Is it a sacrilege to attend a Novus Ordo service?

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romano:
Is it a sacrilege to attend a Novus Ordo service?

I read at traditio.com/comment/com0503.htm that “The Novus Ordo is not a “mass.” It’s a newly-fabricated Protestant service with a good dollop of Judaism. There is absolutely no “obligation” ever to be attend the Novus Ordo service. In fact, it would be sacrilegious to be present for it.”

Is this true?
Nope, and anyone who says so is him/herself a SCHISMATIC. These do great damage to the church, and are instruments of the devil as well as are the liberals. If you notice these are the same types who lack all charity and become fanatics. They have no idea of the church as community either. That’s why most don’t bother with even realizing that there are OTHER human beings next to them, or even OUTSIDE when the TRADITIONAL Mass finishes, they go their merry way without even LOOKING at anyone. I would prefer a LUTHERAN over these TYPES of “catholics.” Now some can say the Tridentine Latin Mass in ITSELF is prettier, or more reverent, that may be so, but to say it’s a sacrilege?? Come on: this is snobish and heresy.
 
I have a hard time with those that think they are a truer christian than the pope. I will kindly mention that Luther was the exactly same way.
 
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romano:
Is it a sacrilege to attend a Novus Ordo service?

I read at traditio.com/comment/com0503.htm that “The Novus Ordo is not a “mass.” It’s a newly-fabricated Protestant service with a good dollop of Judaism. There is absolutely no “obligation” ever to be attend the Novus Ordo service. In fact, it would be sacrilegious to be present for it.”

Is this true?
Romano,

If I may be emphatic, not just no but ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

Somebody started another thread about why so many people regarded “Latin Mass” as a dirty word. This sort of thing is why.
  • Liberian
who loves Latin and the old Tridentine Mass
but who is also an obedient son of Mother Church
 
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webdezyn:
It may be a sacrilege for those who are heretics or schismatic…maybe…
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Webdezyn,

I’d draw a distinction between attending Mass (which is, I think, permitted to anyone and everyone) and receiving communion (which is open to Catholics only).
  • Liberian
 
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Windmill:
I have a hard time with those that think they are a truer christian than the pope. I will kindly mention that Luther was the exactly same way.
This usually is the case: pride. It happens sometimes to those who are trying to be soooooo perfect that they do not and cannot accept the littlest fault, or spiritual slip of anyone. This is fanaticism at its best. I had a friend like this, that she began to listen to every single advice of anyone who was not a priest etc., and that person was very judgemental and always sought to find fault with everyone, then say it behind their back: this is pride.
 
Its sad there is a finge group that give a large majority of those who attend the TLM a bad name. The fact is the Novus Ordo can be done in a VERY traditional manner, such as done with Assumption Grotto in Detroit.
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misericordie:
Nope, and anyone who says so is him/herself a SCHISMATIC. These do great damage to the church, and are instruments of the devil as well as are the liberals. If you notice these are the same types who lack all charity and become fanatics. They have no idea of the church as community either. That’s why most don’t bother with even realizing that there are OTHER human beings next to them, or even OUTSIDE when the TRADITIONAL Mass finishes, they go their merry way without even LOOKING at anyone. I would prefer a LUTHERAN over these TYPES of “catholics.” Now some can say the Tridentine Latin Mass in ITSELF is prettier, or more reverent, that may be so, but to say it’s a sacrilege?? Come on: this is snobish and heresy.
 
The Novus Ordo when done right can be very beautiful.

That being said, I wish that a straight translation of the latin or a latin/english combination translation had been promulgated as the new mass.

I believe a new english translation is being reviewed at the present moment which removes many of the inaccuracies of the current translation.

I do wish that the word “all” was removed and the word “many” put back into the consecration so that many of the schismatic movements would lose one of their primary arguments against the validity of the current mass.

I think a newer more accurate translation could go a long way in healing some current wounds in the church.
 
I wouldn’t trust that www.traditio.com website.
I have always been told authentic people are humble even when disagree. That website is very cruel to those who disagree or those they disagree with…that is no way to win over followers if you know what I mean…

I would suggest www.catholicintl.com…they are not perfect, but they are far more likely to give a straight honest answer on what is to be believed…however, I wish they wouldn’t waste so much time on scientific issues that don’t really contribute to our faith.
 
