Is it a possibility that a validly baptized Catholic dies in the state of mortal sin and ends up in hell?

[Christian50]

The reason I ask the above question is to test my faith, as it is ordered by God in 2 Cor.13:5.

I’m a Catholic for the past two years.
Below is my understanding of this question, if this is not right, I welcome any corrections from the members of the CAF.

Thanking you in advance.

As follows I present my understanding.

There are two predestinations in Catholic theology.

A Tiptoe Through TULIP James Akin warns people: “One must define which kind of predestination is being discussed.”

According to RCC teaching:
Scripture Catholic by John Salza. (Well known Catholic Author and Apologist.)
III. Predestination and the “Elect”

Quote: “There are two types of predestination, grace (initial salvation) and to glory (final salvation). … Predestination is either to grace (initial salvation) which we could lose or to glory (final salvation) which we cannot lose. …
1 Tim.2:6 – Jesus Christ gave Himself as a ransom for all not just for the elect. But only those predestined to glory (final salvation) will be saved.” End quote. (In the brackets added.)

Those people who are predestined to grace, some period of their life are saved, they can commit mortal sins and by confession/absolution they are able to restore their salvation.
According to RCC teaching; all those people who are predestined to initial salvation/grace, all end up in hell, as it is described in the above quote from John Salza.

The following quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia explains the other predestination, the predestination to final salvation /heaven.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA. The predestination of the elect.

Quote: “Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has been irrevocably fixed from all eternity.
Nor could it be otherwise.
For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.” End quote.

As we see above; for those who are predestined to final salvation/Heaven to die in the state of mortal sin is an absolute impossibility.

No matter what trials they face, they will always preserve, so their salvation is ETERNALLY SECURE.

Every member from the entire human race who will end up in Heaven, they are among the people who are predestined to final salvation/Heaven.

If even just one person who is predestined to final salvation/Heaven would die in the state of mortal sin, then God would no longer be omniscient because He would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events.

Those who are predestined to final salvation/Heaven are having God’s ABSOLUTE protection that they all die in the state of grace.

A Tiptoe Through TULIP by James Akin

Quote: Trent’s Decree of Justification, canon 16, speaks of “That Great and Special Gift of Final Perseverance,” and chapter 13 of the decree speaks of “the gift of perseverance of which it is written:
‘He who perseveres to the end shall be saved [Matt. 10:22, 24:13],’
Which cannot be obtained from anyone except from Him who is able to make him who stands to stand [Rom. 14:4].”

AQUINAS said it ALWAYS saves a person because of THE KIND of grace it is; MOLINA said it ALWAYS saves a person because God only gives it to those whom he knows will respond to it. But the effect is the same: The gift of final perseverance ALWAYS works.

Catholics even have a special name for the GRACE God gives these people: “THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE.”

The Church FORMALLY teaches that there is a gift of final perseverance.
[43] AQUINAS (and even MOLINA) said this grace ALWAYS ensures that a person will persevere.

[44] AQUINAS said, “Predestination [to final salvation] MOST CERTAINLY and INFALLIBLY takes effect.”

AQUINAS said the gift of final perseverance is “the abiding in good TO THE END of life. End quote.

God’s gift of FINAL PERSEVERANCE is a divine assistance guiding and guarding the predestined to Heaven and always ensures the recipients that they die in the state of grace.

In Protestant theology there is only one predestination.
To use Catholic terminology: Their predestination is; predestination to final salvation/Heaven.

In Protestant theology there is only one predestination, predestination to final salvation/Heaven and the fact that the members of this predestination cannot end up in hell, gives the Protestants great confidence.

In Catholic theology there are two predestinations; one is to final salvation/Heaven and the other is to initial salvation/grace.
All those who are predestined to final salvation/Heaven end up in Heaven and all those who are predestined to initial salvation /grace end up in hell.

Continued

 

[clem456]

A good place to start:
Catechism of the Catholic Church
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm

ARTICLE 2
GRACE AND JUSTIFICATION

This is also relevant:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a4p2.htm

600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace: "In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place."395 For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.396

 

[Christian50]

Continuation

As long as the predestined to final salvation/Heaven and the predestined to initial salvation/grace, being both members the Body of Christ, which is the state of grace and it is the Church, they are both equal members.

