Is it better to stay in a loveless marriage for the sake of your children?

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This is also deeper than “protecting yourself” or lawyering up. It’s bigger than this. This can be carried through into ones spiritual life and physical life.

How does it feel to know you have “wised up”. Probably never going to let yourself be “vulnerable” again. What a horrible way to live ones life. It doesn’t sound that far from a prison sentence, being overly cautious, jaded, and un trusting. One doesn’t experiance the joy of heaven from living their lives in such a way. Forget what your husband didn’t take from you, it sounds like to me he robbed you of the only priceless thing that actually mattered.
You can be invested in your spiritual life and your marriage without being naïve about the reality of unilateral divorce. Parents need to be aware of what sort of seemingly-unrelated things can put them at a disadvantage in child-custody proceedings and a division of marital assets that is not only unwanted but also unjust. How I wish this were not true!

There is a reason that canon law allows separation with the bond remaining, too. Sometimes leaving is the best and most just way to handle these difficult situations.
 
Wow. That was kind of a cold slap. I actually wept reading your last sentence. It’s true, my heart will never be the same. I don’t know if you could say I “wised up.” I am still vulnerable - very vulnerable, actually. I’m in counseling, still trying to get my heart back in pieces. Even though I have a boyfriend (I had to break the engagement) it is hard for me to think of romantic love and marriage after all that hell.

Thank for for your kind words about my courage, though. It wasn’t easy. I had to fight to just survive. God’s love helped the most. God’s love is true. It was Him that helped me see the light and help me get through that, and it is Him who is helping me put back the pieces of my life now.

I guess… I was just projecting my own situation for the OP’s. It was her husband’s excuse that left me upset on the OP’s behalf because my ex said the. exact. same. excuse: counseling is a waste of money, he knew better than any counselor, etc. And then it got even worse. Much worse. My life savings were almost spent. He tried to take everything from me - my pet to my car, things that were mine, not his. He even tried to get me to pay for his college loans.

I was abused by him in many ways. I’m quite petite and he was over 6’0, imagine being tossed and falling, I will never forget those black bruises.

It’s been a lot of heartache. I don’t know what’s it’s like to have true, romantic love or marriage. My marriage was declared null and invalid.

I hope the OP can find love again and happiness in her marriage, and I pray for her.
Staying with a spouse who abuses you very often presents him with a near occasion of sin. I would never tell someone that he or she has a duty to absorb abuse. It is not only dangerous to the abused, but a bad situation for the abuser, as well. It is also considered a form of child abuse to subject a child to witness the abuse of a parent or other family member.
 
One thing I would suggest are books based on the research of John Gottman. Above all, identify the following four destructive things, if they exist in your marriage, and attempt to replace them with more constructive strategies:

The Four Horsemen of Marriage Apocalypse
  1. Personal Criticism. This refers to negative personal judgments, especially made verbally but even made mentally, couched in extreme or absolute terms. Watch out for “never,” "always” and expressions implying that character traits are immutable—for example, “You never think about anyone but yourself!” or, “You are always so stubborn!”
Constructive alternative: Your husband isn’t going to like “psycho speak”, so I’d suggest to him that you each object to specific behaviors at the earliest appropriate time afterward–appropriate being when you are both cooled down and are not going to embarrass each other in front of others-- and suggest find alternatives jointly. He’s said he wants to be in this for the long term–OK! Look for win-win compromises. “I don’t like it when you do X, but you insist you need to do it. My reason is that is x. What is your reason for wanting to do it, and can we think of something that works better for both of us?”

