Is it a mortal sin to lie and deny God at gunpoint to save ones life?

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humanavitae

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I know this is a hypothetical situation and will never occur…but the question is still interesting to think about.

What if while you are home with your spouse and kids, and someone breaks down your door and puts a gun to your head and tells you that he will shoot you unless you deny christ. What should one do at this point?

I know it is heroic and a form of martydom if one doesn’t lie…and instead witness to the faith at the expense of his/her life…
but the question is…is it a mortal sin to simply lie and give some lunatic “Lip Service” to so as to avoid getting shot in the head?

I know that NOT LYING to him would be witnessing to the truth…but is the crazy lunatic who barged into my house even worth proclaiming the truth at the expense of my life or the life of one of my family members? I don’t think so, however, I would like to know what the official catholic church teaching on this matter is.
 
I’ve thought about this, since i’m single, the decision would be easy.
Martyrdom. When you throw in a wife and kids, it gets sticky. I’m more
likely to try and take down the gunman, then deny Christ. The real question
would be what would you do if the gunman had your wife and/or kids at gunpoint.
I would probably go john mcclain/jack bower/terminator on the guy :D:D
I do think though that we should all be willing to be martyrs for our faith if
need be, but that’s easier said than done.
 
I would deny Christ. I know that doesn’t sound very Christian-like, but I’m just being honest. Someone puts a gun to my head I know I would go into survival mode and say whatever I have to.

Let the bashing commence.
 
humanavitae said:
I know this is a hypothetical situation and will never occur…but the question is still interesting to think about.

What if while you are home with your spouse and kids, and someone breaks down your door and puts a gun to your head and tells you that he will shoot you unless you deny christ. What should one do at this point?

I know it is heroic and a form of martydom if one doesn’t lie…and instead witness to the faith at the expense of his/her life…
but the question is…is it a mortal sin to simply lie and give some lunatic “Lip Service” to so as to avoid getting shot in the head?

I know that NOT LYING to him would be witnessing to the truth…but is the crazy lunatic who barged into my house even worth proclaiming the truth at the expense of my life or the life of one of my family members? I don’t think so, however, I would like to know what the official catholic church teaching on this matter is.
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No… in order to be a mortal sin you there are three requirements:
  1. It must be grave matter
  2. The person has Knowledge that it is wrong
  3. Full consent
If someone held a gun to your head, that would elimenate the full consent. But here is something to consider. What better way to die than to do so as a martyr for God?! We are going to eventually die someday, can you think of a better way to go? Don’t the martyrs go directly to Heaven?
 
What example would it give to your children if you were to deny Christ at threat of death?

Many early Christians, and many Christians around the world will today be tortured and killed for Christ. Pray God that I have the faith to join the martyrs should that crown ever be offered to me.
 
Obviously, denying Christ wouldn’t be a good thing and it would be the less heroic choice, but I doubt very much that it would qualify as a mortal sin given the force, extreme fear and lack of full consent of the will involved.

By the way, I believe something like this did happen in the Columbine shootings; at least two girls (Cassie Bernall and Val Schnurr) were asked by the gunmen if they believed in God, and shot when they said yes; Bernall died but Schnurr survived.

Another thing to keep in mind is that a situation like that, involving a lone crazed gunman, would be a one-time thing not likely to ever be repeated. Nor would giving in to the gunman in this case be likely to “inspire” anyone else to do the same thing.

But, in a situtation where Christians are being systematically hunted down and persecuted by their government or by an invading army with the intent of stamping out the faith, it would be different. In that case, I think there might be more of an obligation to stand up and fight back even to the point of death so that the persecutors are not emboldened to continue.
 
no, it wouldn’t be a mortal sin because full consent is lacking. It also wouldn’t be a lie because this crazy person with a gun to your head has no right to the truth, especially if they only intend on killing you if you answer them. as for the better thing to do I happen to think that choosing to live often times can be the braver and better thing to do. In this case you have a duty to protect your spouse and children and I think that choosing to live would be a difficult decision but ultimately the right thing to do.
 
humanavitae said:
I know this is a hypothetical situation and will never occur…but the question is still interesting to think about.

What if while you are home with your spouse and kids, and someone breaks down your door and puts a gun to your head and tells you that he will shoot you unless you deny christ. What should one do at this point?

I know it is heroic and a form of martydom if one doesn’t lie…and instead witness to the faith at the expense of his/her life…
but the question is…is it a mortal sin to simply lie and give some lunatic “Lip Service” to so as to avoid getting shot in the head?

I know that NOT LYING to him would be witnessing to the truth…but is the crazy lunatic who barged into my house even worth proclaiming the truth at the expense of my life or the life of one of my family members? I don’t think so, however, I would like to know what the official catholic church teaching on this matter is.
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The Martyrs didn’t deny Christ, even at worse of a situation to be turned to human torches, when it comes to another, I’m not so sure.

As for lying, it could be.

God Bless.

Chris.
 
That’s a very sticky question.

Obviously it seems wrong to deny Christ under any circumstance. It would seem that the best thing to do would be to accept death before denying Him. Though I think most people would deny Him for the sake of their own lives.

However I think another thing you have to think about is, if you have a spouse and kids, isn’t it perhaps true that not only do they need you, but God wants you to be there for them. If you were to die, yes you would have died heroically, but you also would be leaving a family behind, and who’s to say that the gunman wouldn’t kill your family after he killed you?