The insecurity for us Catholics comes from; as long as we live on earth we don’t know we are among the predestined to final salvation/Heaven or we are among those who are predestined to initial salvation/grace.

So, as long as we live here on earth we cannot be sure that we will die in the state of grace and our destiny is in Heaven or we will die in the state of mortal sin and our destiny is in hell.

When I just recently read the following:

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR LEGISLATIVE TEXTS
ACTUS FORMALIS DEFECTIONIS AB ECCLESIA CATHOLICA
Vatican City, 13 March 2006 Prot. N. 10279/2006

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection. End quote.

I said; WOW!! … Nothing at all can remove a person from the BODY OF CHRIST (which is the STATE OF GRACE) and it is the CHURCH.

There is no predestination to initial salvation/grace any longer which leads to hell but only predestination to final salvation/Heaven.

Of course those who are rejecting the grace of God still end up in hell.

The PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR LEGISLATIVE TEXTS
ACTUS FORMALIS DEFECTIONIS AB ECCLESIA CATHOLICA
transformed the predestination to initial salvation/grace to predestination to final salvation/Heaven.

I believe the interpretation of any Bible verses which contradicts the PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR LEGISLATIVE TEXTS
ACTUS FORMALIS DEFECTIONIS AB ECCLESIA CATHOLICA are false interpretations.

As I stated above, for the following reasons, I also believe:

The BODY OF CHRIST is the STATE OF GRACE and it is the CHURCH.

1. Ordinarily we enter the state of grace through baptism which is the Body of Christ the Church.

The Body of Christ is the state of grace. – Biblical confirmation:

1. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace. (Eph.1:7)
2. Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. (Rom.3:24)
3. Rom.8:1-2 (NIV)
   “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life made me free from the law of sin and death.”

Rom.8:1-2 (Jerusalem Bible)
“The reason, therefore, why those who are in Christ Jesus are not condemned, is that the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death.”

1. “It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection.”

a. For the above reasons I believe: Every person who have been baptized into the Body of Christ have been predestined to Heaven and they are all recipients of GOD’S GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE.

b. God’s gift of FINAL PERSEVERANCE is a divine assistance guiding and guarding the predestined to Heaven and always ensures the recipients that they die in the state of grace.

The power of perseverance is neither in the human will alone nor in God’s grace solely, but in the combination of both, i.e., Divine grace aiding human will, and human will co-operating with Divine grace.

[CCC 600] “To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of predestination, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace.” End quote.

“For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.”

God bless.

Christian

 

[phil19034]

Hello -
You have posted a lot of different texts from several different sources. Many of them are translations and may have different contexts.

I’m going to attempt to sum it up short and sweet (and perhaps not 100% theological sound, but good enough for the average laymen)

Some people are predestined for Heaven. Very few. Mary for one. Perhaps all the others are children who die before the age of reason (miscarriages, baby deaths, abortions, etc), plus those with mental handicaps who never achieve reason. Perhaps these people are the only ones predestined (plus the few people God uses, like Mary), and the rest of us who reach adulthood are not predestined (again except those like Mary that God has chosen for special reasons).

The rest of us receive Grace and must work to keep our Grace.

But no one is predestined to hell. God wants us all to be with Him in Heaven. However, He also gave us free will. If we go to hell, it’s because we put ourselves there, not God. God does not predestine anyone to hell. We make the choice.

God just knows what we will do because He is outside of time.

I hope this is helpful.

God Bless.

 

[Carmelite1]

Is predestination thinking really being taught in RCIA classes? I was frightened by that post; but thankfully, a clearer head posted a response. Thank you. Phil.

 

[Petaro]

Sometimes the vast array of doctrinal documents and expositions by varied sources across the Centuries can confuse the righteous searcher. Perhaps you could be assisted by a learned Spiritual Adviser.

 

[rcwitness]

To answer directly, Baptism is not a Once Saved Always Saved grace. It is the washing away of guilt on the human conscience and thus bringing the peace of Christ to an individual. Its not magic and still requires formation, faith and conversion of heart. That doesnt mean that the Baptism was lacking, but that the growth of the Christian requires spiritual food.