If he makes an attack on your character, you can say, “Saying I’m stubborn doesn’t accomplish anything. We’re two smart people. Can we think of some way to handle this that takes into account the actual people we are, but that works better? I’m willing if you’re willing, because frankly, I would like to have the kind of marriage that Johnny would actually want to live in the same house with, wouldn’t you?”
  1. Contempt. Contempt is treating your partner with disrespect, disgust, condescension, or ridicule. It may involve mean-spirited sarcasm, mockery, eye-rolling, sneering, or name-calling. Contempt can grow over time when a person focuses on the qualities they dislike in their partner and builds up these qualities in their mind.
Constructive alternative: Convince your husband that you cannot raise a child who treats other people kindly unless you treat each other kindly, even when you are mad at each other or don’t really think too much of each other at the moment. If you couch this in terms of how he wants his son to act, he may come around to changing his outside behavior. Funny thing, but changing outward behavior and reaping the rewards has this way of changing inner attitudes.
  1. Defensiveness. Defensiveness tends to arise when people feel criticized or attacked; it involves making excuses to avoid taking responsibility, or even deflecting blame onto your partner. If you hear yourself saying “I didn’t do anything wrong,” or blaming your partner for something else after he or she has leveled a complaint against you, ask yourself whether this is really the case. Even if your partner made some mistakes, that doesn’t free you from responsibility for things you could have done differently as well. The problem with defensiveness is that it communicates to your partner that you aren’t really listening to her or taking his concerns seriously. And by introducing new grievances, it can also exacerbate the conflict by making your partner feel attacked and defensive.
Constructive alternative: Take the time to hear your partner out and take responsibility when appropriate. A simple, genuine apology can go a long way.
  1. Stonewalling. Stonewalling involves withdrawing, shutting down, and physically and emotionally distancing yourself from your partner, such as giving your partner the “silent treatment” or to abruptly leave without telling your partner where you’re going. Stonewalling is especially destructive to relationships because it can make one’s partner feel abandoned and rejected.
Constructive alternative: It is OK to have a signal for one to let the other know “I need a time out,” so you can avoid saying something rash before you return to the conversation when you’re ready. The main thing is to find a way to get what you need without making it into an attack on your child’s other parent. Again: this is a matter of modelling constructive ways of dealing with conflict to your child.

These are the four things that are most indicative of future divorce. I would convince your spouse that getting rid of any of these four habits is necessary to give your son a peaceful home to grow up in. Address that, and you are far more likely to ride out this rough spot married and eventually happily married. Fail to address these, and you two are going to have a very hard time sticking with your intention to give your child a two-parent home for his entire childhood. Nothing is more practical than that.
I would leave you with two other pieces of advice:

If you are wrong, apologize, even if you are not the most wrong. I have found that the one who is the most wrong fears shouldering all the blame. If the one who is less wrong is willing to shoulder blame and let the other off the hook, it builds affection.

This requires knowing the difference between an excuse and a apology. An apology puts mitigating circumstances first, then overrides those with an admission of wrong-doing and an apology. An excuse puts the apology first, but then subtracts from it with mitigating circumstances.

Listen to the difference:
It makes me crazy when you do Y, but I should not have reacted the way I did by doing X. I’m sorry. I hope you’ll forgive me.

I’m sorry for reacting the way I did by doing X, I hope you’ll forgive me, but it makes me crazy when you do Y.

Do you see how the first is an apology and the second is something between a weak apology and an excuse?
These are really good advice, not only for the OP but others as well. Thanks, EasterJoy.
 
I think it depends on the kinds of problems and whether there is anything abusive going on. If the two of you simply don’t feel like you love each other, then try harder. But if there’s bad stuff going on, the child isn’t going to benefit from being in that kind of atmosphere. Despite what anyone says, not all marriages can be saved.
 
Yeah. Wow. It really sounds like a terrible thing! Imagine staying together JUST FOR THE KIDS. Wheew!

DOES MARRIAGE MEAN NOTHING TO YOU???

Why would you ever get married with these ideas? Just live with someone when it comes to your turn - it sounds like it’s all the same to you.

Fran
Actually, I am married and have been for 15+ years, so I’ve already had my turn, but thanks.

Not it isn’t all the same to me, but thanks for judging me based on a few lines of a post.
 
How about making your marriage better…for the sake of the children?

Or doing marriage counseling or reading a marriage book together…for the sake of the children?
 
