Is it a possibility that a validly baptized Catholic dies in the state of mortal sin and ends up in hell?

[Hodegetria]

Hello Clem and everyone in the CAF,

Thank you for your post it was helpful.

If you read my posts # 15, #16, and #17, in the light of those quotes from Catholic teaching, do you have an opinion about the answer of my thread title question?

I welcome the opinions corrections and comments from any member of the CAF who read my posts # 15, #16, and #17.

Thanking you in advance.

God bless.

Christian

I can’t really read and comprehend all the stuff you posted, because it seems to be interspersed with your own opinions, questions and comments.

If it’s from the CCC, then it is authentic Catholic teaching; my comment is that I believe it 100%. IMO there’s no need for corrections and/or opinions, it is the truth and teaching of the Church.

In answer to your title question: YES. And not just a possibility, but a certainty that a person dying with unconfessed mortal sin goes to hell.

 

[steve_b]

The reason I ask the above question is to test my faith, as it is ordered by God in 2 Cor.13:5.

I’m a Catholic for the past two years.
Below is my understanding of this question, if this is not right, I welcome any corrections from the members of the CAF.

Thanking you in advance.

As follows I present my understanding.

There are two predestinations in Catholic theology.

A Tiptoe Through TULIP James Akin warns people: “One must define which kind of predestination is being discussed.”

According to RCC teaching:
Scripture Catholic by John Salza. (Well known Catholic Author and Apologist.)
III. Predestination and the “Elect”

Quote: “There are two types of predestination, grace (initial salvation) and to glory (final salvation). … Predestination is either to grace (initial salvation) which we could lose or to glory (final salvation) which we cannot lose. …
1 Tim.2:6 – Jesus Christ gave Himself as a ransom for all not just for the elect. But only those predestined to glory (final salvation) will be saved.” End quote. (In the brackets added.)

Those people who are predestined to grace, some period of their life are saved, they can commit mortal sins and by confession/absolution they are able to restore their salvation.
According to RCC teaching; all those people who are predestined to initial salvation/grace, all end up in hell, as it is described in the above quote from John Salza.

The following quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia explains the other predestination, the predestination to final salvation /heaven.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA. The predestination of the elect.

Quote: “Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has been irrevocably fixed from all eternity.
Nor could it be otherwise.
For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.” End quote.

As we see above; for those who are predestined to final salvation/Heaven to die in the state of mortal sin is an absolute impossibility.

No matter what trials they face, they will always preserve, so their salvation is ETERNALLY SECURE.

Every member from the entire human race who will end up in Heaven, they are among the people who are predestined to final salvation/Heaven.

If even just one person who is predestined to final salvation/Heaven would die in the state of mortal sin, then God would no longer be omniscient because He would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events.

Those who are predestined to final salvation/Heaven are having God’s ABSOLUTE protection that they all die in the state of grace.

A Tiptoe Through TULIP by James Akin

Quote: Trent’s Decree of Justification, canon 16, speaks of “That Great and Special Gift of Final Perseverance,” and chapter 13 of the decree speaks of “the gift of perseverance of which it is written:
‘He who perseveres to the end shall be saved [Matt. 10:22, 24:13],’
Which cannot be obtained from anyone except from Him who is able to make him who stands to stand [Rom. 14:4].”

AQUINAS said it ALWAYS saves a person because of THE KIND of grace it is; MOLINA said it ALWAYS saves a person because God only gives it to those whom he knows will respond to it. But the effect is the same: The gift of final perseverance ALWAYS works.

Catholics even have a special name for the GRACE God gives these people: “THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE.”

The Church FORMALLY teaches that there is a gift of final perseverance.
[43] AQUINAS (and even MOLINA) said this grace ALWAYS ensures that a person will persevere.

[44] AQUINAS said, “Predestination [to final salvation] MOST CERTAINLY and INFALLIBLY takes effect.”