There is a Catholic view of predestination and non Catholic view’s, such as Calvanist’s.

If im not mistaken, the Catholic view comes from St Augustine. And as someone referenced, this is God working outside of time, knowing the consentual act in the persons free will. Yet even this never rejects the grace from God to move any given person to conversion.

I personally think everything is predestined in some capacity, but certainly not against our wills nor is it ever God’s desire, attempt or due to lack of effort from Him that some reject Him. John the Baptist and Mary are probably the great examples of a predestined person in His plan. Perhaps even Paul too. These were given a great grace, which St Augustine may have described as irresistable, as so their inspiration was great.

 

[Christian50]

Hello everyone,

I feel in my above post I didn’t explain predestination to grace (initial salvation).
As follows, I try to correct it.

Scripture Catholic by John Salza. (Well known Catholic Author and Apologist.)
III. Predestination and the “Elect”

Quote: “There are two types of predestination, grace (initial salvation) and to glory (final salvation/heaven). … Predestination is either to grace (initial salvation) which we could lose or to glory (final salvation/heaven) which we cannot lose. …
1 Tim.2:6 – Jesus Christ gave Himself as a ransom for all not just for the elect. But only those predestined to glory (final salvation/heaven) will be saved.” End quote. (In the brackets added.)

A Tiptoe Through TULIP by James Akin

Quote: If one is predestined to be saved, does it not follow he must persevere to the end?

This involves a confusion about what people are predestined to: Is it predestination to initial salvation or final salvation?

The two are not the same.
A person might be predestined to one, but this does not mean he is predestined necessarily to the other. [38]

One must define which kind of predestination is being discussed.
If one is talking about predestination to initial salvation, then the fact that a person will come to God does not of itself mean he will stay with God.

If one is talking about predestination to final salvation, then a predestined person will stay with God, but this does not mean the predestined are the only ones who experience initial salvation.

Some might genuinely come to God (because they were predestined to initial salvation) and then genuinely leave (because they were not predestined to final salvation). [39]

Either way, predestination to initial salvation does not entail predestination to final salvation. [40] There is no reason why a person cannot be predestined to “believe for a while” but “in time of temptation fall away” (Luke 8:13). End quote.

Those people who are predestined to grace, some period of their life are saved.

According to RCC teaching; all those people who are predestined to initial salvation/grace, all ends up in hell, as it is described in the above quote from John Salza.

I have to emphasize: Predestination to grace (initial salvation) is NOT a predestination to hell, even all predestined to grace (initial salvation) ends up in hell.

I agree with you Phil. “But no one is predestined to hell. God wants us all to be with Him in Heaven. However, He also gave us free will. If we go to hell, it’s because we put ourselves there, not God. God does not predestine anyone to hell. We make the choice.”

God bless.

Christian

 

[sarah_j]

“Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, “He who endures to the end will be saved” (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.”
catholic.com/tracts/assurance-of-salvation

It is mind-boggling, but as I understand it, God knows what we will choose
(whether to accept His grace or not)…but His knowledge of what choice we will make doesn’t
predestine us towards one decision or the other. God doesn’t exist in time
in the same way we do…He is always in the past, present, and future at once.

 

[John_Martin]

You pay too much attention to the term predestination - that term is not for all people but for specially called people who were needed to actually place salvation and grace into the world where we could participate in it. These would include people like Jacob, Samuel, David, Mary, Jesus, the Apostles, etc. With them, there is grace present for all in the world that can be given to all.

You may want to pay attention instead to whose name is written in the Book of Life. The Predestined are written there “simply”, and cannot be removed. Those who by Grace have come to Faith and move through life in that Faith are written in the Book of Life “relatively” - they can be removed by mortal sin where they, in effect, remove themselves.