Go to Amazon and order these books:

The Proper Care and Feeding of Marriage by Dr. Laura Schlessinger
The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Dr. Laura Schlessinger
The Love Dare by Stephen Kendrick and Alex Kendrick

Buy the movie:
Fireproof

and when it’s available on DVD:
War Room

Read the books on the sly away from your husband and do the things suggested. Just don’t let him know why you are doing them.

I’m living proof to tell you that the books work. Love is a choice and is something that you have to keep working at even when you don’t feel like it.

There’s a saying, “When the going gets tough, the tough gets going.” So, get going. You owe it to yourself, your husband, and your children to do everything humanly possibly (except enduring abuse) to put your 200% into resurrecting this marriage. Your husband owes it to you, himself, and your children to do the same.

It’s not going to be easy, but if you both have that mentality, the reward will be well worth it.
 
I haven’t read this book yet, but I’m in a similar situation and this was recommended:

Imperfect Harmony: How to Stay Married for the Sake of Your Children and Still Be Happy
by Joshua Coleman et al.
Link: amzn.com/B0051PZSQK
 
Yes, this is what I meant. If he lied about loving her…if he misrepresented himself in that way and she married him because he said he loved her, but did not…it looks as though it would come under the category of fraud.

.
Let us be real, here. People who say they never loved their spouses are usually lying to themselves. People don’t say, “I want to divorce you, because you lied to me about being in love with me.” No, they say, “I want to divorce you because I lied to you about being in love with you.” Even when wedding-day jitters and the trepidation that often comes to those in our times when making a lifelong commitment is taken into account, the things they say would crush their wedding-day selves just as much as it crushes their spouses. Marital failure is usually not due to Judas’ sin, then, but Peter’s.

Entrapping someone you don’t love into marriage by lying about your feelings for them happens, but it is not nearly so common as lying to yourself later in order to rationalize your desire to abandon promises you made. We say those things to let ourselves off the hook, to tell ourselves why we deserve to indulge in infidelity. This is particularly true when the “gold diggers” are excluded, those people who pursued someone who was very glamorous or very rich, who practiced deceit in order to get the “things” a spouse would bring to a marriage.

Peter later repented, and married people who were once tempted to bolt often repent, too.
 
My husband and I have been having problems and it’s gotten a lot worse. My husband has finally admitted he is with me still only because of our infant son. I also have been feeling the same way but haven’t said it out loud to him. Regardless of who is causing what problems, he has refused counseling because he believes counselors, psychiatrists, psychologists are all crooks and frauds looking for money. I’m afraid of this all leading to separation and divorce, but I’m even more afraid of being stuck in a loveless marriage. He believes that we should still stay together for our sin because he needs both parents, which is a true fact, but am I wrong for thinking separating would be less hurtful for him now and in the long term?
I don’t know if you are Catholic or not, or what you believe in, but for me, I would seek God’s answer to my problem by sincere prayer and persistent petitioning. When one seeks to do His will I am confident that He will answer. To ask in the Name of Jesus is a powerful prayer. Jesus desires the salvation of your entire family, and there is no condition He can’t cure. A family without God can expect conflicts, and break-ups. I think you should ask your husband if he would be willing to give it another try by approaching God in prayer. Does he have any faith? Do you? You both have a deep responsibility for your son, can you do it for his sake?
 
To stay together for the sake of your son means a household where there is always a stressful environment ie let’s wait until junior is in bed before we fight

To stay together because you have a son and want to reconcile is a household where a married couple is trying to love one another. Much better. However if this situation is not feasible, then sadly considering leaving will be a reality. And you can not be the only person with this mentality. Hubby has to be on board.

Angie
I agree with what Angie.says here. If they are going to stay in a marriage.to work on that marriage, to reconcile, to learn to love each other again.and to rescue your relationship, definitely yes. But if you are staying.in.a marriage just for the sake of.it waiting for the day that the child turns 18 to run away from your spouse, bad idea and bad for the child.