AQUINAS said the gift of final perseverance is “the abiding in good TO THE END of life. End quote.

God’s gift of FINAL PERSEVERANCE is a divine assistance guiding and guarding the predestined to Heaven and always ensures the recipients that they die in the state of grace.

In Protestant theology there is only one predestination.
To use Catholic terminology: Their predestination is; predestination to final salvation/Heaven.

In Protestant theology there is only one predestination, predestination to final salvation/Heaven and the fact that the members of this predestination cannot end up in hell, gives the Protestants great confidence.

In Catholic theology there are two predestinations; one is to final salvation/Heaven and the other is to initial salvation/grace.
All those who are predestined to final salvation/Heaven end up in Heaven and all those who are predestined to initial salvation /grace end up in hell.

Continued

The answer to your question is yes. 1035

As a suggestion, stop reading about predestination from protestants.

God predesrtines no one to hell. (that’s called double predestination , a heresy)

God sees the choices a person will make till the end. God’s desire is for all to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth [1 Timothy 2:4](1 - - Bible Gateway Timothy+2:4&version=RSVCE) But He doesn’t force a person to make the choices they make.

 

[thistle]

Hello Clem and everyone in the CAF,

Thank you for your post it was helpful.

If you read my posts # 15, #16, and #17, in the light of those quotes from Catholic teaching, do you have an opinion about the answer of my thread title question?

I welcome the opinions corrections and comments from any member of the CAF who read my posts # 15, #16, and #17.

Thanking you in advance.

God bless.

Christian

It is the infallible teaching of the Church, clear and unambiguous that anyone dying in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell.

CCC 1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

 

[Ignatius]

Christian50, TULIP does not contradict Muslim theology. So, is it possible that a Baptist who becomes a Muslim can go to hell since he has faith in the TULIP Dogma?

 

[Christian50]

Christian50, TULIP does not contradict Muslim theology. So, is it possible that a Baptist who becomes a Muslim can go to hell since he has faith in the TULIP Dogma?

Hello Ignatius,

I’m not exactly understand the question.
As far as I know, Christianity is contradict Muslim theology.
People end up in hell for their rejection of the grace of God.

What I know is: If a Baptist end up in hell he newer was a Baptist
because he never was among the predestined to Heaven.
This is above Catholic teaching.

God bless.

Chistian

 

[rcwitness]

Hello Ignatius,

I’m not exactly understand the question.
As far as I know, Christianity is contradict Muslim theology.
People end up in hell for their rejection of the grace of God.

What I know is: If a Baptist end up in hell he newer was a Baptist
because he never was among the predestined to Heaven.
This is above Catholic teaching.

God bless.

Chistian

Is a Baptist a true Baptist if he/she says a Catholic who follows the Teachings of the Church in their heart and deeds is not saved?

 

[Christian50]

Is a Baptist a true Baptist if he/she says a Catholic who follows the Teachings of the Church in their heart and deeds is not saved?

Hello Rcwitness,

In my opinion:

a. If a Baptist is among the predestined to Heaven and he/she says a Catholic who follows the Teachings of the Church in their heart and deeds is not saved, he/she is still a true Baptist. – We are not yet perfect.

b. If a Baptist is not among the predestined to Heaven and he/she says a Catholic who follows the Teachings of the Church in their heart and deeds is saved, he/she is still not a true Baptist.

God bless.

Christian

 

[thistle]

Hello Rcwitness,

In my opinion:

a. If a Baptist is among the predestined to Heaven and he/she says a Catholic who follows the Teachings of the Church in their heart and deeds is not saved, he/she is still a true Baptist. – We are not yet perfect.

b. If a Baptist is not among the predestined to Heaven and he/she says a Catholic who follows the Teachings of the Church in their heart and deeds is saved, he/she is still not a true Baptist.

God bless.

Christian

Can you give us a list of who is predestined to Heaven?