You can read detail about this from Thomas Aquinas in his Summa here: ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa.FP_Q24_A3.html
Here is an excerpt:

For the book of life is the inscription of those ordained to eternal life, to which one is directed from two sources; namely, from predestination, which direction never fails, and from grace; for whoever has grace, by this very fact becomes fitted for eternal life. This direction fails sometimes; because some are directed by possessing grace, to obtain eternal life, yet they fail to obtain it through mortal sin. Therefore those who are ordained to possess eternal life through divine predestination are written down in the book of life simply, because they are written therein to have eternal life in reality; such are never blotted out from the book of life. Those, however, who are ordained to eternal life, not through divine predestination, but through grace, are said to be written in the book of life not simply, but relatively, for they are written therein not to have eternal life in itself, but in its cause only. Yet though these latter can be said to be blotted out of the book of life, this blotting out must not be referred to God, as if God foreknew a thing, and afterwards knew it not; but to the thing known, namely, because God knows one is first ordained to eternal life, and afterwards not ordained when he falls from grace.

 

[Hodegetria]

The simple answer to your question posted in the thread title:

YES, a validly baptized Catholic can certainly end up in hell by dying in a state of mortal sin.

It happens far too often. I think it was Saint Faustina who said she saw ‘souls falling into hell like snowflakes’, mostly from “sins of the flesh”. (Someone please correct me if I have the wrong saint.)

I understand the idea of Catholic predestination – all well and good-- God *of course *knows who will be in heaven at the end. WE are the ones who don’t know, therefore, WE cannot take the chance of ever being in a state of mortal sin! To do so is gambling with out eternal souls. I know I’m not alone when I say I can’t stand not being in a state of grace.

I agree with poster John Martin. Don’t get so hung up on terms. Pray that your name is in the Book of Life, repent, get to confession whenever you need it, receive the sacraments and pray often.

You can never assume you are saved. That’s a trick of the devil. I was just reading how one if his favorite tricks is the “once saved, always saved” fallacy.

 

[truetofaith]

I grew weary reading your question…so I just skimmed through it.

All I know is…the Catholic Church does not believe in Predestination. Being baptized or confessing your sins does not guarantee anyone a place in heaven.

The devil is always lurking around to tempt us to sin, and if we die without confessing those sins, at least to God, on our deathbed, we will merit hell. :imsorry:

 

[thistle]

The simple answer to your question posted in the thread title:

YES,** a validly baptized Catholic can certainly end up in hell by dying in a state of mortal sin. **

It happens far too often. I think it was Saint Faustina who said she saw ‘souls falling into hell like snowflakes’, mostly from “sins of the flesh”. (Someone please correct me if I have the wrong saint.)

I understand the idea of Catholic predestination – all well and good-- God *of course *knows who will be in heaven at the end. WE are the ones who don’t know, therefore, WE cannot take the chance of ever being in a state of mortal sin! To do so is gambling with out eternal souls. I know I’m not alone when I say I can’t stand not being in a state of grace.

I agree with poster John Martin. Don’t get so hung up on terms. Pray that your name is in the Book of Life, repent, get to confession whenever you need it, receive the sacraments and pray often.

You can never assume you are saved. That’s a trick of the devil. I was just reading how one if his favorite tricks is the “once saved, always saved” fallacy.

Not can but will. Any Catholic dying in a state of mortal sin WILL go immediately to Hell. That is an infallible teaching of the Church.

 

[thenobes]

Christian50,

I think the problems lies in one’s understanding of the following:

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR LEGISLATIVE TEXTS
ACTUS FORMALIS DEFECTIONIS AB ECCLESIA CATHOLICA
Vatican City, 13 March 2006 Prot. N. 10279/2006

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection.

If one interprets “belonging to” as meaning “being an equal member of” then one could arrive at your conclusion. However, if one interprets “belonging to” as meaning “being the possession of”, then one can infer that not all who are thus possessed made be used equally. Indeed, one person may be actively resisting the right of the possessor, that is Christ, to direct its use.

Only the person who allows the Life of Christ to live in him is a person who is “in Christ”.

Being a member of the Body of Christ is not the same as belonging to it. One can belong to the Body of Christ but, by his actions, cut himself of from the life of Christ and become Dead, and not be “in Christ”. One has sacramentally given himself to Christ for His possession through baptism, but is not a member.

