God has not granted them the right to be in this country. They may have a right to work but they have no right to work wherever they please. They have no rights to jobs that would readily be filled by Americans - except for the financial incentive illegals provide to less than scrupulous employers. These jobs are being taken from people with an equal moral right to them and an infinitely greater legal right.
That’s what they practice in Chicago, isn’t it? Lots of dead folks vote in Chicago…sorry, couldn’t resist an easy joke.
Actually, there’s this whole COMMANDMENT that tells us that coveting is a sin…
Your arguments are so well presented there’s nothing else for those of us who agree with you to say either.
YES. It is illegal and it is a sin. If that were not the case, DH and I would have saved thousands of dollars, time and worry and frustration, and just had him come here illegally from England. We were even offered a way by an immigration attorney to “get around the system” by doing just that and “fixing” things once he got here. I was completely disgusted at the mere suggesting.
Yes - it is absolutely illegal. If we can do it the right way, so can others.
In the instance of persecution or other evils, there are ways to seek assylum LEGALLY. No excuses.
~Liza
you seem to have jumped right on in to the self-righteous pool yourself!
Sin is an offense against God not man. According to your reasoning, if you make an “illegal” u-turn or go 5 mph over the speed limit, or get a ticket for parking illegally then you are, in fact, sinning?
how many US Citizens do you know who’s ambition it is in life to spend their lives picking strawberries, who raise their children to pick strawberries? how about clean latrines or horse stalls? I’ve posted a reference regarding how willing US Citizens are to do this type of work in a previous post.
I’m more concerned about the “sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance” and “I was hungry and you fed me”. The ONLY way that it would concern me is if they are not paying a “fair wage” since the failure to pay fair wages is also a “sin that cries out for vengeance”.
I don’t see the charity in the above statement. You’re saying that rather than hire the poor undocumented immigrants and help feed their families by giving them work you would rather use of voluntary prison labor? I honestly am not following your reasoning here.
I agree that the BEST for all concerned is that people can find work to care for their families in their country of orign. I know that this might be hard to believe to many here, but most Mexicans don’t want US Citizenship. People who have a business or a good job don’t want to leave. The ones who come here just want to work. I work with Mexicans and they tell me the ONLY ones who come here are the ones who are poor. Think about it, would you leave your extended family & homeland, risking your life doing so and/or pay thousands of dollars to cayotes unless you had little or no other option? It’s not like it’s just a pleasant stroll across the border ya know. Makes sense to me!
So, is stealing to feed your family a sin…even if you’re capable of working?
If you knowingly violate the law, then yes, you are sinning, because God has placed the rulers over us and, with the exception of immorallity, we are to obey those put over us by the Lord, this is found in both Scripture and the CCC. Paul says it quite plainly that the governing authorities are to be obeyed. So absolutely yes, when you go 75 instead of 70 on the interstate, you have sinned. When you cross the border of the US illegally rather than going through the proper immigration channels, you have sinned.
ROM 13:1-7
Titus 3:1
Life’s ambition? No, more than willing to do this type of work to feed their family…yes…I DID clean batherooms and horse stalls and put up hay in order to feed my family…and had picking strawberries, or picking popcorn out of poop been available I would have done it to feed my family.
Hey smart guy, right there is an issue that most US citizens oppossed to Illegal Immigration have with this issue…those who come here…and stay for decades quite often, don’t want to assimilate, don’t want to be part of the great melting pot that is our nation, but sure as hell don’t mind sending money out of our country and taking advantage of our social services.
How has every oppressed people done so. Ya know, it’s easier to run from a problem than confront it…situations are hard…but maybe, just maybe, being hungry and having no roof might encourage some of those who would come here illegal to start working for change at home. It’s their government’s responsibility to feed them, not ours. I’ll donate money, I’ll donate time.
Illegal immigration was a promblem LONG BEFORE NAFTA and CAFTA came along…thus Ronald Reagan’s quite mistaken amnesty…The problem is corruption in Mexico and other Central and South American Countries.
Hey, I’m all for a good reform of our immigration laws that will allow unskilled workers in as long as it doesn’t drive our labor prices down too much…I’m not anti-immigrant, I’m anti ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. For the most part the Migrants, legal and illegal, that come from our southern border are honest, hard working family oriented people…but if they’re here illegally, they are here illegally.