My grandparents were on of those cases that they remained in a loveless marriage. My grandfather could not stand my grandmother. My memories.of.their last five years together ate them.ignoring.each other most of the time and whenever my grandfather had to speak to my grandmother he would.curse.and yelled at her. I cannot.recall one.civilized conversation between my grandparents. As a result of that my mother became a lapsed Catholic, and became easy pray for radical feminism. My mother had the idea that marriage is a slavery for women and that women should have children on their own without a father. In fact up until to this day my mother holds the idea that children do much better in a household with a never married mother than with married parents. She sincerely believes I am screwing my kids because I got married. This is because in her brain there is no way a woman can be happy in a marriage.

So I don’t think that staying in a marriage where the parents are going to be arguing, having constant trouble and creating tension in the household is good for.a child, primarily because your child is going to learn that that kind of unhappy relationship is normal.and.is the.norm. that is not.good.

Now.I am not.advocating divorce but if you are staying, stay to work in your marriage and to learn to fall again in love with your spouse again. Stay for the sake of both of you and for the sake of.your love and to find again that love. Don’t stay for.The sake of the kid because that is not going to benefit the kid.
 
Yeah. Wow. It really sounds like a terrible thing! Imagine staying together JUST FOR THE KIDS. Wheew!

DOES MARRIAGE MEAN NOTHING TO YOU???

Why would you ever get married with these ideas? Just live with someone when it comes to your turn - it sounds like it’s all the same to you.

Fran
Yes staying together just for the sake of.The kids is a bad thing because what is going to happen is that the parents are going to.start treating.each other.badly, disrespecting each other, there is going to be constant arguments and stress in the house, and the parents are going to have an extremely dysfunctional.relationship. So what child.is going.to.learn? That screaming at your spouse is perfectly ok, that disrespecting.your spouse is ok and that marriage equals anything but love. And the worst part is that odds are that the kid is going to reflect that behavior on future relationships.
 
I haven’t read this book yet, but I’m in a similar situation and this was recommended:

Imperfect Harmony: How to Stay Married for the Sake of Your Children and Still Be Happy
by Joshua Coleman et al.
Link: amzn.com/B0051PZSQK
I just purchased this in paperback for a whole $4.00. Thank you!! I’m pretty much in a loveless marriage, and my husband has said when our youngest turns 17 (in two years - not sure why he picked that milestone, since he’ll still be in high school), he’s going to leave. 😦 Nothing I do/say/pray has made a difference, so maybe this will at least help me to deal with it. I noted the chapter on depression in marriage (which he has, since childhood), so I’m hoping the book will give me $4.00 worth of insight on that. 🙂
 
Robinia:
Your husband shows some loving concern for his son by suggesting you and he should stay together for his sake, it is true the child needs his parents. You have fallen into a very common situation. Boy is attracted to girl, possibly attracted by physical appearances, maybe by personality traits as well. They become infatuated with each other, then become physically intimate with each other, and then pregnancy. I noticed you mentioned sin, pregnancy before marriage? This marriage started out wrong and with it came a certain immaturity, and illusion of love, real love, perhaps a Platonic idea of love. Marriage can be a real eye opener, we find chinks in our armor. When faced with the reality of the responsibilities of marriage, we become disillusioned, we find our partner is very fallible, maybe even very unpleasant, and he with you. Marriage was instituted by Jesus Christ. It is a vocation designed to bring out the best in you, to perfect you, for your happiness. It was never intended for us to quit when the going gets rough, as it will at times, but to meet the challenge. This can only be done with the grace of God. People talk all around the problem but don’t really nail it. When trouble comes, and it will as many will attest to, we are supposed to meet the challenge, and be determined to meet the challenge. This takes maturity to understand, and marriage must be based on this maturity The challenge can not be met adequately without the grace of God. There must be unconditional love, forgiveness, bearing with one anothers faults, and even sins. There must be the acceptance of responsibilities. In a Christians marriage there must be prayer and sacrifice centered around God and family. There are many evils in society that threaten the sanctity of marriage. When this becomes frequent, as it exists in our day and time, this weakens the family, and consequently the whole country. Most of all it brings much unhappiness to all involved, contrary to God’s desire for us. I noticed you gave no (name removed by moderator)ut to many suggestions, to clarify your position or thoughts, so I will pray as many others will that God guides you in your decisions.
 
