Is it better to stay in a loveless marriage for the sake of your children?

[frangiuliano115]

The primary end of marriage is the begetting and rearing of children. You have children, so you’re definitely committed at this point to making their best interests the top priority. You and your husband have to find a way to make it work.

The vows you take when you get married are for better or worse, richer or poorer, and in sickness and in health. If everyone got better, richer, and health, we wouldn’t need vows. The purpose of vows is that sometimes you get worse, poor, or sick. Sometimes you even get worse, poor, and sick. None of which mean that you are now free to leave the marriage. It sounds like you got worse, to some extent. So, try to make it better.

These are vows you took before God and man, in a covenant that he established, you don’t get to abandon them just because you have to honor your vows or because it might seem difficult. This is exactly what you sign up for when you get married.

Very well put.

Most people don’t realize that marriage is a covenant, not a contract. GOD was there as a witness!

Fran

 

[Allegra]

I’m curious why you think this?
Are you quoting a poll or stat?

How…almost always worse?

There have been many, many children who learn from and love dearly the new spouse of their mother or father…and have had their lives enriched by them.

.

My step-parents are wonderful and have enriched my life, but I would still have been happier and more confident had my parents remained married. Losing the sense of permanence to a family is devastating to a child. I liked my step-parents, but I was always aware that they could be put out or leave anytime people didn’t feel loved enough or weren’t getting their way. That’s no way for a child to live, and statistics show that it caries into the children’s future marriages. Family is supposed to be forever.

 

[frangiuliano115]

My step-parents are wonderful and have enriched my life, but I would still have been happier and more confident had my parents remained married. Losing the sense of permanence to a family is devastating to a child. I liked my step-parents, but I was always aware that they could be put out or leave anytime people didn’t feel loved enough or weren’t getting their way. That’s no way for a child to live, and statistics show that it caries into the children’s future marriages.** Family is supposed to be forever.**/QUOTE]

Family is supposed to be forever.

So much said with so few words!

Fran

 

[Anglewannabe]

I really cannot endorse the “let’s fight after the kids go to bed” plan.
.

I TOTALLY agree with you. That’s why I have said on several occasions, save your marriage for the sake of your marriage, not the kid

 

[Polluted]

I’ll give another great senario. Nothing weirder on the child’s end than 2 parents who divorce then 20 years later when trying to get back together at the birth of their grandson because they wanna play “take up where we left off” because they spent 20 years miserable and in failed relstionships.

It gets weird trust me

 

[Anglewannabe]

Beautiful!
Nothing like a personal testimony.

odd statement considering the way you criticized GreyWing’s personal testimony

 

[Anglewannabe]

So the marriage is more important than the impact on the son???

YES !

If the marriage ends up being good, the son will benefit.

A man is to leave his family and cleave to his wife. Which means a) the son will grow up and leave and then what for the OP? and b) the OP’s husband is suppose to cleave to her which makes the marriage more important

 

[Anglewannabe]

Sounds terrible, but as a Man who grew up with a mother who has been married a total of 3 times, and divorced through all of them. Who had multiple other “men” or boyfriends in the house, some of whom were not every pleasant psychologically or physically. You may have had it better than you think. It ain’t that much greener on this side of the fence, TRUST me. If the worst thing someone is sentenced to is a loveless marriage but isn’t abusive…the OP should consider herself lucky.

Pollutted, I am very sorry for everything you have been through. The saddest is you obviously still carry humongous scar. You even call yourself ‘pollutted’. So sad

But NO WHERE did I suggest the OP date other men. I simply said that it is a possibility she may have to leave her marriage. In which case, unless an annulment can be granted, she should stay single forever.

Not everyone who divorces remarries or even dates

 

[white_sheep]

Pollutted, I am very sorry for everything you have been through. The saddest is you obviously still carry humongous scar. You even call yourself ‘pollutted’. So sad

But NO WHERE did I suggest the OP date other men. I simply said that it is a possibility she may have to leave her marriage. In which case, unless an annulment can be granted, she should stay single forever.

Not everyone who divorces remarries or even dates

Not being in love anymore, or being in a loveless marriage is not a reason to divorce, let alone a good one.