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Primitive:
I wouldn’t trust that www.traditio.com website.
I have always been told authentic people are humble even when disagree. That website is very cruel to those who disagree or those they disagree with…that is no way to win over followers if you know what I mean…

I would suggest www.catholicintl.com…they are not perfect, but they are far more likely to give a straight honest answer on what is to be believed…however, I wish they wouldn’t waste so much time on scientific issues that don’t really contribute to our faith.
Your second link is not working.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Your second link is not working.
That’s because it’s at:
catholicintl.com/

** Primitive** accidently put “…they” as part of the address.

Speaking of Traditio.com, this is part of the post for June 18…published today:
Amazon Determines TRADITIO to Be the Most Popular
Traditional Roman Catholic Web Site on the Internet
From: Fr. Moderator
We have been informed that Amazon has determined the TRADITIO, Traditional Roman Catholic Internet Site and First Web Site on the Internet for Traditional Roman Catholics since September 29, 1994, to be by far the most popular traditional Roman Catholic web site on the internet.
In the statistical survey, TRADITIO was almost twice as frequently accessed as the next web site, a book and tape sales site, and almost four times as frequently as the SSPX site, which placed a distant third.
 
I regularly read the Traditio web site, primarily ro read the news articles that are posted, I do check them out for veracity however, and the photos that the moderator posts of N.O. mass abuses. I understand full well that the site is sede vecantist oriented, and is radical to an extreme degree, however, the truth itself is often radical, hard to accept and often downright ugly.

First off, I am a Roman Catholic. I accept the authority of the Holy Father and believe in the “true” teaching of the church. That being said, no sensible person can deny that the Church is in trouble, spiritually, morally and financially. And it is in trouble for one, at least to me, obvious reason. A large portion of the church leadership has abandoned the churches teaching and this has led to many people in the church either not believing or not knowing what to believe. In the interest if ecumenical dialogue and fence mending with other religions, Rome has allowed or perhaps pushed Catholicism to become a much less rigid version of what it was, more accepting of human frailities, sin and beliefs. It no longer stands as the one true faith, but merely one of many religions, all of which must be respected and accepted.

But getting back to the question is attending the Novis Ordo Mass sacriligeous? I think not. If the mass is celebrated properly, if the consecration, which is the heart of the holy mass is valid, and if the matter, bread and wine are valid, then the mass itself is valid and it cannot be sacriligeous. Logically then if the Holy Mass is valid then it cannot be sacriligeous to attend it. Further, even if the mass is not celebrated properly, if the consecration or the matter is invalid, and the communicant is unaware, it cannot be sacriligeous to attend. It would become sacriligeous if a person knowingly attends and receives communion at a mass where it is known that abuses occur. Example, the mass is celebrated by a female minister or other non-ordained person. The consecration prayers are made up on the spot and the communion wafer is a soy/whey protein bar accompanied by grape juice. Obviously such a mass is in and of itself invalid and in violation of all church rules and norms. It would certainly be sacriligeous to attend if these facts are known to you. .

Of course, not all traditional masses are celebrated properly and can be sacriligeous as well. If abuses occur in them they must be avoided also. Their abuses seem to basically take two forms. The mass itself is a hybrid, mixing the 1962 rubrics with later versions, which is specifically not allowed under the indult, or the celebrants are schismatic. The first abuse is easy enough to determine while the second can be very tricky unless you talk to the priest and find out exactly what he is and represents. It is also almost impossible to tell if the consecration prayers are valid in traditional msses.

In short, if the mass you attend is celebrated properly, in accordance with all rules and norms it cannot be sacriligeous irregardless as to the rite, Novus Ordo, Traditional, Maronite, Cistercian, Ambrosian, Carthusian etc, all are accepted forms of the mass, if celebrated properly.

MOST SACRED HEART OF JESUS HAVE MERCY ON US
MOST SACRED HEART OF JESUS HAVE MERCY ON US
MOST SACRED HEART OF JESUS HAVE MERCY ON US.
 
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palmas85:
I regularly read the Traditio web site, primarily ro read the news articles that are posted, I do check them out for veracity however, and the photos that the moderator posts of N.O. mass abuses. I understand full well that the site is sede vecantist oriented, and is radical to an extreme degree, however, the truth itself is often radical, hard to accept and often downright ugly.