 

[rcwitness]

Hello Rcwitness,

In my opinion:

a. If a Baptist is among the predestined to Heaven and he/she says a Catholic who follows the Teachings of the Church in their heart and deeds is not saved, he/she is still a true Baptist. – We are not yet perfect.

b. If a Baptist is not among the predestined to Heaven and he/she says a Catholic who follows the Teachings of the Church in their heart and deeds is saved, he/she is still not a true Baptist.

God bless.

Christian

Well, thanks for your opinion. Seems like the predestined, according to you, dont really show much difference in their words from the damned.

I would hope that Jesus predestined these for this “not yet perfect” comment that a Catholic following the Teachings of the Church in their hearts and deeds cannot be saved, to repent so their false witness can be made clean.

 

[Christian50]

It’s not just a possibility, it’s a certainty that a person who dies a natural death in a dead (mortal) spiritual state is by definition, dead (mort…)
Those who don’t have life in God are not in heaven.

Baptism doesn’t negate a person’s free choice.

Hello Clem and everyone in the CAF,

Thank you for your post.

I agree with your post.

It seems like my posts # 15, #16, and #17, wasn’t clear enough as not everyone understand it.

I will make them clearer and updated them with more information I get from further study on the subject from RCC teachings.

I will post them around the end of the week.

God bless.

Christian

 

[thistle]

Hello Clem and everyone in the CAF,

Thank you for your post.

I agree with your post.

It seems like my posts # 15, #16, and #17, wasn’t clear enough as not everyone understand it.

I will make them clearer and updated them with more information I get from further study on the subject from RCC teachings.

I will post them around the end of the week.

God bless.

Christian

You still have not responded to my post asking for a list of those predestined to Heaven.

 

[Christian50]

You still have not responded to my post asking for a list of those predestined to Heaven.

Hello Thistle,

I work on it and I will post it probably in the middle of next week.

God Bless.

Christian

 

[Christian50]

It’s not just a possibility, it’s a certainty that a person who dies a natural death in a dead (mortal) spiritual state is by definition, dead (mort…)
Those who don’t have life in God are not in heaven.

Baptism doesn’t negate a person’s free choice.

Hello Clem and everyone in the CAF,

Thank you for your post and the posts of the other members of the CAF. I will try to answer all replies.

The fact; your above post and my posts # 15, #16, #17 is in total harmony with each other without any contradiction.
I believe everything what you have written Clem.

The problem is, my posts # 15, #16, #17 are not clear enough.

As follows I did redo my posts; by focusing only on God’s pattern of salvation and following only one line.

In order to understand the teaching on salvation, we must understand God’s PATTERN of salvation.

The COMPOSITE or BUILDING BLOCKS of God’s pattern of salvation:

1. The “Book of Life.”
2. God’s predestination.
3. Baptism.
4. God’s IRREVACABLE gifts given to His elects.
5. God’s infallible protection of the Body of Christ which made up with His elect.

If we don’t understand each part of the building block of God’s pattern of salvation separately, then we cannot understand God’s pattern of salvation as a whole.

For easier understanding I post each building block of the pattern of salvation in a separate post.

Continued

 

[Christian50]

Continuation

1. THE “BOOK OF LIFE.”

Concerning THE “BOOK OF LIFE,” in our mission work we might need to know the answer to the following questions:

a. What is the “Book of Life”?

b. When was the “Book of Life” completed by God?

c. Does the “Book of Life” admits additions or erasures after it was completed?

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA. The predestination of the elect.

Quote: God’s unerring foreknowledge and foreordaining is designated in the Bible by the beautiful figure of the “Book of Life” (liber vitæ, to biblion tes zoes).

This book of life is a LIST which CONTAINS ALL THE NAMES OF THE ELECT and admits NEITHER additions NOR erasures. End quote. Emphasize added.

[CCC 600] “To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of predestination, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace.” End quote.