Thus your conclusion:

Nothing at all can remove a person from the BODY OF CHRIST (which is the STATE OF GRACE) and it is the CHURCH.

would be incorrect in that Mortal Sin has removed him as a member, even though he has pledged himself to belong to Christ

peace
steve.

 

[Christian50]

You pay too much attention to the term predestination - that term is not for all people but for specially called people who were needed to actually place salvation and grace into the world where we could participate in it. These would include people like Jacob, Samuel, David, Mary, Jesus, the Apostles, etc. With them, there is grace present for all in the world that can be given to all.

You may want to pay attention instead to whose name is written in the Book of Life. The Predestined are written there “simply”, and cannot be removed. Those who by Grace have come to Faith and move through life in that Faith are written in the Book of Life “relatively” - they can be removed by mortal sin where they, in effect, remove themselves.

You can read detail about this from Thomas Aquinas in his Summa here: ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa.FP_Q24_A3.html
Here is an excerpt:

Hello John,
Thank you for your reply.

The way I understand the key points of your post John:

1. Only for specially called people are predestined to Heaven.
2. Their names are written there “simply”, and cannot be removed.
3. The rest of the people given grace and up to them to make it to Heaven or hell.

I don’t feel point 1 and point 3 fits into God’s pattern of salvation.

I believe, according to God’s pattern of salvation; everyone whose names left in the “Book of Life” (elect), after the names of the reprobates taken out, they are all predestined to heaven and they are all end up in heaven.

Their salvation is protected by God’s gift of final perseverance and not even one of the predestined to Heaven dies in the state of mortal sin.

As follows, the Word of God and the teaching of the RCC proves the above statement is correct.

ARE ALL TRUE CHRISTIANS PREDESTINED TO PERSEVERE? by James Akin

Quote: St. Thomas Aquinas, In his Summa Theologiae he wrote:
[P]erseverance is called he abiding in GOOD to the END of life.

And in order to have this perseverance man . . . NEEDS the divine assistance GUIDING him and GUARDING him against the attacks of the passions . . . And hence after anyone has been JUSTIFIED BY GRACE, he still needs to beseech God for the aforesaid GIFT OF PERSEVERANCE, that he may be kept from evil TILL the END of his life. (ST IIa:109:10)

This same teaching was infallibly taught by the Council of Trent after the Protestant Reformation. End quote. (Emphasize mine.)

A Tiptoe Through TULIP by James Akin

Quote: Trent’s Decree of Justification, canon 16, speaks of “That Great and Special Gift of Final Perseverance,” and chapter 13 of the decree speaks of “the gift of perseverance of which it is written:
‘He who perseveres to the end shall be saved [Matt. 10:22, 24:13],’
Which cannot be obtained from anyone except from Him who is able to make him who stands to stand [Rom. 14:4].”

AQUINAS said it ALWAYS saves a person because of THE KIND of grace it is; MOLINA said it ALWAYS saves a person because God only gives it to those whom he knows will respond to it. But the effect is the same: The gift of final perseverance ALWAYS works.

Catholics even have a special name for the GRACE God gives these people: “THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE.”

The Church FORMALLY teaches that there is a gift of final perseverance.
[43] AQUINAS (and even MOLINA) said this grace ALWAYS ensures that a person will persevere.

[44] AQUINAS said, “Predestination [to final salvation] MOST CERTAINLY and INFALLIBLY takes effect.”

AQUINAS said the gift of final perseverance is “the abiding in good TO THE END of life. End quote.

The power of perseverance is neither in the human will alone nor in God’s grace solely, but in the combination of both, i.e., Divine grace aiding human will, and human will co-operating with Divine grace.

God’s gift of FINAL PERSEVERANCE is a divine assistance guiding and guarding the predestined to Heaven and always ensures the recipients that they die in the state of grace. – This is an infallible teaching of the Church.

Without God’s Gift of final perseverance the Christians end up in hell.

PROOF:

Scripture Catholic by John Salza. (Well known Catholic Author and Apologist.)
III. Predestination and the “Elect”

Quote: “There are two types of predestination, grace (initial salvation) and to glory (final salvation). … Predestination is either to grace (initial salvation) which we could lose or to glory (final salvation) which we cannot lose. …

1 Tim.2:6 – Jesus Christ gave Himself as a ransom for all not just for the elect.
But only those predestined to glory (final salvation) will be saved.” End quote. (In the brackets added.)