I didn’t say a word about overthrowing Mexico’s government, I DID say that the illegals, and we as well, must fight for change. But, if things continue as they are Mexico will get a Hugo Chavez, unless and until the corruption in Mexico ends there will eventually be a populist get themselves elected as Chavez has…Chavez is no more honest no less corrupt than any government that came before him, but he’s convinced the poor of Venuzuela that he’s helping them when he’s really only helping himself…unless Mexico reforms, REALLY reforms, the same will happen there.
Annual immigration from Mexico to the United States increased 60 percent in the first six years of the [NAFTA] pact alone. (1994-2000)
the words “cry out to heaven” should be familiar to you by now.
again, it’s a matter of removing the log from my own [nations] eye, before picking the speck out of my neighbor [nations] eye.
Given my previous post on NAFTA/CAFTA/IMF/SA’s I would say that the US has seriously failed in it’s obligation towards the common good in favor of greed. (common good does not only refer to one’s nation - here are some CCC references if you like)
Quote:
Dear Sprout,
In the other paragraph you quoted I suspect you are referring to a possible situation where one would not have to follow current immigration law. I find it a bit awkward to try and apply paragraph 2242 below to the immigration situation, but if we are talking about those illegal aliens who are here without a “grave reason”, then this passage, especially the part you omitted in your post, takes on a more nuanced meaning, and I think speaks more to people like me, US citizens in low-wage jobs who could reasonably expect to receive better treatment if illegal aliens were not so abundant here.
Finally, I think that if, as 75% of the participants in this thread’s poll have said, if (and when) immigrating illegally is in fact a sin, then encouraging and covering up for that sin is also a sin. Now there’s some food for thought. It may turn out that we do in fact have to evaluate the actions of others from time to time after all - in order to be able to determine what our responding actions should be.
This is a fallacy, illegals are in large sections of the economy…restaurants…hotels…construction…like I stated earlier, I know a guy who is a great roofer but can’t get contracts because he’s consistently underbid by companies that hire illegals for less than he can pay his union guys…so yes, illegals are taking food out of the mouth of these workers.
If I needed money and the job was available I’d take it…I’ve cleaned stalls, I’ve put up hay, I’ve cut corn out of bean fields, there’s nothing I won’t do to feed my family…
Yes, most of them are, I’m not angry at them, I’m angry at the people who lure them here…the people who HIRE them are the ones I’m upset with…
And God demands that we OBEY CIVIL AUTHORITY.
Yes, there are actually, those defining purgatory, hell, and the universe from heaven…and God KNOWS who is coming into heaven…we don’t have the right to know who is coming into the US? Besides which, in heaven, they don’t have to worry about terrorists or people stealing medical services or welfare money…do they?
really? and how do you know what type of jobs “pro-aliens” have if any at all? I do commend you on the use of the word “alien” as that is a term much preferable to “illegal” and the term used in the Bible. The only ones “giving away” these jobs are the employers who offer these jobs and our gov’t that allows it. In case you missed it here are some citations regarding “unskilled labor” statistics and US Citizens’ willingness to fill those jobs
Except for you I haven’t seen any others here who oppose Illegal Immigration make any such distinction. On the contrary, they seem to lump all these people into one category they refer to in the inhumane manner as “illegals”.
No. I’m not saying that. I’m saying that countries can and do make laws that are immoral, unjust and do not follow God’s law and are outside the Gospel. One cannot just blindly follow their national leaders and politics to the exclusion of the gospel and give their nation’s laws the same due only to God (to me that would border on blasphemy and woshipping false gods). To blindly say that " breaking any country’s law is a sin" is this kind of false blind alliegance. Also, given the fact that US and World Bank greed has brought about this situation I would think that would add significantly to our nations culpability.
Yes. And since sin is not a matter of public opinion and it hasn’t been established in the least that crossing a nation’s border to accept work that’s been offered to feed your family is a sin against God, then I think I’m pretty safe there. Besides, I do not “encourage or cover up” for those who do so.
So it is my position that by ordering, advising, praising, approving of, not disclosing or not hindering our governments when they attempt to:
These are the jobs that are stolen from those that were willing to do them at a fair wage.