Rev.13:8 and Rev 17:8; Eph.1:4; 2 Tim.1:9; and [CCC 600] helps us to understand the “Book of Life.”

God has completed the “Book of Life” before founding of the world, before times eternal; by blotting out the names of the reprobates from the “Book of life” as it is described in [CCC 600].

From the completion of the “Book of Life,” the “Book of Life” admits neither additions nor erasures.

Of course for our understanding, when God tells us something connected with the “Book of Life” He speaks to us in our human chronological order. For example: Ex.32:32-33; Rev.3:5; etc…

In effect, the reprobates by their rejection of the grace of God, they removed themselves from the “Book of Life.”

KEY POINTS to understand the “Book of Life”:

Question: What is the “Book of Life”?

Answer: The “Book of Life” is a LIST which contains ALL the names of the ELECT.

Question: When was the “Book of Life” completed by God?

Answer: The “Book of Life” was completed by God before founding of the world, before times eternal.

Question: Does the “Book of Life” admits additions or erasures after it was completed?

Answer: From the completion of the “Book of Life,” the “Book of Life” admits neither additions nor erasures.

Continued

 

[Christian50]

Continuation

1. GOD’S PREDESTINATION.

Concerning GOD’S PREDESTINATION, in our mission work we might need to know the answer to the following questions:

a. Whom God has predestined to Heaven?

b. Is it a possibility that someone predestined to Heaven ends up in hell?

c. What would happen if a predestined to heaven would die in the state of mortal sin and ends up in hell?

God has completed the “Book of Life” before founding of the world, before times eternal; by blotting out the names of the reprobates from the “Book of Life” as it is described in [CCC 600].

God has predestined the rest of the people, those whose name is left in the “Book of Life” to heaven (called ELECT).

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA. The predestination of the elect.

Quote: “Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has been irrevocably fixed from all eternity.
Nor could it be otherwise.

For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.”

God’s unerring foreknowledge and foreordaining is designated in the Bible by the beautiful figure of the “Book of Life” (liber vitæ, to biblion tes zoes). This book of life is a list which contains the names of all the elect and admits neither additions nor erasures.

(2) The second quality of predestination, the definiteness of the number of the elect, follows naturally from the first. For if the eternal counsel of God regarding THE PREDESTINED IS UNCHANGEABLE, then the number of the predestined must likewise be unchangeable and definite, subject neither to additions nor to cancellations.

Anything INDEFINITE in the number would EO IPSO imply a lack of certitude in God’s knowledge and would destroy His omniscience.

Furthermore, the very nature of omniscience demands that not only the abstract number of the elect, but also the individuals with their names and their entire career on earth, should be present before the Divine mind from all eternity. End quote. Emphasize added.

Anyone reading the above theological facts could INFALLIBLE conclude:
Easier to come out from a cosmic black hole then to come out from the Body of Christ which is the state of grace.

The PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR LEGISLATIVE TEXTS
sums up the above teaching of the RCC and goes FURTHER then my above comment.

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR LEGISLATIVE TEXTS
ACTUS FORMALIS DEFECTIONIS AB ECCLESIA CATHOLICA
Vatican City, 13 March 2006 Prot. N. 10279/2006

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection. End quote.

Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts is part of the Roman Curia. The Roman Curia is charged with helping the Pope in his governance and oversight of the Roman Catholic Church.

Conclusion from the above quotes of the teaching of the RCC, in particular from the Pontifical Council For Legislative Texts, Actus Formalis Defectionis Ab Ecclesia Catholica:

Our baptism into the Body of Christ which is the state of grace, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection.
Infallibly protected by God’s SPECIAL GRACE, called “THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE.”

How could anyone lose his salvation, when God baptizes only His ELECT, predestined to heaven into the Body of Christ?

KEY POINTS to understand GOD’S PREDESTINATION:

Question: Whom God has predestined to Heaven?

Answer: God has predestined to Heaven all whose name is in the “Book of Life” called ELECT .