 

[on_the_hill]

I really cannot endorse the “let’s fight after the kids go to bed” plan.

My parents did a lot of that when I was a kid, and it wasn’t nice to listen to alone in bed.

They loved each other a lot, but their problem solving methods were terrible.

Yep.
I’m glad my parents stayed together, but it was scary as a child, and I think they were miserable for many years.
I think this is why I have a near total aversion to interpersonal conflict

 

[frangiuliano115]

odd statement considering the way you criticized GreyWing’s personal testimony

I don’t even understand your post no. 69 so I won’t answer to it.

Regarding GreyWings personal testimony.

You must have read something wrong. I’m sure she would agree. I would never criticize a person’s personal choice. Did I know all the facts concerning what she’s talking about? No. So how or why would I criticize her?

Just to set the record straight for the readers - I don’t want my name being tarnished.

Fran

 

[Anglewannabe]

Not being in love anymore, or being in a loveless marriage is not a reason to divorce, let alone a good one.

Agreed, but it sounds to me like that is not the only reason the OP is considering leaving

 

[Anglewannabe]

I don’t even understand your post no. 69 so I won’t answer to it.

Thank you for your honesty. However… your lack of understanding does not mean I need to explain.

 

[Xantippe]

OP,

Is there a possibility that you have postpartum depression or just plain depression?

Either of those could make your emotions very “flat.”

 

[EasterJoy]

The short answer is that you need to presume your marriage is valid and stay, particularly for as long as your husband is willing to stay. That is what you promised, and you did not just make the promise to each other. You made the promise to God, and you made it in front of the universal Church (for whom the priest or deacon was witness.

If he refuses counselling, it doesn’t stop you from getting it for yourself. If he won’t read any books about how to improve communication skills, it won’t stop you from reading some. If he makes life difficult for you, that does not mean you have room to make life difficult for him. If he will not choose to make you feel wanted and needed, that doesn’t stop you from doing what you ought to do.

OK, that was the “you have a duty, here” part. Here is the practical experience part: Couples who have just had a baby are as likely to have blunted feelings towards each other as they are to have enhanced feelings. They are more likely, after the expectation of pregnancy, to feel: Is This It? Is This ALL? They are also likely to unknowingly get themselves into a mutually vicious cycle of cooling affection.

Typically, this let-down does not last forever. Couples who stick with their marriages not uncommonly find that their spouse actually deserves their affection and appreciation. They do stay in a marriage for “the sake of the children” and find later that it the best thing they could have done for themselves…(cont.)

 

[EasterJoy]

(cont) If you were my best friend and had told me this in person, I’d give you a hug. This is so hard! Then I’d tell you to stick in there, but to find sources of outside support that will help to sustain you through this rough spot. A couple can keep a marriage going through spots in which they aren’t “feeling it.” I would, however, look into the roots of the “problems.” If your husband won’t address that strife with professional help, then you’re going to have to do it without professional help. That can be done.

One thing I would suggest are books based on the research of John Gottman. Above all, identify the following four destructive things, if they exist in your marriage, and attempt to replace them with more constructive strategies:

The Four Horsemen of Marriage Apocalypse

1. Personal Criticism. This refers to negative personal judgments, especially made verbally but even made mentally, couched in extreme or absolute terms. Watch out for “never,” "always” and expressions implying that character traits are immutable—for example, “You never think about anyone but yourself!” or, “You are always so stubborn!”

Constructive alternative: Your husband isn’t going to like “psycho speak”, so I’d suggest to him that you each object to specific behaviors at the earliest appropriate time afterward–appropriate being when you are both cooled down and are not going to embarrass each other in front of others-- and suggest find alternatives jointly. He’s said he wants to be in this for the long term–OK! Look for win-win compromises. “I don’t like it when you do X, but you insist you need to do it. My reason is that is x. What is your reason for wanting to do it, and can we think of something that works better for both of us?”

