feel I’m here and how great the church is. It is the simple spontaneous welcoming of new or current people ( that’s only a small part of hospitality),
 
SuscipeMeDomine said:
I’ve had people drop out of RCIA because they didn’t feel welcome in church, people didn’t make an effort to get to know them, there weren’t enough social activities, etc.
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This may explain why converts do not last, but it does not really explain the decline in the number of people that were cradle Catholics that have left the Church. The article linked had several reasons listed that had no mention of people not feeling welcome, although I personally don’t believe music, girl altar servers or other things listed are in fact the reason they left.

As far as people in RCIA leaving because they didn’t feel welcome, I agree with @Tis_Bearself, if feeling welcome is what it’s all about for someone, their heart is in the wrong place. Or, as I mentioned in an earlier post, they have a “faith problem.”
 
Augustinian said:
Further, in the modern day, parents expect the schools to have a lot of educational options for the children. A lot of public school districts really offer a lot more that a little parish high school with 150 students could ever do.
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We have our three kids in private school.

It’s a good school, but it’s expensive and our big kids in the upper school have waaaay fewer course options and way fewer extracurriculars–that’s the nature of the beast with a small school.

It’s very hard for a small private high school to go head-to-head with a good suburban public high school. We probably wouldn’t be doing it ourselves, were it not for the fact that we have the option of our kids living at home while going to college.
 
Look I know I’m probably a bad poster to ask this, but what if these people are craving for community and support? Perhaps something akin to a kind and loving family? The world at times, can see like a cold and lonely place, I remember a couple of posts about people decrying the lack of support they received. How would you respond to them? To one who feels so alone and desolate?
 
TheLittleLady said:
Right now, most Catholic schools cannot accept any special needs kids.
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That is a very important point.
JimG said:
Even if most parents send their children to Catholic schols, there will still be a number, and probably a large number of Catholic children who are going to public schools. And even in a stewardship diocese, there are many parents who are resistant to the idea of tithing 5% or 8% of gross income to their parish. So PSR and CCD teachers will be needed and most are volunteers.
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Bear in mind that 8% of gross income to the parish is not reasonable if the family has any other substantial giving going on.

My husband and I gave 10% of after-tax income for about 7 years. We had to stop that once the kids’ tuition got too high, but we never gave 8% to the parish. We would give more or less the same to our parishes and to the local Caritas, plus irregular amounts for private needs (like graduate student couples who just had a baby). I could not justify giving 8% of gross income to our parishes and not doing any other giving.
 
The problem is not that I don’t want to help the lonely and desolate.
The problem is that we are ALL going to have times when we feel lonely and desolate, and other people are just not acting as they should. Jesus himself had this occur in the Garden. His friends kept falling asleep.
People mean well, but they are often imperfect, self centered, stretched too thin, etc.

Catholicism is not about feeling supported by a community. I see it as being about feeling spiritually strong during miserable and lonely times. It is good when we can help people feel better, but it is unrealistic for someone to make that the focus of their faith life, because when they don’t get that help or those good feels, they leave.
 
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