Question: Is it a possibility that someone predestined to Heaven ends up in hell?

Answer: Not even one ELECT of God, predestined to Heaven, lose his salvation.

Question: What would happen if a predestined to heaven die in the state of mortal sin and ends up in hell?

Answer: If even only one predestined to heaven would dies in the state of mortal sin and ends up in hell, that would EO IPSO imply a lack of certitude in God’s knowledge and would destroy His omniscience.

Continued

 

[Christian50]

Continuation

1. BAPTISM:

Concerning BAPTISM, in our mission work we might need to know the answer to the following questions:

a. What is a valid baptism and who are those who are having valid baptism?

b. What is an invalid baptism and who are those who are having invalid baptism?

c. What would happen if a validly baptized Christian would die in the state of mortal sin and end up in hell?

Valid baptism is baptism into the Body of Christ which is the state of grace.
Ordinarily we enter into the Body of Christ/state of grace through water baptism.

Baptism also is a translation from the state of mortal sin to the state of grace.
As the Body of Christ is the state of grace, naturally follows, as long as someone is in the Body of Christ he is in the state of grace.

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR LEGISLATIVE TEXTS
ACTUS FORMALIS DEFECTIONIS AB ECCLESIA CATHOLICA
Vatican City, 13 March 2006 Prot. N. 10279/2006

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection. End quote.

Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts is part of the Roman Curia. The Roman Curia is charged with helping the Pope in his governance and oversight of the Roman Catholic Church.

Conclusion from the above quotes of the teaching of the RCC, in particular from the Pontifical Council For Legislative Texts, Actus Formalis Defectionis Ab Ecclesia Catholica:

Our sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ which is the state of grace, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection.

Our sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ which is the state of grace, INFALLIBLY protected by God’s SPECIAL GRACE, called “THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE.”

From the “Book of Life” and from God’s predestination to Heaven NATURALLY FOLLOWS, only those whose name is in the “Book of Life,” and predestined to Heaven has VALID baptism.

Name being in the “Book of Life” and being predestined to Heaven PRECEDES valid baptism. – For this important theological fact we should always remember to understand valid baptism.

As the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection, God baptizes only those into the Body of Christ whose names stand written in the “Book of Life” and predestined to Heaven.

This means also; the reprobates by their rejection of the grace of God, FORFEIT themselves, with result:

a. Their names are not written in the “Book of Life.”

b. They are not among the predestined to Heaven.

c. They are not baptized into the Body of Christ which is the state of grace.

Even if some of them come into a Christian Church and have water baptism, for their rejection of the grace of God, their baptisms are invalid.
God does not baptize anyone into the Body of Christ whose name is not written in the “Book of Life” and not among the predestined to Heaven.

From the above facts, naturally follows:
There are two kinds of people that make up the earthly Church.

Those people whose name is in the “Book of Life,” predestined to Heaven and have valid baptism.

And those people whose names are not in the “Book of Life,” not among the predestined to Heaven and have invalid baptism.

KEY POINTS to understand Baptism:

Question: What is a valid baptism and who are those who are having valid baptism?

Answer: Valid baptism is; baptism into the Body of Christ which is the state of grace.

All those people whose names stand written in the “Book of Life” and predestined to Heaven are having valid baptism.
Being baptized into the Body of Christ is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection.

Question: What is an invalid baptism and who are those who are having invalid baptism?

Answer: Baptism is invalid if God does not complete the baptism by baptizing the candidate into the Body of Christ.
The reprobates are having invalid baptism.

The reason that they are reprobates is; their rejection of the grace of God.
Their names are blotted out from the “Book of Life” and they are not predestined to Heaven.

If some of them join to an earthly Christian Church and they have water baptism, as their names are not in the “Book of Life” and they are not predestined to Heaven, naturally follows their baptism is invalid.
They are not baptized into the Body of Christ which is the state of grace.
They stay in the state of mortal sin.