Continued

 

[Christian50]

Continuation

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR LEGISLATIVE TEXTS
ACTUS FORMALIS DEFECTIONIS AB ECCLESIA CATHOLICA

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection. End quote.

I believe the ACTUS FORMALIS DEFECTIONIS AB ECCLESIA CATHOLICA transformed the predestination to initial salvation/grace to predestination to final salvation/Heaven.

My reasons to believe it:

1. After the completion of the “Book of Life,” the “Book of Life” admits neither additions nor erasures.
2. If the predestined to grace (initial salvation) end up in hell; before the completion of the “Book of Life,” their names must be erased from the “Book of Life”.
   The “Book of life” is completed before founding of the world, before times eternal. – Eph.1:4; 2 Tim.1:9;
3. The predestined to grace (initial salvation) could not be saved even for one minute without their name is written in the “Book of Life” and they baptized into the Body of Christ, which is the state of grace.
4. If they baptized into the Body of Christ which is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection, they would stay in the Body of Christ on earth and in Heaven for eternity. – To enter into the Body of Christ, which is the state of grace is a one way street.
   Infallible protected by God’s SPECIAL GRACE, called “THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE.”

St. Thomas Aquinas, In his Summa Theologiae he wrote:
Quote: [P]erseverance is called he abiding in GOOD to the END of life. End quote.

1. God’s pattern of salvation, His “Book of Life,” His baptism into the Body of Christ and His predestination, does not permits that His predestined end up in hell, unless they are predestined to hell.
   We all know God predestines no one to hell.
2. According to the above evidences, I must conclude:
   There is only one type of predestination. Predestination to glory (final salvation/Heaven) which we cannot lose.

To understand God’s PATTERN of salvation, it is beneficial to understand the “Book of Life” and God’s predestination.

Rev.13:8 and Rev 17:8; Eph.1:4; 2 Tim.1:9; and [CCC 600] helps us to understand the “Book of Life.”

[CCC 600] “To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of predestination, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace.” End quote.

Before founding of the world, before times eternal;
God by blotting out the names of the reprobates from the “Book of life” He has completed the “Book of Life.”

In effect, the reprobates by their rejection of the grace of God, they removed themselves from the “Book of Life.”

God has predestined the rest of the people, those whose name left in the “Book of Life” to heaven (called elects).

From the completion of the “Book of life,” the “Book of Life” admits neither additions nor erasures.

Of course for our understanding, when God tells us something connected with the “Book of life” He speaks to us in our human chronological order. For example: Ex.32:32-33; Rev.3:5; etc…

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA. The predestination of the elect.

Quote: “Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has been irrevocably fixed from all eternity.
Nor could it be otherwise.

For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.”

God’s unerring foreknowledge and foreordaining is designated in the Bible by the beautiful figure of the “Book of Life” (liber vitæ, to biblion tes zoes). This book of life is a list which contains the names of all the elect and admits neither additions nor erasures.

(2) The second quality of predestination, the definiteness of the number of the elect, follows naturally from the first. For if the eternal counsel of God regarding THE PREDESTINED IS UNCHANGEABLE, then the number of the predestined must likewise be unchangeable and definite, subject neither to additions nor to cancellations.

Anything INDEFINITE in the number would EO IPSO imply a lack of certitude in God’s knowledge and would destroy His omniscience.
Furthermore, the very nature of omniscience demands that not only the abstract number of the elect, but also the individuals with their names and their entire career on earth, should be present before the Divine mind from all eternity. End quote. Emphasize added.

Anyone reading the above theological facts could infallible conclude:
Easier to come out from a cosmic black hole then to come out from the Body of Christ which is the state of grace.

Continued

 

[Christian50]

Continuation

As we see in the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA:

Every member who ends up in heaven, have been PREDESTINED TO HEAVEN.
Their salvation is eternally secure.

To lose it by dying in the state of mortal sin is a THEOLOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY.