If he makes an attack on your character, you can say, “Saying I’m stubborn doesn’t accomplish anything. We’re two smart people. Can we think of some way to handle this that takes into account the actual people we are, but that works better? I’m willing if you’re willing, because frankly, I would like to have the kind of marriage that Johnny would actually want to live in the same house with, wouldn’t you?”

1. Contempt. Contempt is treating your partner with disrespect, disgust, condescension, or ridicule. It may involve mean-spirited sarcasm, mockery, eye-rolling, sneering, or name-calling. Contempt can grow over time when a person focuses on the qualities they dislike in their partner and builds up these qualities in their mind.

Constructive alternative: Convince your husband that you cannot raise a child who treats other people kindly unless you treat each other kindly, even when you are mad at each other or don’t really think too much of each other at the moment. If you couch this in terms of how he wants his son to act, he may come around to changing his outside behavior. Funny thing, but changing outward behavior and reaping the rewards has this way of changing inner attitudes.

1. Defensiveness. Defensiveness tends to arise when people feel criticized or attacked; it involves making excuses to avoid taking responsibility, or even deflecting blame onto your partner. If you hear yourself saying “I didn’t do anything wrong,” or blaming your partner for something else after he or she has leveled a complaint against you, ask yourself whether this is really the case. Even if your partner made some mistakes, that doesn’t free you from responsibility for things you could have done differently as well. The problem with defensiveness is that it communicates to your partner that you aren’t really listening to her or taking his concerns seriously. And by introducing new grievances, it can also exacerbate the conflict by making your partner feel attacked and defensive.

Constructive alternative: Take the time to hear your partner out and take responsibility when appropriate. A simple, genuine apology can go a long way.

1. Stonewalling. Stonewalling involves withdrawing, shutting down, and physically and emotionally distancing yourself from your partner, such as giving your partner the “silent treatment” or to abruptly leave without telling your partner where you’re going. Stonewalling is especially destructive to relationships because it can make one’s partner feel abandoned and rejected.

Constructive alternative: It is OK to have a signal for one to let the other know “I need a time out,” so you can avoid saying something rash before you return to the conversation when you’re ready. The main thing is to find a way to get what you need without making it into an attack on your child’s other parent. Again: this is a matter of modelling constructive ways of dealing with conflict to your child.

These are the four things that are most indicative of future divorce. I would convince your spouse that getting rid of any of these four habits is necessary to give your son a peaceful home to grow up in. Address that, and you are far more likely to ride out this rough spot married and eventually happily married. Fail to address these, and you two are going to have a very hard time sticking with your intention to give your child a two-parent home for his entire childhood. Nothing is more practical than that.

More to the point? Teach your son to avoid Gottman’s Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, and you will help him to be more likely to have a lasting marriage and generally lasting relationships himself some day.

 

[white_sheep]

Agreed, but it sounds to me like that is not the only reason the OP is considering leaving

No, being in a loveless marriage wasn’t the only reason given. She also said that they have been having problems. Without more specificity, it is hard to say. There are usually more than a few issues. Sometimes simply prayer and a more detached attitude can fix a lot all at once. Don’t get caught up in the problems, see them as outside yourself.

 

[EasterJoy]

I would leave you with two other pieces of advice:

If you are wrong, apologize, even if you are not the most wrong. I have found that the one who is the most wrong fears shouldering all the blame. If the one who is less wrong is willing to shoulder blame and let the other off the hook, it builds affection.

This requires knowing the difference between an excuse and a apology. An apology puts mitigating circumstances first, then overrides those with an admission of wrong-doing and an apology. An excuse puts the apology first, but then subtracts from it with mitigating circumstances.

Listen to the difference:
It makes me crazy when you do Y, but I should not have reacted the way I did by doing X. I’m sorry. I hope you’ll forgive me.

I’m sorry for reacting the way I did by doing X, I hope you’ll forgive me, but it makes me crazy when you do Y.

Do you see how the first is an apology and the second is something between a weak apology and an excuse? Seeing this can both make your apologies better and help you to accept apologies that suffer from bad grammar. (Yes, let your husband off a little, rather than teaching him directly how his apologies or excuses are “wrong.”…remember, you are looking for a mercy that excuses in the hope of forgiveness without keeping score.)