The activity of the reprobates described in the Bible (for example): Matt.7:15; Matt.13;24-30, 36-43; Matt.24:11, 24; 2 Cor.11:13-15; 2 Thess.2:8-12; 2 Pet.2:13; Rev.13:8; Rev.17:8; etc.
And of course many other people are reprobates because various reasons rejecting the grace of God.

Question: What would happen if a validly baptized Christian would die in the state of mortal sin and end up in hell?

Answer: If even only one validly baptized Christian would die in the state of mortal sin and end up in hell, that would EO IPSO imply a lack of certitude in God’s knowledge and would destroy His omniscience.

Continued

 

[Christian50]

Continuation

1. God’s IRREVOCABLE gifts given to His elect.

Concerning God’s IRREVOCABLE gifts given to His elect, in our mission work we might need to know the answer to the following question:

Is it a possibility that someone whose names stand written in the “Book of life,” predestined to Heaven and having valid baptism, could lose the gifts of God he has previously received and end up in hell?

The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. – Rom.11:29.
When God gives His child a gift, that gift can NEVER be revoked.

Those parts of the Church whose names are written in the “Book of Life,” predestined to Heaven and have valid baptism they are all recipients of God’s IRREVOCABLE gifts as follows:

1. God’s gift of formed faith before Baptism.
   The composite of God’s gift of formed faith:

a. BELIEF (Unconditional BELIEF in what God says.)
b. HOPE (Unconditional TRUST in God.)
c. CHARITY (Unconditional LOVE for God.)

1. Baptism of desire before baptism.
2. God’s great and special gift of final perseverance at baptism.
3. God’s gift of salvation at baptism. – Eph.2:8.
4. God’s gift of eternal life at baptism. – Rom.6:23b
5. Different spiritual gifts of God at baptism or any time after.

For example:
God gives every of His children at baptism the following gifts:

1. God’s great and special gift of final perseverance at baptism.
2. God’s gift of salvation at baptism. – Eph.2:8.
3. God’s gift of eternal life at baptism. – Rom.6:23b

From the point of baptism, the children of God as recipients of God above gifts:

Gift No. 3. Having God’s INFALLIBLE protection that they stay forever in the Body of Christ which is the state of grace.

Gift No. 4. Their gift of salvation is irrevocable.

Gift No. 5. Their gift of everlasting life is irrevocable.
From the point of their baptism into the Body of Christ, they have everlasting life which continues into eternity.

Now we are ready to answer the following question.

Is it a possibility that someone whose names stand written in the “Book of life,” predestined to Heaven and having valid baptism, could lose the gifts of God he has previously received and ends up in hell?

The Pontifical Council For Legislative Texts, Actus Formalis Defectionis Ab Ecclesia Catholica answers the above question.

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR LEGISLATIVE TEXTS
ACTUS FORMALIS DEFECTIONIS AB ECCLESIA CATHOLICA
Vatican City, 13 March 2006 Prot. N. 10279/2006

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection. End quote.

Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts is part of the Roman Curia. The Roman Curia is charged with helping the Pope in his governance and oversight of the Roman Catholic Church.

Continued

 

[Christian50]

Continuation

1. God’s INFALLIBLE protection of the Body of Christ.

Concerning God’s INFALLIBLE protection of the Body of Christ, in our mission work we might need to know the answer to the following question:

Is it a possibility that some Christians whose names stand written in the “Book of life,” predestined to Heaven, baptized into the Body of Christ and having God’s gift of INFALLIBLE protection, His SPECIAL GRACE called: “THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE” and still ends up in hell?

St. Thomas Aquinas, In his Summa Theologiae he wrote:

Quote: [P]erseverance is called he abiding in GOOD to the END of life.