I think ultimately the thing I would do is to attempt to attack the gunman and take the gun from him. Obviously one can imagine a situation where this would be impossible (being tied up), but if it were that I think would be the best course of action.
 
Lorrie said:
I would deny Christ. I know that doesn’t sound very Christian-like, but I’m just being honest. Someone puts a gun to my head I know I would go into survival mode and say whatever I have to.

Let the bashing commence.
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I am not going to bash. Regadless of what we may say 99% of us would say whatever it took to keep from getting killed. And no i do not think it would be a mortal sin. You would not be dying for your faith if you refused to deny God-you would merely be acquiescing to the deranged mind of a homicidal sociopath.
 
Mortal sin, by definition cannot be coerced.

Chosing martyrdom would be heroic. We are not ALWAYS and in ALL situations required to take the heroic path of faith.

Good thing, because everybody here with a computer COULD have sold it and given the money to an on-fire catholic apostolate by now… 😉
 
Tietjen said:
No… in order to be a mortal sin you there are three requirements:
  1. It must be grave matter
  2. The person has Knowledge that it is wrong
  3. Full consent
If someone held a gun to your head, that would elimenate the full consent. But here is something to consider. What better way to die than to do so as a martyr for God?! We are going to eventually die someday, can you think of a better way to go? Don’t the martyrs go directly to Heaven?
Click to expand...
So you want to die simply because it’s matyrdom? That in itself doesn’t make it matyrdom, it seems more like you want to die in that situation to get status. That’s not what matyrdom is at all.

I think the response to the situation depends on the circumstances, I would do exactly as the gunman wanted if friends and family were around for their sake, not because I wanted to die a “matyr” and possibly have everyone die as matyrs too :rolleyes:

If it was only me, then I’d definitely try to take him out in whatever way possible, since I just don’t respond well to threats.
 
I don’t think we can be 100% sure how we would react to this situation.

Remember Peter? - who said he would never deny Christ? Amen I say to you, before the cock crows, you will deny me 3 times.

I would like to think I would pick martyrdom, but if my wife and kids were threatened too, my protectionist instincts would probably kick in.

And I agree that since the gun removes “full consent”, it is not a mortal sin. Just as contracts under duress are not enforceable.

John Marie Philomena
 
manualman said:
Mortal sin, by definition cannot be coerced.

Chosing martyrdom would be heroic. We are not ALWAYS and in ALL situations required to take the heroic path of faith.

Good thing, because everybody here with a computer COULD have sold it and given the money to an on-fire catholic apostolate by now… 😉
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So should we renounce Christ at every option?

God Bless.

Chris.
 
It’s unfortunate that the Books of the Maccabees are not widely or frequently read, because they contain the clear answer to this question. In the story of the old man who could have pretended to eat pork in order to save his life, we read that, out of concern for the example he would set to the young in so doing, he chose instead to be killed for not eating pork.

The woman with the seven sons preferred to see them and herself killed rather than deny what she knew to be true about God.

In the early Church, as well, when people were being dragged away to be eaten by lions, they excommunicated from the Church all those who came back from the arena alive, because they knew that those people had denied Christ in the arena.

The problem of what to do with the “lapsi,” as they were called, led to the form of the Sacrament of Reconciliation as we know it today - repentance was possible, but it was definitely considered a mortal sin.
 
The purpose of life, at least as we as Catholics understand it, is to know love and serve God in this life and be happy with Him in the next life.

So, if you KNOW absolutely that if you are martyred deliberately for expressing your love of God, you will be given an express path to happiness with God in the next life, then why would anyone deny God at gunpoint.

Besides, just the mechanics of a gunshot wound to the head, pain would take maybe a hundredth of a second to reach your brain whereas death would come instantly. So you wouldn’t feel any pain.

Witnessing your family (or another person being tortured) would increase the pain, but they would most likely be ushered to Heaven by the express lane.
 
I’ll take the red martrydom anyday. I wish the scenario the OP posted would happen to me.
 
jmcrae said:
It’s unfortunate that the Books of the Maccabees are not widely or frequently read, because they contain the clear answer to this question. In the story of the old man who could have pretended to eat pork in order to save his life, we read that, out of concern for the example he would set to the young in so doing, he chose instead to be killed for not eating pork.

The woman with the seven sons preferred to see them and herself killed rather than deny what she knew to be true about God.

In the early Church, as well, when people were being dragged away to be eaten by lions, they excommunicated from the Church all those who came back from the arena alive, because they knew that those people had denied Christ in the arena.

The problem of what to do with the “lapsi,” as they were called, led to the form of the Sacrament of Reconciliation as we know it today - repentance was possible, but it was definitely considered a mortal sin.
Click to expand...
So you make the decision for others’ lives because of what you believe to be true about God, so that’s the right decision?

Yea there’s your beautiful wife and kids and you don’t give them a chance to live because you want to proclaim God’s greatness :rolleyes: Very commendable, “because Maccabees says so”. I wouldn’t exactly blame people who chose not to be eaten by lions, lions aren’t exactly animals one wants to come face to face with. Why are you talking about the early church anyways? They themselves committed many atrocities to people, not that I want to forget the injustice done to Christians.
 
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