Actually, I am married and have been for 15+ years, so I’ve already had my turn, but thanks.

Not it isn’t all the same to me, but thanks for judging me based on a few lines of a post.
First of all, this is a thread and anyone can state their opinion. I think I made mine pretty clear - I don’t know you and it wasn’t meant for you personally.

I consider myself to be a nice person. I’m not judging you personally. But listen to what you said:

IT’S NOT WORTH IT FOR A MARRIED COUPLE TO STAY TOGETHER FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN.

Could you, like, give me some BETTER reasons why a couple should stay together??

I could use the enlightening. I’m afraid I feel very strongly about not harming children once they’re in the world.

Fran
 
Robinia:
Your husband shows some loving concern for his son by suggesting you and he should stay together for his sake, it is true the child needs his parents. You have fallen into a very common situation. Boy is attracted to girl, possibly attracted by physical appearances, maybe by personality traits as well. They become infatuated with each other, then become physically intimate with each other, and then pregnancy. I noticed you mentioned sin, pregnancy before marriage? This marriage started out wrong and with it came a certain immaturity, and illusion of love, real love, perhaps a Platonic idea of love. Marriage can be a real eye opener, we find chinks in our armor. When faced with the reality of the responsibilities of marriage, we become disillusioned, we find our partner is very fallible, maybe even very unpleasant, and he with you. Marriage was instituted by Jesus Christ. It is a vocation designed to bring out the best in you, to perfect you, for your happiness. It was never intended for us to quit when the going gets rough, as it will at times, but to meet the challenge. This can only be done with the grace of God. People talk all around the problem but don’t really nail it. When trouble comes, and it will as many will attest to, we are supposed to meet the challenge, and be determined to meet the challenge. This takes maturity to understand, and marriage must be based on this maturity The challenge can not be met adequately without the grace of God. There must be unconditional love, forgiveness, bearing with one anothers faults, and even sins. There must be the acceptance of responsibilities. In a Christians marriage there must be prayer and sacrifice centered around God and family. There are many evils in society that threaten the sanctity of marriage. When this becomes frequent, as it exists in our day and time, this weakens the family, and consequently the whole country. Most of all it brings much unhappiness to all involved, contrary to God’s desire for us. I noticed you gave no (name removed by moderator)ut to many suggestions, to clarify your position or thoughts, so I will pray as many others will that God guides you in your decisions.
Well put ynotzap!

And especially when a couple has put children into this world who need a lot of love and caring and support.

Without, I hope, creating too much of a fuss, I’d just like to say that even without God people can still be mature and have a good marriage and do all of the things you say above. Of course, God helps!

Fran
 
Yes staying together just for the sake of.The kids is a bad thing because what is going to happen is that the parents are going to.start treating.each other.badly, disrespecting each other, there is going to be constant arguments and stress in the house, and the parents are going to have an extremely dysfunctional.relationship. So what child.is going.to.learn? That screaming at your spouse is perfectly ok, that disrespecting.your spouse is ok and that marriage equals anything but love. And the worst part is that odds are that the kid is going to reflect that behavior on future relationships.
Is this a script for a movie?

I had to smile all the way through!

How do YOU know what is going to happen? Does this happen in EVERY marriage that stays together just for the kids?

Fran
 
First of all, this is a thread and anyone can state their opinion. I think I made mine pretty clear - I don’t know you and it wasn’t meant for you personally.

I consider myself to be a nice person. I’m not judging you personally. But listen to what you said:

IT’S NOT WORTH IT FOR A MARRIED COUPLE TO STAY TOGETHER FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN.

Could you, like, give me some BETTER reasons why a couple should stay together??

I could use the enlightening. I’m afraid I feel very strongly about not harming children once they’re in the world.

Fran
Because staying together could be more harmful for the children. Isn’t it better for the parents to have a functional relationship apart than a dysfunctional relationship together? Constant arguing is not a healthy way to grow up.