And in order to have this perseverance man . . . NEEDS the divine assistance GUIDING him and GUARDING him against the attacks of the passions . . . And hence after anyone has been JUSTIFIED BY GRACE, he still needs to beseech God for the aforesaid GIFT OF PERSEVERANCE, that he may be kept from evil TILL the END of his life. (ST IIa:109:10) End quote. Emphasize added.

This same teaching was infallibly taught by the Council of Trent after the Protestant Reformation. End quote.

A Tiptoe Through TULIP by James Akin

Quote: Trent’s Decree of Justification, canon 16, speaks of “That Great and Special Gift of Final Perseverance,” and chapter 13 of the decree speaks of “the gift of perseverance of which it is written:
‘He who perseveres to the end shall be saved [Matt. 10:22, 24:13],’
Which cannot be obtained from anyone except from Him who is able to make him who stands to stand [Rom. 14:4].”

AQUINAS said it ALWAYS saves a person because of THE KIND of grace it is; MOLINA said it ALWAYS saves a person because God only gives it to those whom he knows will respond to it. But the effect is the same: The gift of final perseverance ALWAYS works.

Catholics even have a special name for the GRACE God gives these people: “THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE.”

The Church FORMALLY teaches that there is a gift of final perseverance.
[43] AQUINAS (and even MOLINA) said this grace ALWAYS ensures that a person will persevere.

[44] AQUINAS said, “Predestination [to final salvation] MOST CERTAINLY and INFALLIBLY takes effect.”

AQUINAS said the gift of final perseverance is “the abiding in GOOD to the END of life. End quote. Emphasize added.

The power of perseverance is neither in the human will alone nor in God’s grace solely, but in the combination of both, i.e., Divine grace aiding human will, and human will co-operating with Divine grace.

God’s gift of FINAL PERSEVERANCE is a divine assistance guiding and guarding the predestined to Heaven and always ensures the recipients that they die in the state of grace. – This is an infallible teaching of the Church.

Now we are ready to answer the following question.

Is it a possibility that some Christians whose names stand written in the “Book of life,” predestined to Heaven, baptized into the Body of Christ and having God’s gift of INFALLIBLE protection His SPECIAL GRACE called: “THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE” and still ends up in hell?

We don’t have to answer the above question, because John Martignoni, the Word of God and the Pontifical Council For Legislative Texts, Actus Formalis Defectionis Ab Ecclesia Catholica, answers the above question instead of us.

Apologetics 101 by John Martignoni Apologetics for the Masses #252

Quote: In the Douay-Rheims version of the Bible, that passage reads this way: “Jesus therefore, when He had taken the vinegar, said, ‘It is CONSUMMATED.’” It is consummated. What was consummated?

His total giving of Himself was consummated. The total giving of His very life…which had begun several hours earlier in the Garden of Gethsemane…was consummated.

And, who was this total giving of self for?
He gave Himself up for His bride, the Church.

Ephesians 5:31-32, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife, THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE.

This is a great mystery, and I mean in reference to CHRIST and the CHURCH .” End quote. Emphasize added.

1 Cor.12:12, 20, 27 (Jerusalem Bible) – The analogy of the body.
“Just as a human body, though it is made up of many parts, is A SNGLE UNIT because all these parts, though many, MAKE ONE BODY, so it is WITH CHRIST. … As it is, the parts are many but the BODY IS ONE. … Now you together are CHRIST’S BODY; …” End quote Emphasize added.

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR LEGISLATIVE TEXTS
ACTUS FORMALIS DEFECTIONIS AB ECCLESIA CATHOLICA
Vatican City, 13 March 2006 Prot. N. 10279/2006

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection. End quote.

Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts is part of the Roman Curia. The Roman Curia is charged with helping the Pope in his governance and oversight of the Roman Catholic Church.

As we see above: There is no divorce in the Body of Christ.

When someone at baptism (valid baptism) is baptized into the body of Christ which is the state of grace, that is an EVERLASTING UNION which can NEWER be broken or end.
INFALLIBLY protected by God’s SPECIAL GRACE, called “GOD’S GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE.”