Have his back. Give up “I told you so.” When you two have an argument and wind up doing things his way, the greatest gift you can give him is to say, “Hey, we had our discussion, we went with your way, and that makes it OUR WAY. Nobody can live with having an “I told you so” every time their decision doesn’t work out. This didn’t work out; let’s do what we can together to cope with it. I still have you, I still have Johnny, that is all that matters.”

Express gratitude often, but consider everything you do without being thanked as something God will reward you for, personally. Now, your husband may say, “Why thank me for mowing the lawn? It is my job!” or “Why tell me I’m a good dad? I’m a good dad for Johnny, not for you!” (hurtful, yes, but he could say that.) You can say, “We are Johnny’s parents. Our lives are going to be consumed with doing our duty. We’re going to be doing things together that I simply could not do by myself. I want you to know you are appreciated, and I want Johnny to learn to appreciate you, too.”

Being around someone who appreciates what you do has a way of making that person someone you want to be around. Taking the time to appreciate someone has this way of increasing your regard and affection for the person. Saying “thank you” and “good job” to your husband more often is a unilateral way of growing your mutual affection, provided you immunize yourself against resentment by preferring to get your mercy for your faults from God Himself as your repayment. Do you see how it works? You can thank without being thanked yourself, because you get paid better when only God notices what you do! (Do not discourage your husband from thanking you, though. Just say, “Oh, you are welcome. For you, I am happy to do it.” He, too, deserves to have the spiritual benefits of expressing gratitude. Give him that, and don’t downplay his appreciation by downplaying what you did.)

If you do these things and your husband leaves you, anyway, you’ll still be in a better situation. The only nod I would give to divorce is to get advice about how to be well-situated legally against a unilateral divorce by your husband. Know how to keep him from getting custody, do that, and he is less likely to jump ship without your consent.

If you do all of this and you two still can’t live with each other, I think you’ll have done what you could.

 

[GreyWings]

This is also deeper than “protecting yourself” or lawyering up. It’s bigger than this. This can be carried through into ones spiritual life and physical life.

How does it feel to know you have “wised up”. Probably never going to let yourself be “vulnerable” again. What a horrible way to live ones life. It doesn’t sound that far from a prison sentence, being overly cautious, jaded, and un trusting. One doesn’t experiance the joy of heaven from living their lives in such a way. Forget what your husband didn’t take from you, it sounds like to me he robbed you of the only priceless thing that actually mattered.

Wow. That was kind of a cold slap. I actually wept reading your last sentence. It’s true, my heart will never be the same. I don’t know if you could say I “wised up.” I am still vulnerable - very vulnerable, actually. I’m in counseling, still trying to get my heart back in pieces. Even though I have a boyfriend (I had to break the engagement) it is hard for me to think of romantic love and marriage after all that hell.

Thank for for your kind words about my courage, though. It wasn’t easy. I had to fight to just survive. God’s love helped the most. God’s love is true. It was Him that helped me see the light and help me get through that, and it is Him who is helping me put back the pieces of my life now.

I guess… I was just projecting my own situation for the OP’s. It was her husband’s excuse that left me upset on the OP’s behalf because my ex said the. exact. same. excuse: counseling is a waste of money, he knew better than any counselor, etc. And then it got even worse. Much worse. My life savings were almost spent. He tried to take everything from me - my pet to my car, things that were mine, not his. He even tried to get me to pay for his college loans.

I was abused by him in many ways. I’m quite petite and he was over 6’0, imagine being tossed and falling, I will never forget those black bruises.

It’s been a lot of heartache. I don’t know what’s it’s like to have true, romantic love or marriage. My marriage was declared null and invalid.

I hope the OP can find love again and happiness in her marriage, and I pray for her.

 

[GreyWings]

odd statement considering the way you criticized GreyWing’s personal testimony

Angie. You’re such a beautiful soul. You kept me going here.

After a particular reply sent my way (above), I’m going to step away from CAF forums for a while. That reply hit a deep spot in my soul and it really hurt.

I hope others have benefitted from some of my help here on the forums. Maybe when ready I will return.

Angie, thank you.