You are correct in that you try not to harm the children, which sometimes means taking the least harmful route of two imperfect roads.

And, in fact, staying married for the sake of children is not a reason to stay married since pregnancy is not a reason to GET married. In fact, the church does not allow it. This is with good reason.
 
This.

Also, kids can pick up on things that are going on, even if it isn’t happening right in front of them. Your child will know that the two of you aren’t getting along, even though it may not be said. Your tone of voice, your body language, demeanor, etc. towards each other will speak volumes.

I know it is not Catholic to divorce, but if you are both only staying for the kid, that doesn’t sound good.

Also, if you just stay together for your child, your child will grow up to think that it is okay to do just that if/when they get married. If they have problems, they may just stay with their spouse just for the kids, like his parents did.
Two points:
  1. If you are going to stay together, stay together. Staying in the same house and allowing yourself to express contempt, negativity, personal attacks, or coldness towards your child’s parent (or parental figure) cannot be defended as being “for the child,” because treating a child’s parent like that is a personal affront to the child. It is child abuse to force a child to watch his or her parent being abused. If you are “staying together,” you had better be treating each other with respect and some measure of affection, or you will be fooling no one but yourself, and least of all your child.
  2. It is fine for a child to think that wanting to be a good parent was the deciding factor for why his or her parents kept trying to make a difficult attempt at marriage work. Ideally, a couple would work just as hard at a marriage that is childless as one with children, because their vows are their vows before God. In reality, seeing that your parents were willing to conscientiously make an effort at something difficult for them but beneficial to the you is not a bad example at all. There are many couples who were married until death because they rode a rough spot through on account of their children. Whatever gets the plane onto the runway, that works.
In short: You owe it to your marriage vows to stay together if the common conjugal life is attainable with some measure of peace and mutual respect. You owe it to your children to try to provide a stable home for the child. You owe it to everyone, however, to make an honest effort that you chose freely, not a passive-aggressive “effort” that is really a transparent show of self-martyrdom that you try to pretend was inflicted on you by someone else. Do not inflict a counter-productive “effort” onto your child and then turn around and blame your child because you all had to live through that predictable plane crash! That is a terrible thing to do to your child, yes. Throwing your hands up and refusing to make an honest try is not very much better, but it is better than a nasty “try.”

I do not mean to imply that parents who split “refused to make an honest effort.” Parents may legitimately discern that the common conjugal life is beyond their mutual capacity, even if it is for reasons that do not render their vows invalid. I do mean to say that when canon law says it is permissible for a couple to split because life is “too difficult,” that really means honestly and truly a situation with too many difficulties to be overcome, regardless of effort.
 
Because staying together could be more harmful for the children. Isn’t it better for the parents to have a functional relationship apart than a dysfunctional relationship together? Constant arguing is not a healthy way to grow up.

You are correct in that you try not to harm the children, which sometimes means taking the least harmful route of two imperfect roads.

And, in fact, staying married for the sake of children is not a reason to stay married since pregnancy is not a reason to GET married. In fact, the church does not allow it. This is with good reason.
You owe it to yourself to learn how to disagree without destructive arguing or to make an effort at learning how that shows that your communication skills and generosity are not the problem. Even if you don’t remain in the same house, you are still going to be parenting the same children together! You cannot assume that your lack of a working relationship will not harm your children just because you went to the government and got divorce papers!

The Church does not allow people to give their consent for marriage under duress. Once that free promise is made, however, there is no prohibition on duress being felt by someone who is only keeping promises that were freely made. After all, the promise to stay together “for better or worse” is an admission that periods that require endurance are a foreseeable possibility in any marriage. If we are supposed to endure “duress” that drives us apart, why would we object to “duress” that pushes us* towards* keeping our vows?

In other words: If your children matter to you, then whether you divorce or not you will suck it up and learn to get along with your child’s other parent to the best of your ability, showing that parent the respect you want your child to feel his or her parents deserve simply by being *his or her *parents.
 
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