If someone would have to be taken out from the Body of Christ which is the state of grace, that would EO IPSO imply a lack of certitude in God’s knowledge and would destroy His omniscience.

Continued

 

[Christian50]

Continuation

SUMMARY OF GOD’S PATTERN OF SALVATION

Every member of the entire human race belongs to one of the two following groups.

THE GROUP OF GOD’S ELECT, PREDESTINED TO HEAVEN.

Their names stand written in the “Book of Life,” predestined to Heaven, baptized into the Body of Christ which is the state of grace and having God’s gift of INFALLIBLE protection His SPECIAL GRACE called: “THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE.”

Even if one of them dies in the state of mortal sin, it is an absolute theological impossibility.

Even if one of them dies in the state of mortal sin, that would EO IPSO imply a lack of certitude in God’s knowledge and would destroy His omniscience.

THE GROUP OF THE REPROBATES.

In effect, the reprobates by their rejection of the grace of God, they removed themselves from the “Book of Life.”

Some of the members of the group comes into the Church and even they have water baptism.
For their rejection of the grace of God, their baptism is invalid.

God does not baptize anyone into the Body of Christ whose name is not written in the “Book of Life” and not among the predestined to Heaven.

Of course for our understanding, when God tells us something connected with the “Book of Life” He speaks to us in our human chronological order. For example: Ex.32:32-33; Rev.3:5; etc…

The “Book of Life” was completed by God before founding of the world, before times eternal.
From the completion of the “Book of L
ife,” the “Book of Life” admits neither additions nor erasures.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA. The predestination of the elect.

Quote: God’s unerring foreknowledge and foreordaining is designated in the Bible by the beautiful figure of the “Book of Life” (liber vitæ, to biblion tes zoes).
This book of life is a LIST which CONTAINS THE NAMES OF THE ELECT and admits neither additions nor erasures. End quote. Emphasize added.

Concerning salvation according to CCC 847:
Maybe some exception that some can be saved in a different way according to CCC 847, but we cannot use exceptions to establish the norm.

Nevertheless, those who are saved according to CCC 847, their names written in the “Book of Life,” they are among God’s elect and they are also predestined to Heaven and in the same way then others, they can not lose their salvation.
They also have “God’s Great and Special Gift of Final Perseverance.”
So, their pattern of salvation just about the same as everyone else.

Above is my understanding of God’s pattern of salvation.
I welcome any corrections/comments from the members of the CAF.

Thanking you in advance.

God bless.

Christian

 

[thenobes]

C50,

In regard to:

Above is my understanding of God’s pattern of salvation.
I welcome any corrections/comments from the members of the CAF.

I believe there are several misunderstandings involved in your analysis. They are:

1 Book of Life - contains destined to grace and destined to heaven, although those destined to grace are blotted out. CCC600 says nothing about the Book of Life.
Jesus says he can blot out the name of some from the Book of Life. See cath ency, aquinas, Summa Theologica > First Part > Question 24

1. Predestination -
2. Baptism - Although one becomes “a belonging” of the Body of Christ through Baptism, and becomes thereby also a member, a working part of the Body, this does not in any way mean that he cannot later become a dead appendage due to the rejection of sanctifying grace. In that case he belongs to the Body, but is not a member. Think fingernail. Dead tissue that is attached to a live body.
3. God’s IRREVOCABLE gifts given to His elect. - Baptism imparts the Gift of Charity, but the gift can be rejected at any time after baptism. See 3. Baptism. Thus one’s faith beocmes a dead one, and one’s faith becomes Nothing.
4. God’s INFALLIBLE protection of the Body of Christ.- …“he still needs to beseech God for the aforesaid GIFT OF PERSEVERANCE”. --Council of Trent. Since 1, 3, and 4 have not been shown necessary, the necessity of beseeching becomes a matter of free will and not an unrejectable gift.

peace
steve