First off, I am a Roman Catholic. I accept the authority of the Holy Father and believe in the “true” teaching of the church. That being said, no sensible person can deny that the Church is in trouble, spiritually, morally and financially. And it is in trouble for one, at least to me, obvious reason. A large portion of the church leadership has abandoned the churches teaching and this has led to many people in the church either not believing or not knowing what to believe. In the interest if ecumenical dialogue and fence mending with other religions, Rome has allowed or perhaps pushed Catholicism to become a much less rigid version of what it was, more accepting of human frailities, sin and beliefs. It no longer stands as the one true faith, but merely one of many religions, all of which must be respected and accepted.

But getting back to the question is attending the Novis Ordo Mass sacriligeous? I think not. If the mass is celebrated properly, if the consecration, which is the heart of the holy mass is valid, and if the matter, bread and wine are valid, then the mass itself is valid and it cannot be sacriligeous. Logically then if the Holy Mass is valid then it cannot be sacriligeous to attend it. Further, even if the mass is not celebrated properly, if the consecration or the matter is invalid, and the communicant is unaware, it cannot be sacriligeous to attend. It would become sacriligeous if a person knowingly attends and receives communion at a mass where it is known that abuses occur. Example, the mass is celebrated by a female minister or other non-ordained person. The consecration prayers are made up on the spot and the communion wafer is a soy/whey protein bar accompanied by grape juice. Obviously such a mass is in and of itself invalid and in violation of all church rules and norms. It would certainly be sacriligeous to attend if these facts are known to you. .

Of course, not all traditional masses are celebrated properly and can be sacriligeous as well. If abuses occur in them they must be avoided also. Their abuses seem to basically take two forms. The mass itself is a hybrid, mixing the 1962 rubrics with later versions, which is specifically not allowed under the indult, or the celebrants are schismatic. The first abuse is easy enough to determine while the second can be very tricky unless you talk to the priest and find out exactly what he is and represents. It is also almost impossible to tell if the consecration prayers are valid in traditional msses.

In short, if the mass you attend is celebrated properly, in accordance with all rules and norms it cannot be sacriligeous irregardless as to the rite, Novus Ordo, Traditional, Maronite, Cistercian, Ambrosian, Carthusian etc, all are accepted forms of the mass, if celebrated properly.

MOST SACRED HEART OF JESUS HAVE MERCY ON US
MOST SACRED HEART OF JESUS HAVE MERCY ON US
MOST SACRED HEART OF JESUS HAVE MERCY ON US.
Tridentine is great if the INDULT. However, so is the Novus Ordo if celebrated properly. As of now the NORMATIVE Mass is the Novus Ordo (a priest is to follow the rubrics 100%) and the Tridentine by INdult and the Bishop’s specific permission. Some mnay disagree with this, but until it changes one is to be obedient to the Bishop and the Vatican.
 
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misericordie:
Tridentine is great if the INDULT. However, so is the Novus Ordo if celebrated properly. As of now the NORMATIVE Mass is the Novus Ordo (a priest is to follow the rubrics 100%) and the Tridentine by INdult and the Bishop’s specific permission. Some mnay disagree with this, but until it changes one is to be obedient to the Bishop and the Vatican.
Exactly what I was saying. However, the rites I listed as well as several others whose names escape me for now are also fully valid when celebrated properly. However, it doesn’t matter which rite is used. If it is not properly celebrated it is wrong, invalid and sacriligeous.
 
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Verbum:
Romano,

Thank you for venting! These are my sentiments precisely! I guess it’s not so much the Novus Ordo itself as the way those who attend it behave that bothers me. You missed out the scruffy dress, the females with bare midriffs or mini-skirts, others who spend most of the Mass running their fingers through unwashed hair, cell phones going off, shrieks of laughter, etc. Also the untrained readers who mispronounce every second word and generally mangle the passages they attempt to read, etc., etc.

So what you hate is not the “new” mass, but the new humanity! Be therefore advised that if the “old” mass came back as the standard, you would have to endure this bothersome humanity every time you went to church. Oh me, oh my!

Verbum
I don’t go to Latin Masses but I understand they are what we would have called a “High Mass” rather than the old quickie gabbled “Low Mass”.
I have been to very spirit filled Masses (“new” Mass if you like). Our parish Mass at Penetecost lasted 90 mins and was wonderful. On the other hand I have heard of Masses in Ireland that have been said in 13 mins (I’ve heard this several times from Irish people). I’m old enough to remember many awfull parish Latin Masses (Pre-Vatican II) which were quite incomprehensible, muttered by the priest.
I’m sure both can be done well as well as done badly. I wish that those who want something better than is sometimes offerred would not opt out and go to TLM but stick with their parish, try and educate fellow parishioners (lovingly).
 