Furthermore they are all recipients of God’s IRREVOCABLE gifts as follows:

1. God’s gift of formed faith before Baptism.

The composite of God’s gift of formed faith:

a. BELIEF (Unconditional BELIEF in what God says.)

b. HOPE (Unconditional TRUST in God.)

c. CHARITY (Unconditional LOVE for God.)

d. Baptism of desire.

1. God’s great and special gift of final perseverance at baptism.
2. God’s gift of salvation at baptism. – Eph.2:8.
3. God’s gift of eternal life at baptism. – Rom.6:23b
4. Different spiritual gifts of God at baptism or any time after.

CCC 1994 Justification is *the most excellent work of God’s love *made manifest in Christ Jesus and granted by the Holy Spirit. It is the opinion of St. Augustine that “the justification of the wicked is a greater work than the creation of heaven and earth,” because "HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL PASS AWAY BUT THE SALVATION AND JUSTIFICATION OF THE ELECT WILL NOT PASS AWAY."43 He holds also that the justification of sinners surpasses the creation of the angels in justice, in that it bears witness to a greater mercy. Emphasize added.

The PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR LEGISLATIVE TEXTS
sums up the above teaching of the RCC.

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR LEGISLATIVE TEXTS
ACTUS FORMALIS DEFECTIONIS AB ECCLESIA CATHOLICA
Vatican City, 13 March 2006 Prot. N. 10279/2006

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection. End quote.

Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts is part of the Roman Curia. The Roman Curia is charged with helping the Pope in his governance and oversight of the Roman Catholic Church.

Conclusion from the above quotes of the teaching of the RCC, in particular from the Pontifical Council For Legislative Texts, Actus Formalis Defectionis Ab Ecclesia Catholica:

Our baptism into the Body Of Christ which is the state of grace, is an ontological and permanent bond.

Infallible protected by God’s SPECIAL GRACE, called “THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE.”

According to God’s pattern of salvation; everyone whose names left in the “Book of Life” (called elect), after the names of the reprobates taken out, they are ALL predestined to heaven and they are ALL end up in heaven.

How could anyone lose his salvation, when God baptizes only His elect, (predestined to heaven) into the Body of Christ.

If even only one predestined to heaven would die in the state of mortal sin and end up in hell, God would no longer be omniscient.

Probably CCC 1994 gives us one of the shortest and nicest sounding guarantee of our ETERNALLY SECURE salvation:
Justification is the MOST EXCELLENT WORK OF GOD’S LOVE …Heaven and earth will pass away but the salvation and justification of the elect (members of the Body of Christ) will not pass away.

Above is my understanding of the thread title question, if this is not right, I welcome any corrections/comments from the members of the CAF.

Thanking you in advance.

God bless.

Christian

 

[Christian50]

Above is my understanding of the thread title question, if this is not right, I welcome any corrections/comments from the members of the CAF.

Thanking you in advance.

God bless.

Christian

Above is my understanding of the thread title question, I welcome any corrections/comments from the members of the CAF.

Thanking you in advance.

God bless.

Christian

 

[Christian50]

A good place to start:
Catechism of the Catholic Church
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm

This is also relevant:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a4p2.htm

Hello Clem and everyone in the CAF,

Thank you for your post it was helpful.

If you read my posts # 15, #16, and #17, in the light of those quotes from Catholic teaching, do you have an opinion about the answer of my thread title question?

I welcome the opinions corrections and comments from any member of the CAF who read my posts # 15, #16, and #17.

Thanking you in advance.

God bless.

Christian

 

[clem456]

Hello Clem and everyone in the CAF,

Thank you for your post it was helpful.

If you read my posts # 15, #16, and #17, in the light of those quotes from Catholic teaching, do you have an opinion about the answer of my thread title question?

I welcome the opinions corrections and comments from any member of the CAF who read my posts # 15, #16, and #17.

Thanking you in advance.

God bless.

Christian

It’s not just a possibility, it’s a certainty that a person who dies a natural death in a dead (mortal) spiritual state is by definition, dead (mort…)
Those who don’t have life in God are not in heaven.

Baptism doesn’t negate a person’s free choice.