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steve99:
I don’t go to Latin Masses …I wish that those who want something better than is sometimes offerred would not opt out and go to TLM but **stick with their parish, try and educate fellow parishioners **(lovingly).
If you want something better, the only obvious answer IS the TLM. This is not opting out. It is being Faithful to Christ, and the Father’s command for proper Worship AT ALL TIMES. That is a PERSONAL obligation that has the highest priority…infinitly higher than “sticking with their parish”.
 
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romano:
Is it a sacrilege to attend a Novus Ordo service?

I read at traditio.com/comment/com0503.htm that “The Novus Ordo is not a “mass.” It’s a newly-fabricated Protestant service with a good dollop of Judaism. There is absolutely no “obligation” ever to be attend the Novus Ordo service. In fact, it would be sacrilegious to be present for it.”

Is this true?
I don’t feel attending the Novus Ordus is a sacrilege, there is some big differences in theology though. The only way to know is to compare the Masses for your selves. Try the following website:

the-pope.com/missals.html.

It gives and English translation for each and places them side by side so you can see the changes in the prayers.

There were about 1182 orations that were used throughout the cycle. About 760 were removed altogether when the new Mass was formed. The rest were reworked to lessen the essence of sacrifice and giving thanks and honor to God(from a book by a Priest named Fr. “Anthony Cekada, The Problems with the Prayers of the Modern Mass.” ?). This was done in the spirit of ecumenism according to the ‘author’ of the new mass, Archbisop Annibale Bungnini with the sanction of Pope Paul VI. Both basically said they wanted members of other faiths to feel comfortable at our Mass. Remember the saying "Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi. Translated…How you pray is how you believe. If the Mass was changed, are we praying differently and if so are we believing differently?

Look up the website for the Mass comparison and articles on Bungnini and Paul VI on the implentation of the New Mass.

As Fox News says…I’ll Report You Decide.
 
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Lanciano:
I don’t feel attending the Novus Ordus is a sacrilege, there is some big differences in theology though. The only way to know is to compare the Masses for your selves. Try the following website:

the-pope.com/missals.html.

It gives and English translation for each and places them side by side so you can see the changes in the prayers.

There were about 1182 orations that were used throughout the cycle. About 760 were removed altogether when the new Mass was formed. The rest were reworked to lessen the essence of sacrifice and giving thanks and honor to God(from a book by a Priest named Fr. “Anthony Cekada, The Problems with the Prayers of the Modern Mass.” ?). This was done in the spirit of ecumenism according to the ‘author’ of the new mass, Archbisop Annibale Bungnini with the sanction of Pope Paul VI. Both basically said they wanted members of other faiths to feel comfortable at our Mass. Remember the saying "Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi. Translated…How you pray is how you believe. If the Mass was changed, are we praying differently and if so are we believing differently?

Look up the website for the Mass comparison and articles on Bungnini and Paul VI on the implentation of the New Mass.

As Fox News says…I’ll Report You Decide.
More Bugnini conspiracies. Can you kindly point out an objective site that is concerned with historical ***accuracy ***that supports what you are asserting? Or a book? Anything other than this or other rad trad sites that disparge the Council (I’m not talking about the nebulous “Spirit of Vatican II,” I’m talking about the Council itself) and cast doubts on the validity of the Mass of Paul VI? It’s well that you “don’t feel attending the Novus Ordus is a sacrilege,” but you’ve just cited a group who does believe it’s a sacrilege. If they told me it was a bright and sunny day, I’d carry an umbrella…already open.
 
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TNT:
If you want something better, the only obvious answer IS the TLM. This is not opting out. It is being Faithful to Christ, and the Father’s command for proper Worship AT ALL TIMES. That is a PERSONAL obligation that has the highest priority…infinitly higher than “sticking with their parish”.
There is no “better” Mass. There is, but one Mass. It may be said according to a different Missals (the Indult from one, the Mass of Paul VI another), but to assert that one is better…hmmm, seems to deny the validity of the other. That would heresy.
 
Notice:

This thread is now closed. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion.
 
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